Requesting guidance

[jonathon]

Major Frustration.

1. There's no I to find, right? What gets frustrated is my emotions.
2. It's not feeling, it's thought.
3. I don't know...thought.

[yuvi]

There's no I to find, right? What gets frustrated is my emotions.

What owns these emotions?

I don't know...thought

Take time until there is clarity. 'Don't know' is just a thought that wants to quickly wind up things due to frustration. "Look" for that which thinks this thought. Take time, until there is an answer

[jonathon]

What owns these emotions?

The mind. Emotions are a result of ideas. Ideas are in the mind.

"Look" for that which thinks this thought. Take time, until there is an answer

The mind. I have the thought that I am not finding what I think I should find.

3. When looking for an "I", what is looking?

The mind. There is the thought of the meaning of the question, that I don't know the answer, the intention/will power to figure it out, the answer of "the mind".

[yuvi]

Ideas are in the mind

‘Mind’ is not a container. There is no “in” the mind, as much as “out” of mind.
In direct experience, there is no ‘mind’. There is only a seamless experience of ever-present now. Thoughts label the experience - divides experience 'in/out' ('me' inside body looking 'outside')
Before thoughts label an experience, can ‘mind’ be experienced now?
Is there an "I" in the middle of THIS NOWNESS?

Look" for that which thinks this thought. Take time, until there is an answer

I have the thought that I am not finding what I think I should find.

“What” has a thought that “it” is not finding what “it” thinks “it” should find?
Leave no stones unturned. Answer lies in honest inquiry and careful dissection of thought labels

[jonathon]

‘Mind’ is not a container. There is no “in” the mind, as much as “out” of mind.
In direct experience, there is no ‘mind’. There is only a seamless experience of ever-present now. Thoughts label the experience - divides experience 'in/out' ('me' inside body looking 'outside')
Before thoughts label an experience, can ‘mind’ be experienced now?
Is there an "I" in the middle of THIS NOWNESS?

No.
No.

“What” has a thought that “it” is not finding what “it” thinks “it” should find?
Leave no stones unturned. Answer lies in honest inquiry and careful dissection of thought labels

Perception.

[yuvi]

Is there only perception, or a 'perceiver' of perception?

Is there an "I" in the middle of THIS NOWNESS?

No.

Right now, these words on the screen are being seen. Examine the actual experience right now.
Is there a 'seer' that 'sees' the screen?

[jonathon]

Is there only perception, or a 'perceiver' of perception?

There's perception and the label that it's me.

Right now, these words on the screen are being seen. Examine the actual experience right now.
Is there a 'seer' that 'sees' the screen?

No. The 'seer' is a label that get's applied after the seeing.

[yuvi]

Hi, will reply tomorrow.

[yuvi]

let’s do a little exercise.

Take a walk. While you walk, pay close attention to the movement of legs and body. As you walk, try to ‘slow’ down the pace and alternate it with ‘brisk’ walk. Also, move a little ‘left’ and alternate with moving little ‘right’ as you walk. Pay close attention when all these movements occurs.

Remember, when you pause to ‘think’ who controlled these movements, there will be an instant ‘retrospective thought’ that labels the movements ‘controlled’ by ‘Jonathon.’ But remember, those retrospective thoughts are just ‘thoughts arising now’ pointing toward a past event - actual movement. That’s just label that does not point to reality.

So, LOOK at the actual experience during the exercise, and look for how the decisions are made, and answer these:
1. Is there an “I” that decides which leg to move first, and which leg should follow?
2. When there is a stone or a tree on the way, is there a ‘controller’ that decides the body to move left or right?
3. Was there an “I” that decided to walk? When you stop walking, was there a controller that decided to ‘stop’ walking?

[jonathon]

I will investigate the above on my daily walk tomorrow.

[jonathon]

let’s do a little exercise.

Take a walk. While you walk, pay close attention to the movement of legs and body. As you walk, try to ‘slow’ down the pace and alternate it with ‘brisk’ walk. Also, move a little ‘left’ and alternate with moving little ‘right’ as you walk. Pay close attention when all these movements occurs.

Remember, when you pause to ‘think’ who controlled these movements, there will be an instant ‘retrospective thought’ that labels the movements ‘controlled’ by ‘Jonathon.’ But remember, those retrospective thoughts are just ‘thoughts arising now’ pointing toward a past event - actual movement. That’s just label that does not point to reality.

So, LOOK at the actual experience during the exercise, and look for how the decisions are made, and answer these:
1. Is there an “I” that decides which leg to move first, and which leg should follow?
2. When there is a stone or a tree on the way, is there a ‘controller’ that decides the body to move left or right?
3. Was there an “I” that decided to walk? When you stop walking, was there a controller that decided to ‘stop’ walking?

1. No.
2. There is the thought that I am in control and choose to go left or right. This thought seemed true.
3. There was a thought, that was irrefutable, that I was in control of stopping/starting, go faster/slower.

[yuvi]

is there a ‘controller’ that decides the body to move left or right?

There is the thought that I am in control and choose to go left or right. This thought seemed true.

There is a thought. Agreed. But it seems true to what? Is there a "thinker" in actual experience?

Was there an “I” that decided to walk? When you stop walking, was there a controller that decided to ‘stop’ walking?

There was a thought, that was irrefutable, that I was in control of stopping/starting, go faster/slower.

There was a thought, agreed. Thought is real as an arising thought, because it is experienced (just like sight, sound, etc). So, it is irrefutable that a thought is experienced.
But is the content of the thought real? Does the thought point to reality of experience? Thought came "after" the experience claiming it was 'me' that controlled movements. But was there an "I" that was in control in actual experience?

[jonathon]

There's no thinker. It seemed true to judgement/intellect.

The premises, content seemed irrefutable. The thought is an idea about reality.
Was there an I in control? When I ask myself this I get the thought that no, there's only the story that "I" am in control.

[yuvi]

When I ask myself this I get the thought that no, there's only the story that "I" am in control.

That's another thought.
Is there a controller in actual experience?
Is there a decider in actual experience?

There's no thinker

If there is no 'thinker' of thoughts, is there freewill?

[jonathon]

That's another thought.
Is there a controller in actual experience?
Is there a decider in actual experience?

No.
No.

If there is no 'thinker' of thoughts, is there freewill?

No.