Ruby 88 Looking for a guide

[Carrie]

Hello Ruby,

Thank you for your answers...

this locus of experience that is me - is in awareness. or is awareness

So, 'you' are awareness or in awareness...? Let's look at this....

Are you 'awareness' or 'in awareness'.....? or is awareness just happening?

Does seeing, hearing, touching etc. happen in awareness, with awareness or as awareness?

Is there such a thing as “awareness in which things appear”? Where is the division between awareness and appearances? (appearances here means all that is seen/heard/felt/smelt/thought)

I look forward to your answers!

warm wishes,

Carrie

[Ruby88]

Hi Carrie, thanks for the comments and questions. I am sorry, there is no way I can answer those today, but I do have some time tomorrow that I can give to Looking - so I will post tomorrow. best wishes Ruby

[Ruby88]

Hello Ruby,

Thank you for your answers...

this locus of experience that is me - is in awareness. or is awareness

So, 'you' are awareness or in awareness...? Let's look at this....

Are you 'awareness' or 'in awareness'.....? or is awareness just happening?

Does seeing, hearing, touching etc. happen in awareness, with awareness or as awareness?

Is there such a thing as “awareness in which things appear”? Where is the division between awareness and appearances? (appearances here means all that is seen/heard/felt/smelt/thought)

I look forward to your answers!

warm wishes,

Carrie

[Ruby88]

Hi Carrie, I am so sorry I don't seem to have worked out the quote function, - I have tried highlighting text, pressing the quote function, (as above) but can't quite see how that becomes part of my reply. Oh dear.

I am looking into 'this locus of experience that is me' and i seem to be a bit fixated on it! I have direct experience of sensations arising with the senses - touch, sound and visual mainly, and that being boundaryless as i have written, but I seem to keep coming back to a sense of a locus of experience that is 'me' - so i am looking into that, and experience some fear - if that is not there, i don't exist. I won't exist. Also I have an attitude that I shouldn't be thinking but I went back to the guidelines where you say direct experience is sensations and observed thoughts -

I am also used to doing mindfulness practice with instruction to include everything WITHIN awareness. So looking into these thoughts, experiences.

So I am looking into the sensations of fear, which arises both as a sensation and as a thought - I won't exist ' with experience of no boundary.

So the question am 'I' awareness or in awareness or is awareness just happening - is apposite. 'This locus of experience which is me is in awareness' - i can feel i am still hanging onto a container. I feel I am at the edge of something, but there is fear - no locus, no container, no me!

I am awareness, makes awareness an I, a thing, It is a kind of bigger 'I'!

breathing into my experience - now, many sensations, sounds, sights, touch, all arising, passing, thoughts, -
So 'awareness in which things appear' - is making a thing, a container, of awareness, -

No edges, no boundary, no division. sensations/awareness happening all the time, along with thoughts of 'me', 'locus', 'container'.

I feel I glimpse something and then it slips away. I am open, experiencing, then fixing.

I guess the illusion of self is a deep habit, and I need more help to look more directly.

Thank you.

[Carrie]

Hello Ruby,

"I am looking into 'this locus of experience that is me' and i seem to be a bit fixated on it"

Yes! This fixation is the illusion that self exists... Fixation and attachment to self are a lifelong habit and that's what this process is 'undoing'... Hence the fear...

As you say:

"I guess the illusion of self is a deep habit, and I need more help to look more directly"

You are doing great with your looking and yes, my job is to keep guiding you to do just that.

"So I am looking into the sensations of fear, which arises both as a sensation and as a thought - I won't exist ' with experience of no boundary"

Yes, good... looking at the fear all that can be found is a combination of thought and sensation!

I seem to keep coming back to a sense of a locus of experience that is 'me' - so i am looking into that, and experience some fear...

... i can feel i am still hanging onto a container. I feel I am at the edge of something, but there is fear - no locus, no container, no me!"...

....'I feel I glimpse something and then it slips away. I am open, experiencing, then fixing.

Yes... There is fear that comes with the fixation and there is openness with direct experience...

So, am i right in understanding that when you are resting in here and now experience of sensations there is what you call 'boundarylessness' and this is no-self? And when there is fixation on 'a locus that is me' there is fear?

There is no more a 'me' in fixation than in openness...LOOK and see if the 'me' that is there in fixation can be found?

"So 'awareness in which things appear' - is making a thing, a container, of awareness"

Yes, this is reifying awareness and then there is the identification of it with 'me'... 'I am awareness'... Is this true? Have a look... Can this 'i' be found? What is it?

I have an attitude that I shouldn't be thinking but I went back to the guidelines where you say direct experience is sensations and observed thoughts

Thinking is part of the flow of experience...

Let's look at thoughts:

Can a thought think?
Can you stop a thought from coming?
Can you choose what thought to think?

Love, Carrie x

[Ruby88]

Hi, Carrie, thanks so much for your reply, which I found so helpful and encouraging - and challenging as well. You were up late!

So - when I am resting in the here and now experience of sensations there is 'boundarylessness' and this is no self? and when there is fixation on a 'locus that is me' there is fear.

Not quite - i looked again - There is resting in the here and now in sensations that have no edge/boundary and this is no-self - Yes. Tension in the stomach begins, thoughts arise - but there must be a locus - which is me - so the fear begins as a sensation, then thoughts, then fixation on the idea of a locus. Thoughts of - it's common sense, I am not an undifferentiated blob.

Look and see if the 'me' that is there in fixation can be found. No, those above thoughts just arise, and they pass, and other sensations arise and pass. Sensations arise and pass, whether I experience openness or fixation!

I am awareness - is this true, can this I be found, what is it. No it is not true, it's just a thought, making awareness a kind of bigger 'I' - There is no separate I outside of awareness.

Can a thought think? No, that's a bit like trying to look at your own eyeball or something.

Can you stop a thought from coming? - only a wee bit -well thought arises, and I can try to force it away - but that doesn't really work for long - thoughts keep arising,

Can you choose what thought to think? - only a bit, I can choose to think about this question. then other thoughts arise, unbidden.

Got very fascinated in wondering, what is a thought? where do they come from and where do they go? More looking into that tomorrow.

[Ruby88]

Hi, Carrie, not heard from you, is everything ok. Hope to hear from you tomorrow. take care, Ruby

[Carrie]

Hello Ruby,

Sorry, this is very late... it's been a long full day. I guess you're already tucked up in bed?!

Tension in the stomach begins, thoughts arise - but there must be a locus - which is me - so the fear begins as a sensation, then thoughts, then fixation on the idea of a locus. Thoughts of - it's common sense, I am not an undifferentiated blob.

Look and see if the 'me' that is there in fixation can be found.

No, those above thoughts just arise, and they pass, and other sensations arise and pass. Sensations arise and pass, whether I experience openness or fixation!

This is all wonderful... You can see that the fixation and the fear consist of sensations and thoughts that arise and pass and here is no self. You are also seen that openness also consists in thoughts and sensations arising and passing and this is also no-self... Wonderful!

I am awareness - is this true, can this I be found, what is it

. No it is not true, it's just a thought, making awareness a kind of bigger 'I' - There is no separate I outside of awareness.

Yes!

Can you stop a thought from coming?

- only a wee bit -well thought arises, and I can try to force it away - but that doesn't really work for long - thoughts keep arising,

Can you choose what thought to think?

- only a bit, I can choose to think about this question. then other thoughts arise, unbidden

This is great! You can see that thoughts do their own thing whatever you 'try' or 'choose'...

Let's look a bit closer at 'trying' and 'choosing'....

How does choosing happen?

For example taking a blue pen rather than a black pen...? Or a coffee rather than a tea?

Look into direct experience at how one action happens rather than another and report back.

C xx

[Ruby88]

Hi Carrie. Glad you are ok, yes I was tucked up in bed, not least because I have come down with a cold, :-(. So that is where I have spent most of today, with lots of snoozing and not a lot of looking!

I did explore fear a bit more, as fear is arising when I look. I can experience the sensations, but thoughts arise, still around having a locus of experience, though I have been looking at thoughts, what is a thought, where do they come from etc, and experience a stream of thoughts. And am noticing that I make a 'thing' of the stream! A shift from space/locus to stream/time! A hanging onto something. Looking into the fear, - a desire for security. Using your previous questions again - can I find a 'me' in the fixation, or in the stream. Or in the desire for security?

No, there is no entity having those experiences. But I still feel I haven't quite 'got it'! So there is expectation, of how it will be to have got it, of some clarity.

Onto choosing - How does choosing happen! - I don't really know! I noticed this morning, that I suddenly got out of bed. I didn't need to go to the bathroom or eat, or be anywhere, I just got up. And a bit later I went back to bed, in the same way. I pretty much always have coffee with breakfast, but yesterday I made myself a cup of tea. I can think, oh I will do so and so, and then not do it or do something different. Just now I was rubbing my chest, but I didn't think about doing that. My chest is sore. Then I stopped. So choosing happens, sometimes habit driven, I always shower in the morning. There isn't a separate chooser entity sitting in my head like in a control tower.

What about big decisions- to move house, say, where you make lists of pros and cons. That feels a bit abstract, at the moment. I recently booked a holiday did research, chose a place - is that different.

Anyway you asked me to look in direct experience at how one action happens rather than another. I rubbed my chest not scratched my ear. I don't know how to answer the how, - my left hand rubbed my chest, - one part of my body responding to another? Haha, now having written the above I have a thought about scratching my ear! But I don't!

That's all I can manage today. Thanks for 'listening'. Love Ruby

[Carrie]

Hi Ruby,

thank you for your post. You're doing some really good looking. And...

No, there is no entity having those experiences. But I still feel I haven't quite 'got it'! So there is expectation, of how it will be to have got it, of some clarity

What are the ingredients of expectation? What's it made up of?

Love, Carrie x

[Ruby88]

What are the ingredients of expectation? What's it made up of?

Hi, Carrie my cold is worse so I need to do lots of sleeping again today. Yes, expectations seem to have arisen with a vengeance, with some doubt, - I have been looking for over a week, and see there is no owner, chooser that is separate, I look deeply, then thoughts of I and me arise, locus and streams, and I think I should have got it by now, it feels close, and from my reading of the site, I read of a 'change in perspective' I will know, for myself, I feel close and yet maybe my seeings are just intellectual, I am not doing it right, not intensely enough. I am aware that for some folk it is gentle for others a big shift. So obviously all sorts of things in here, expectations, assumptions, wantings, belief that things should be a certain way. Not happening in that way so disappointment and frustration, fear of failure.

What is it/expectation, made up or? THOUGHTS, those are all thoughts, just thoughts, 'I' thoughts, - I should, I need, I want, I can't. I got caught in the content. What a drama! Exhausting. Feel I need to look intensely into direct experience and relax at the same time.

Thoughts can be so seductive, drawing me into their story. relax and look- now - sky, trees, breeze, sounds, light, touch, tapping the iPad, breath, touch, coughing, shapes, sensations of touch, everything is happening whether 'I' make a big fuss or not! But big fusses/dramas arise.

Best wishes, Ruby

[Carrie]

Hello Ruby,

Sorry to hear you're Ill with a cold.

As you say expectations are coming in with a vengeance...

I think I should have got it by now... I will know, for myself.... I am not doing it right... things should be a certain way...

It's good, they are seen as all thoughts....

those are all thoughts, just thoughts, 'I' thoughts

And the thoughts are believed in...

Thoughts can be so seductive, drawing me into their story

Have a look.... What's happening here?
Can a thought seduce you and draw you in?
Can a thought do anything?

C x

[Carrie]

Dear Ruby,

Just a bit more on expectation...

There's a sense in what you write that 'something' is being sought after in this process... That something will be achieved .... That there is 'somebody' who will 'get it'....

How would it be to consider that whether the illusion is seen or not there is still the flow of experience including the thoughts and story of I ? Should it be different to that?

Love Carrie x




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[Ruby88]

Hi, Carrie thanks for your responses and questions, and for the extra bit on expectations. I am pretty ill today, so I will leave answering until tomorrow. There was a veritable tsunamiof thoughts wasn't there, I blame it on the fever! :-)
best wishes to you, and hope that you are well, and get back to you tomorrow.

[Ruby88]

Hi, Carrie, I am still ill, probably a chest infection, but I have remembered when awake, sometimes, to look into my experience.

Have a look.... What's happening here?
Can a thought seduce you and draw you in?
Can a thought do anything?

Thought is just thought, so it can't do anything, it is part of a flow. Thoughts come with stories, from habits, and those stories and habits are temporarily believed which feels different from being with direct experience – narrower. There is no 'I' separate and fixed that can get lost in thought.
Thought can't do anything, if noticed as part of the flow of experience, otherwise thoughts are believed in – I can't do this' etc, and effect the mind and cause suffering.


Just a bit more on expectation...

There's a sense in what you write that 'something' is being sought after in this process... That something will be achieved .... That there is 'somebody' who will 'get it'....

How would it be to consider that whether the illusion is seen or not there is still the flow of experience including the thoughts and story of I ? Should it be different to that?

Those expectations arose pretty strongly – a manifestation of resistance? But also they passed -

Habit, expectation, belief, come intertwined and part of the 'I', - separation,- achievement by 'somebody'. Looking, -there is only flow which happens whether such 'I' thoughts arise and are identified with or not. So no it 'shouldn't be different from there still being the flow whether the illusion is seen or not, including the thoughts and the story of I.'

I feel there has been a shift – during sleeping and waking, when awake I have Looked, when I have remembered. I fell into a brief dream – there was a part bench, in the park, a sense of aliveness, presence, even focus, but no-one was sitting there, the bench was empty – nor did it feel that the bench was an entity/self either. Expectations have dropped away and I feel freer.

With love, Ruby