Ready to go

[philkingston]

Hi JV,

Where is 'self' in the arising and passing of experience?

There is none, when experience is seen like this.

Can you find, a “self” that is the ‘experiencer’?

Yes, in the still insistent inner voice. I know intellectually that there isn't a self but this isn't strong enough to have cut through the assumption in the way you've previously suggested, like seeing thought Santa or the world being round.

I have to say the same for the next three questions which have all been examined individually but today I can't honestly say the self assumed to do these things has been seen through.

Or a “self” that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a “self” that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a “self” that ‘does the thinking’?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this “self”?

No, have strong enough experience of awareness not to think this.

Is there a “self” ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

Hm, no there isn't. Have to look, but there isn't.

If there is no “self” – are there “others” – what is direct experience of “others”?

Not in a place to answer this.

I'm aware these answers may be frustrating for you. They certainly are for me.

Okay that's the honest answers. Some emotional stuff happened too which I'll report because it may be relevant, or give you some insight into what's blocking this process.

Got quite depressed on first reading your message, feeling was it was premature to be checking these questions. Had spent precious day very eagerly awaiting your reply, had intuition that I was getting unhealthily dependent on affirmation from LU guide.

Couple of long walks today sitting with this depression/frustration, trying to re surrender to awareness and away from the self preoccupation of "you're not getting it". The qualities of peace and spaciousness seem the most helpful to get there at the moment. And also the thought that this very emotion is the one that needs to be sat with, as the exercise you previously mentioned advises.


Best

LV

[Jack'n'theBox]

Where is 'self' in the arising and passing of experience?


There is none, when experience is seen like this.

“When experience is seen like this”? Like what, exactly? Is there something that observes experience as separate from itself? Is there some thing that can choose to view experience in one way not another?

All you need to do is notice that experience arises spontaneously, as if from nowhere, regardless of any thought commentary about it, everything is just ‘happening’, as it always has. Notice that there are various modes of attention, as there always have been – awareness seems to zoom in and out – -- move around -- there are various modes of perception arising and vanishing, which may highlight various qualities over others, but there is nobody that ‘directs’ this full, rich, transient, direct, interdependent, sensory field – although thoughts that ‘I’ am somehow in control of all this can still arise.

Just notice that in that direct perception, the divisionlessness of ‘all this’ eliminates the subtle sense of some thing that is aware, that is choosing to be aware of this not that -- though the sense of apparent choices and decisions arising may still occur.

Notice how free and unbounded ‘all this’ truly is – the sheer immensity of it – it is all one undivided arising – there is only an illusion of some separate, permanent, continuous something that could stand outside of all of this and ‘make choices’ about it! BUT NOTICE THAT THE SENSE OF A SEPARATE OBSERVER IS ITSELF JUST AN ARISING WITHIN THE WHOLENESS OF ‘ALL THIS’.

Can you find, a “self” that is the ‘experiencer’?


Yes, in the still insistent inner voice.

Is this “inner voice” anything other than a thought commentary? Thoughts may say “Oh I’m experiencing XYZ” but can a thought itself actually experience anything, or is a thought itself simply another arising within experience?

Got quite depressed on first reading your message, feeling was it was premature to be checking these questions.

We’re just reviewing where you’re at – your answers are very useful in indicating where you need to look.

Couple of long walks today sitting with this depression/frustration, trying to re surrender to awareness and away from the self preoccupation of "you're not getting it". The qualities of peace and spaciousness seem the most helpful to get there at the moment.

Depression and frustration are though labels for sensations. Trying to “surrender to awareness” is like trying to “relax into space”. Hello? Where is there NOT space! Drop the effort.

It’s at points like this that the exercise I suggested a few posts back may help. Here it is again:

What is wrong with you that needs to be corrected?

You may think there is something wrong, and emotions seem to validate that assumption, but when you look at the emotion you will see that it is just a feeling about the thoughts you are thinking.

The emotion is not actually connected to any truth, other than the belief you give your thoughts.
Those emotions become a conditioned part of the image of your self.

Experience the emotion free of thoughts by not letting the story of the emotion play though the actual feeling.
Let the emotion just be what it is.

Now ask yourself again, what is wrong with you, and do not let your answer be determined by an emotion or a thought.

A really simple redacted version of the above that takes only seconds to do would be:

Put aside what thought is saying about the emotion/sensation currently arising in experience. Without the thought commentary “Oh this is bad” can you find anything “wrong” in the emotion/sensation itself?

What happens when you do this?

Cheers, JV

[philkingston]

Hi JV,

Have been sitting with uncomfortable emotion for the last day or so but am feeling confused as to where I'm going. I understood your last message but am not sure how to do any of it.

Notice how free and unbounded ‘all this’ truly is – the sheer immensity of it – it is all one undivided arising – there is only an illusion of some separate, permanent, continuous something that could stand outside of all of this and ‘make choices’ about it! BUT NOTICE THAT THE SENSE OF A SEPARATE OBSERVER IS ITSELF JUST AN ARISING WITHIN THE WHOLENESS OF ‘ALL THIS’.

This is the crux of what I'm trying to do but the 'trying' is getting in the way.

Is this “inner voice” anything other than a thought commentary? Thoughts may say “Oh I’m experiencing XYZ” but can a thought itself actually experience anything, or is a thought itself simply another arising within experience?

I understand these points intellectually but that understanding isn't translating into a knowing that sees through the habit.

Depression and frustration are though labels for sensations. Trying to “surrender to awareness” is like trying to “relax into space”. Hello? Where is there NOT space! Drop the effort.

Okay, am also remembering to simply relax, relax, relax.

Put aside what thought is saying about the emotion/sensation currently arising in experience. Without the thought commentary “Oh this is bad” can you find anything “wrong” in the emotion/sensation itself?

This is what I've been working on which translates as sitting with emotions that feel uncomfortable or at least the habit is to distract myself.

What happens when you do this?

I experience physical sensations and feelings. Both strongly attached to behaviours to end them.

Cheers,

LV

[Jack'n'theBox]

Have been sitting with uncomfortable emotion for the last day or so but am feeling confused as to where I'm going.

OK just hang in there. There is no journey. “You” isn’t a thing that is on the move. There is only the present moment. Only the here and now. There is no closer and no further away. Remember the space metaphor? It’s like saying “I’m getting closer to space” – but space is everywhere – nearer/farther exist only as concepts – just notice that space is always already there and the very ‘idea’ of distance becomes unintelligible.

I understood your last message but am not sure how to do any of it.

If I could do it for you, I would – but it doesn’t work that way. Remember those crazy Zen masters who throw tea at their students or hit them with shoes? What they are trying to do is break the linear thought pattern of the student – interrupt it for just a moment – and in that moment seeing can happen. It’s not something the “you” can do – it’s not something thought can do.

It happened for me while flicking through the LU “Enlightening quotes” app while listening to Radiohead and drinking chardonnay, for another guide it came while crossing the street at a zebra crossing in unity with a wave of other people, for one OM it came while doing the metta bhavana – looking for a self to love and suddenly not finding one.

So let’s put aside the idea that someone needs to do something. Let’s change the model to that of “noticing”. If I say to you “look at that bird” – do you have to do anything other than turn your head to see the bird? Do you have to do anything for seeing to happen?

So let’s change focus to that which is looking – the awareness that “notices” whatever is currently arising.


Just notice that we call ‘awareness’ is dynamic both with regard to accommodating what arises phenomenally and in respect of what might be called its ‘elasticity’. There is a traditional Mahamudra teaching which suggests this. ‘Evam’ is the word that sutras start with, meaning ‘thus’, but in Mahamudra it’s used to point to the dynamic nature of undivided awareness.

The vowel sound ‘E’ suggests the ‘open’ aspect of the dynamic, when awareness seems naturally to ‘want’ to be spacious and all-encompassing and there’s no inclination to focus down onto any particular sense arising. The more consonantal ‘VAM’ suggests the ‘focussing’ aspect of awareness, a natural movement of paying attention to a particular sense arising or aspect of experience. The ‘cycle’ can appear as rapid or slower.

Notice these two ‘tendencies’ within awareness. Have a sense of which is to the fore at any particular time.

Notice how awareness seems to zoom in and out in dependence on circumstances (a sudden car horn for example, or when standing looking at an expansive view).

Notice, is there some executive entity outside awareness that is in control, moving it around like a flashlight or a telescope?

Notice, is awareness one thing, and the ‘objects’ of awareness somehow separate, like a microscope and a slide?

[philkingston]

OK just hang in there.

If I could do it for you, I would – but it doesn’t work that way. Remember those crazy Zen masters who throw tea at their students or hit them with shoes? What they are trying to do is break the linear thought pattern of the student – interrupt it for just a moment – and in that moment seeing can happen. It’s not something the “you” can do – it’s not something thought can do.

It happened for me while flicking through the LU “Enlightening quotes” app while listening to Radiohead and drinking chardonnay, for another guide it came while crossing the street at a zebra crossing in unity with a wave of other people, for one OM it came while doing the metta bhavana – looking for a self to love and suddenly not finding one

So firstly, thanks for being so patient and understanding in this . For all I know you're guiding several people simultaneously, like an LU version of a grandmaster, and my remarks make only a fleeting impact. But to me I get the sense of being heard and responded to no matter where I'm at. It's very encouraging.

And imagine if post apocalypse this dialogue is the only trace left and the next major world religion is based around the sacrament of Chardonnay whilst simultaneously walking across massive zebra crossings listening to Radiohead. What religious wars would break our over who followed 'Kid A' and who 'Ok, Computer'?

So let’s put aside the idea that someone needs to do something. Let’s change the model to that of “noticing”. If I say to you “look at that bird” – do you have to do anything other than turn your head to see the bird? Do you have to do anything for seeing to happen?

Yes. This is helping counter a habit to look stenuously for something 'extraordinary' in experience and thus to feel 'I'm not getting it' because the very looking has made that impossible. All the discoveries of the last few weeks have come through accepting what is in front of my nose, what is always obvious.

Notice how awareness seems to zoom in and out in dependence on circumstances (a sudden car horn for example, or when standing looking at an expansive view).

Notice, is there some executive entity outside awareness that is in control, moving it around like a flashlight or a telescope?

No this dynamism happens naturally. It's like a film with long shots, close ups etc... But more sophisticated, awareness can narrow to a feeling, a thought, a taste. I walk down the street and the view is expansive but then a woman's face intrigues, an advert in an electrical shop entices, a memory nags, a task prompts anxiety, back to wide view then a song irritates, etc...

Notice, is awareness one thing, and the ‘objects’ of awareness somehow separate, like a microscope and a slide?

No, the objects are the awareness. There are no objects without awareness, though I'm note so sure if there is no awareness without objects.

Cheers,

LV

[Jack'n'theBox]

OK let's push on with just noticing the different dimensions of awareness. You did the 'symphony' exercise back in July -- but you are in a different place now so maybe you will discover something new in it -- so here it is again:

The fullness of “experience” as it arises in awareness is like a symphony – there are maybe 30 different “instruments” (sensations/feelings/thoughts) all “playing” (arising) simultaneously. You can be aware of the symphony playing in its totality but at times certain instruments (trumpets, drums, bass etc.) may rise into prominence and be more apparent. When this happens you don’t stop hearing the entire symphony. It is still there. It’s just that a certain instrument, or a certain melody or refrain arises, and is more apparent for a while, then recedes again as some other sound in the symphony arises to take its place. Your “experience” is like this symphony. All the sensations that enter through the 5 sense gates and thoughts generated by mind are always already co-present in awareness. But certain aspects of experience, like a sound, an itch, a flashing light, may arise and for a moment become more apparent – but you never lose sight of the wholeness of experience as it arises in awareness -- there is always a 'spaciousness' there no matter how narrow the focus may seem to be.

Just like with the symphony, “you” don’t need to “do” anything to notice the moderations in the sound – they simply arise in experience and become more or less apparent. Same with sensations arising in experience. Just find that space of awareness in which sensation arises and allow the symphony to play out – notice how different aspects of experience arise and recede but don’t follow them, don’t grasp on to them. Don’t label them.

Just as being fully absorbed in the symphony is a blissful, non-cognitive experience of the beauty of sound. Can you see that simply noticing this “naked awareness” (awareness of experience without thought or judgement) is also blissful?

Now, where the metaphor breaks down, is that the 'symphony' has a conductor -- someone outside the play of sounds (or sensations) that is constantly guiding or giving instructions to the 'players'.

In the 'symphony' of experience can you discern any 'thing' -- any entity outside of the experience that somehow directs or controls it?

[philkingston]

Just like with the symphony, “you” don’t need to “do” anything to notice the moderations in the sound – they simply arise in experience and become more or less apparent. Same with sensations arising in experience. Just find that space of awareness in which sensation arises and allow the symphony to play out – notice how different aspects of experience arise and recede but don’t follow them, don’t grasp on to them. Don’t label them.

Fishing it tricky to let go enough in a not trying way to simply notice. This exercise tends to get stalled by a grasping after sensation or more commonly thought that happens before it's noticed. Happy to keep working, in a relaxed way on this.

Some things noticed so far. There is strong resistance to the idea that sensations are arising in awareness when I look 'out' over the motorway or any largish view. It feels solipsistic to deny the materiality that's seen, the cars, the hills etc...

Noticing the symphony of experience as I struggled to put on my coat in a blizzard this morning it was hard to find the blissfulness.

These exercises do take time because it takes time to let to of the habits of trying. There is a doing in this that is unavoidable.

In the 'symphony' of experience can you discern any 'thing' -- any entity outside of the experience that somehow directs or controls it?

No, there is noticing, being caught by certain sensations, there are thought trains, habits of interest/speculation/desire which play out, there are the habits of thought that attach identity to these. There are likes and dislikes that are used to reinforce this identity. Working on it now sitting on the tram it's clear there is fear of where 'will I go' if all these thought patterns are seen as simply thoughts and not a solid me. The thought is 'what's left?'.

Going to stay with this, just go the answer 'nothing'

Best

LV

[Jack'n'theBox]

Some things noticed so far. There is strong resistance to the idea that sensations are arising in awareness when I look 'out' over the motorway or any largish view. It feels solipsistic to deny the materiality that's seen, the cars, the hills etc...

OK I just have to say “Wow!” to this – where do you think experience is arising, exactly?
Is it possible to experience “materiality” outside of thought?
If we were playing a game called “Make up an Abstract Noun” then you’d quite possibly win – “materiality” is pretty abstract.
Can you describe to me how you “see” materiality in direct experience?
How does “materiality” show up in direct experience?

Fishing it tricky to let go enough in a not trying way to simply notice.

Again, wowsers. Can you see how convoluted this is? Finding it tricky to let go in a not trying way!?

Even the most controlling of control freaks can’t be in constant control – there must be multiple moments in the day – hugging a crying child – running into a good friend unexpectedly – biting into some food which turns out to be unexpectedly delicious – catching a scent on the breeze which brings on an overwhelming feeling of the proximity of Spring – when the bliss is just “there”? It happens spontaneously, right? Just notice the times when this happens – and notice there was no “letting go” into these moments. They just “happen”. In fact MOST of experience is like this when thought isn’t involved. Just notice that.

These exercises do take time because it takes time to let to of the habits of trying. There is a doing in this that is unavoidable.

. . . . Says thought.

Working on it now sitting on the tram it's clear there is fear of where 'will I go' if all these thought patterns are seen as simply thoughts and not a solid me. The thought is 'what's left?'.

Going to stay with this, just go the answer 'nothing'

Well all experience up to now has always been empty of ‘self’ – so it’s not like you lose an actual thing – just the belief in a thing. As your kids have grown up, presumably they’ve already seen through a heap of beliefs – and survived the process?! Did your kids ever go through the phase of thinking you were infallible, the greatest Dad ever? Then there comes the point when you’ve made too many mistakes, when they notice other (perhaps better) role models – and the “greatest Dad” belief is seen through? Are you diminished in any way by your kids’ more realistic view of you? Of course not. As kids grow up they develop a more real, more authentic view of “you” and this is a natural and necessary process as your relationship matures.

The same thing happens when the self-view falls away – your experience isn’t diminished, it is just seen in a more realistic, authentic light. It’s pretty cool actually. It’s certainly not nothing. Have a look at the folk you know who’ve gone through this process before you – have they been diminished in any way?

Cheers,

JV

[philkingston]

Hi JV

This made me laugh out loud. Who needs the Zens master's stick when they have your invigorating sarcasm..

OK I just have to say “Wow!” to this – where do you think experience is arising, exactly?
Is it possible to experience “materiality” outside of thought?
If we were playing a game called “Make up an Abstract Noun” then you’d quite possibly win – “materiality” is pretty abstract.
Can you describe to me how you “see” materiality in direct experience?
How does “materiality” show up in direct experience?

Okay, I get the point. Direct experience, not Lalitavira's gentle penseés about experience.

Fishing it tricky to let go enough in a not trying way to simply notice.

Again, wowsers. Can you see how convoluted this is? Finding it tricky to let go in a not trying way!?

Okay, stop unecessarilly complicating this.

These exercises do take time because it takes time to let to of the habits of trying. There is a doing in this that is unavoidable.

. . . . Says thought.

Okay.

. As your kids have grown up, presumably they’ve already seen through a heap of beliefs – and survived the process?! Did your kids ever go through the phase of thinking you were infallible, the greatest Dad ever? Then there comes the point when you’ve made too many mistakes, when they notice other (perhaps better) role models – and the “greatest Dad” belief is seen through? Are you diminished in any way by your kids’ more realistic view of you? Of course not. As kids grow up they develop a more real, more authentic view of “you” and this is a natural and necessary process as your relationship matures.

Yes. They're mostly still young enough to think I'm amazing but I get your point.

The same thing happens when the self-view falls away – your experience isn’t diminished, it is just seen in a more realistic, authentic light. It’s pretty cool actually. It’s certainly not nothing. Have a look at the folk you know who’ve gone through this process before you – have they been diminished in any way?

Absolutely not. I've never seen my wife happier or more resourceful nor others who have a groundedness, cheerfulness and unsensational wisdom.

Cheers,

LV

[Jack'n'theBox]

OK, great. What's your response to this?

When you become aware of silence, immediately there is that state of inner still alertness. You are present. You have stepped out of thousands of years of collective human conditioning. Look at a tree, a flower, a plant. Let your awareness rest upon it. How still they are, how deeply rooted in Being. Allow nature to teach you stillness.
.
When you look at a tree and perceive its stillness, you become still yourself. You connect with it at a very deep level. You feel a oneness with whatever you perceive in and through stillness. Feeling the oneness of yourself with all things is true love.
.
Silence is helpful, but you don’t need it in order to find stillness. Even when there is noise, you can be aware of the stillness underneath the noise, of the space in which the noise arises. That is the inner space of pure awareness, consciousness itself.
.
You can become aware of awareness as the background to all your sense perceptions, all your thinking. Becoming aware of awareness is the arising of inner stillness.

.
- Eckhart Tolle.

[philkingston]

Hi JV,

My apologies . I wrote a longish reply to this yesterdar afternoon and have been waiting ever since for your response. Just went online to ask if everything was okay and discovered my post didn't get through for some reason.

From memory.

Yes this stillness does seem reachable at times and I practiced looking for it at the most challenging moments, putting children to bed, on a crowded commuter tram etc..

Other observations- the impulse to articulate what is happening in these exercises can undermine, 'break', fall far short of the moments themselves. And the impulse can come too quick so words are oversimplifying something before there's time for it to be experienced.

Another intuition that whatever is happening is right in front of my nose, that in looking for extraordinary experiences to prove this process is working I have missed much truth in ordinary experiences that have been had millions of times.

Best

LV

[Jack'n'theBox]

Yes this stillness does seem reachable at times and I practiced looking for it at the most challenging moments, putting children to bed, on a crowded commuter tram etc.

OK – look at this closely. What is it that “reaches” for this stillness? Is there some “thing” that is distracted “over here” that has to reach for the stillness that is “over there”?

Also what “practices” this – do you have to “practice” looking, hearing, smelling, tasting, cognizing, etc?

Other observations- the impulse to articulate what is happening in these exercises can undermine, 'break', fall far short of the moments themselves. And the impulse can come too quick so words are oversimplifying something before there's time for it to be experienced.

OK, check this. Experience arises spontaneously as “just this, just now” – notice the gap between the arising and then the mental commentary on it. Just noticing the gap is enough – it doesn’t require duration. It’s not a “state” we’re after.

This might be more obvious if you do it when you have some quiet down time and not on the tram or on the run (though it’s fine to look at these times, too).

Another intuition that whatever is happening is right in front of my nose, that in looking for extraordinary experiences to prove this process is working I have missed much truth in ordinary experiences that have been had millions of times.

Right so what’s the problem?

Is it a fear of letting go? My big fear in letting go was what would remain, and it "clicked" that what would remain is exactly what is happening now. So is there anything happening right now, other than the belief that there is a “me” doing all this, that wouldn't also be happening if the belief was let go of, or was no longer there?

[philkingston]

What is it that “reaches” for this stillness? Is there some “thing” that is distracted “over here” that has to reach for the stillness that is “over there”?

No thing, but there does have to be a change of some sort from the habitual way of responding. Later on in this post you advise doing looking in down time with the implication that there needs to be some space to see things.

Also what “practices” this – do you have to “practice” looking, hearing, smelling, tasting, cognizing, etc?

No but if I could see through the belief in the self as naturally as I do these things we wouldn't still be talking.

OK, check this. Experience arises spontaneously as “just this, just now” – notice the gap between the arising and then the mental commentary on it. Just noticing the gap is enough – it doesn’t require duration. It’s not a “state” we’re after.

Okay, I can see this and have been exploring noticing this. The mind doesn't like it much and it's unfamiliar but...richer. The main obstacle is an urge to focus in on some sense detail because the 'not thinking' about things feels vague and too abstract, as if I were wasting the chance to experience.

Right so what’s the problem?

Was this obvious to you? In the sense that the problem was clear and distinct?

So is there anything happening right now, other than the belief that there is a “me” doing all this, that wouldn't also be happening if the belief was let go of, or was no longer there?

There would be less emotion. All the emotions attached to believing in a me and needing to protect and assert it.

My fear? It's to do with control. Loss of control. It's embarrassing to say this because I've said it so many times before but just thinking about how there isn't really an 'I' in control hasn't dispelled the dependency, the conviction I need to stay in charge consciously.

Best
LV

[Jack'n'theBox]

Also what “practices” this – do you have to “practice” looking, hearing, smelling, tasting, cognizing, etc?


No but if I could see through the belief in the self as naturally as I do these things we wouldn't still be talking.

Well this is the key point. You need to let this sink in. Experience is always already arising in its natural unfabricated state – as in the Buddha’s instruction to Bahiya “in the seen, just the seen.” No effort is required to see, hear, smell, taste, touch, cognize – all sense arisings appear copresent with the awareness of them – there are not two things – object + awareness.

So there is no “I” that does these things and, importantly,

Seeing through the belief in self is not something the “I” can “do” – you keep feeding thought stories around what the “I” can/can’t do – the conditions it needs to see – things that get in its way.

Just look at this moment, any moment – there are sensations, emotions and thoughts – there may be thoughts about an “I” but can you find an actual “I”?

Try this – an image of your arm arises – now grab your arm and give it a squeeze. There is a sensation, right? The thought image refers to a “thing” that can be found.

Now take this image of “I” or “me” – can you grab it in the same way? If it exists it must be findable, right? So where is it? Look now and grab ahold of it.

OK, check this. Experience arises spontaneously as “just this, just now” – notice the gap between the arising and then the mental commentary on it. Just noticing the gap is enough – it doesn’t require duration. It’s not a “state” we’re after.


Okay, I can see this and have been exploring noticing this. The mind doesn't like it much and it's unfamiliar but...richer. The main obstacle is an urge to focus in on some sense detail because the 'not thinking' about things feels vague and too abstract, as if I were wasting the chance to experience.

Are you saying that direct experience of a sensation is “more vague and abstract” than thoughts about a sensation?

So is there anything happening right now, other than the belief that there is a “me” doing all this, that wouldn't also be happening if the belief was let go of, or was no longer there?


There would be less emotion. All the emotions attached to believing in a me and needing to protect and assert it.

Can you see this is a thought story? There is only the present moment – are “all the emotions attached to believing in a me” present is this moment now? Of course not – emotion, like sensation arises in dependence on conditions. We could say that each moment is different – but that isn’t really true since we only have direct experience of this moment now – all the rest is thought stories about previous or future moments.

My fear? It's to do with control. Loss of control. It's embarrassing to say this because I've said it so many times before but just thinking about how there isn't really an 'I' in control hasn't dispelled the dependency, the conviction I need to stay in charge consciously.

Well the “I” resides in thought –as does the idea of control – so thinking about this stuff isn’t going to work. It’s the looking that counts.

[philkingston]

Just look at this moment, any moment – there are sensations, emotions and thoughts – there may be thoughts about an “I” but can you find an actual “I”?

Try this – an image of your arm arises – now grab your arm and give it a squeeze. There is a sensation, right? The thought image refers to a “thing” that can be found.

Now take this image of “I” or “me” – can you grab it in the same way? If it exists it must be findable, right? So where is it? Look now and grab ahold of it.

It's not there so I'm left grabbing at my body in a sincere if slightly deranged manner.

And then I try and grab it internally because it's not 'out here' like my arm.....it's not there I'm just imagining something, in fact the something I'm imagining isn't even an imagination, I just assume it's there so when I look this ghost, this idea, is assumed to exist. There's nothing there but the sensations of the moment, and thought habits about what should be there.

OK, check this. Experience arises spontaneously as “just this, just now” – notice the gap between the arising and then the mental commentary on it. Just noticing the gap is enough – it doesn’t require duration. It’s not a “state” we’re after.

That's exhilarating.

Are you saying that direct experience of a sensation is “more vague and abstract” than thoughts about a sensation?

No, I was trying to be honest and articulate about some of the emotions which were clouding the looking but am getting the message this is a dead end.

Can you see this is a thought story? There is only the present moment – are “all the emotions attached to believing in a me” present is this moment now? Of course not – emotion, like sensation arises in dependence on conditions. We could say that each moment is different – but that isn’t really true since we only have direct experience of this moment now – all the rest is thought stories about previous or future moments.

Okay so I'm still buying into thought stories, not making the distinction between them and direct experience clearly enough.

Well the “I” resides in thought –as does the idea of control – so thinking about this stuff isn’t going to work. It’s the looking that counts.

So that's what I'm doing, keeping looking. Today a couple of occasions when not taking things personally made much more sense than it usually does.

BTW how do you do the metta bhavana?

Best

LV