hello to all

[lucid365]

Ok I've reread the 18 is nots, I feel calm and understand them all except number 11,I feel confused when I read number eleven,my expectation which is left is to see through the illusion of a self so that it will soften my attachment to an 'i' 'ego' belief in a self

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[ElPortal]

Ok Paul

Please report on the exact sensations of 'confused' when you re-read that number 11. Note the story, then notice the sensations: location, characteristics, movement, any other features. Welcome the sensation (like a dear friend) to stay as long as it stays, move on when it moves on.

[lucid365]

Well I'm feeling sensations all over body,feeling alive,feeling confused because it feels like I need to end the ego and self and 'I' and see through the illusion of a self ego and I

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[ElPortal]

Hi Paul

Thanks for that report of sensations: a real breakthrough to speak of NOW sensations rather than conceptual ideas. This can be MUCH expanded upon. eg report on the observed thought responses to the questions, sure, but also on the actual 'physical' sensations which arise on reading and considering the questions. These are just as much part of this. Go to them in detail, including location, shape, movement, temperature, description, how they seem to move on, any stories they seem to present etc. These are very much part of our investigation, even though, mind-wise, they may not seem relevant. So please practise it in your next response, reporting not only what mental response comes up, but any sensations and physical reactions whether they be gentle or strong, whether they seem positive or negative. ok?

Ok so at some points in this dialogue so far you have spoken of having seen through the illusion of a separate self, and then at others (eg this last response) you speak of needing to end the ego/self/'I'.

it feels like I need to end the ego and self and 'I' and see through the illusion of a self ego and I

So first we'll need to establish what this ego/self/"I" is, and who/what could end it. Let's look into this:-

1. When the 'feeling sensations all over the body, feeling alive' is noticed, does this make 'me/I/ego'? What would it take for that feeling to make a 'self'?
Whenever (so far) we do E-ing and T-ing experience, I don't see a 'me' being felt, nor an ego being described in your report.
2. Please identify what you mean by the ego, the self and 'I'. How is it felt, how is it known right now? Is it a belief or thought structure?

Again a reminder not just to respond quickly with initial thoughts, but to spend time over the whole sensation thing, along with observing the thought responsses, mulling over the questions and seeing what presents itself. Then report back honestly.

Cheers

Mark

[lucid365]

1. Yeah it give the impression of a me,I ego that's empty of being real
well the feeling give an impression of a self,even if false
2.the ego is a false personality conception made up by the mind and thoughts,it's not real so can't be felt or known it's just the thoughts body and conceptual thinking fool us into thinking we are a individual,it can't be known,it's a belief and thought structure

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[ElPortal]

Hi Paul

Again, quite a mindy, concepty answer, it seems. What about this part?

Thanks for that report of sensations: a real breakthrough to speak of NOW sensations rather than conceptual ideas. This can be MUCH expanded upon. eg report on the observed thought responses to the questions, sure, but also on the actual 'physical' sensations which arise on reading and considering the questions. These are just as much part of this. Go to them in detail, including location, shape, movement, temperature, description, how they seem to move on, any stories they seem to present etc. These are very much part of our investigation, even though, mind-wise, they may not seem relevant. So please practise it in your next response, reporting not only what mental response comes up, but any sensations and physical reactions whether they be gentle or strong, whether they seem positive or negative. ok?

What about the actual sensations which come up when the questions are considered?

Cheers

Mark

[lucid365]

Just ordinary sensations all over my body,My body feels normal,nothing happens when reading the questions,just feel a sinking feeling of disappointment for nearly all the questions lol

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[ElPortal]

Ok Paul,

So tell me about this disappointment... and it's sinking feeling.

Cheers

Mark

[lucid365]

Well I suppose it's all my expectations,but I've accepted that the expecting will not be met and I'm ready to look from direct experience and drop the expectations,I guess even if the notions and concepts are dropped the emotions can still remain and linger

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[lucid365]

Yeah it feels like a depressed sinking feeling with a dash of dread,felt it on my stomach

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[ElPortal]

These are pretty minimalistic responses, Paul.

ElPortal: Thanks for that report of sensations: a real breakthrough to speak of NOW sensations rather than conceptual ideas. This can be MUCH expanded upon. eg report on the observed thought responses to the questions, sure, but also on the actual 'physical' sensations which arise on reading and considering the questions. These are just as much part of this. Go to them in detail, including location, shape, movement, temperature, description, how they seem to move on, any stories they seem to present etc. These are very much part of our investigation, even though, mind-wise, they may not seem relevant. So please practise it in your next response, reporting not only what mental response comes up, but any sensations and physical reactions whether they be gentle or strong, whether they seem positive or negative. ok?

Paul: Yeah it feels like a depressed sinking feeling with a dash of dread,felt it on my stomach

Can you actually put this into practice. Take time, spend time with it, welcoming it as a friend. What is its story of dread, and the claimed origin of the depressed sinking feeling.

Then notice the actual physical sensations in detail, as described above. Report back on them. Welcome them until they pass. Notice when they pass. Report back.

No quick-fire answers please, Paul. Write back when you have spent time with each step of this.

Cheers

Mark

[ElPortal]

PS ok, hadn't caught the first of those two posts you sent. Still, if you can follow the steps in my post (preceding this one) that will be good.

Cheers

Mark

[lucid365]

I can't do it,it's to hard

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[ElPortal]

No it's not.
Stop pushing your vegetables around the plate, and have a go at it!

[lucid365]

Can we go down a different route I don't understand how I can do your instructions

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