LL Curtis - This is your thread

[Trinity]

Close your eyes and search for the boundary of you. Where do you end and where does the world begin?

There is no boundary. The body is in the world.


In your direct experience, how tall are you?

Arrrr…now I lost it….(???) I don’t know exactly. I just see a vague outline, along with felt sensations of the body. Like my attention is feeling around in space.


How old?

No age until thought comes in and creates pictures and stories.


How many toes do you have?

No toes. I am a gingerbread person.


Couldn't you be any shape?

Yea, I’m vaguely getting that each time I look I get a different shape.


Can you feel a boundary between skin and clothes, or is this only a kind of blurry sensation?

No boundary.


Smell a rose…

Nice!


or dogshit.

What!?

Dog Shit!?

Thanks a lot Ingen...

(Haha!)

(You knew I was going to say that, huh!?)


Without thinking, without telling stories: Is there a you smelling the flower? Or is there only the experience of smell...

I have had a hard time with this one. But I just saw when I made myself a cup of coffee, I noticed that there was smell first, then I came in after to take credit for it.


When you open your eyes, what happens? Is there a you looking out of two holes in your head?

No!


Are you doing seeing? Or are the sights just here,

Sights are just there.


…without any boundary?

Stuck again (???)…I don’t get this one... (???)
I can’t see in back of my head, and it is black on both sides.
But if you mean by “without any boundary” that if I soften my attention, that there is a sense that there is an overall seeing of all of this…then, Yes.

[Ingen]

The meaning of this exercise was to show you how every sensation arises, without YOU doing perception. Sensations arise, and then labeling happens:

But I just saw when I made myself a cup of coffee, I noticed that there was smell first, then I came in after to take credit for it.

GREAT that you discovered that. First the sensation or feeling arises, then a thought comes afterwards, giving it a label : "I".

"I" is this thought, with the underlying belief that there is a real story behind it. (Batgirl).
There is not more to it.

Observe this sequence in your everyday activities, when you drive, get hungry and eat, smile at someone, scratch your head.

Can you find an I that is not a thought labeling sensations, actions and feelings?

(I am considering changing the dogshit out with coffee next time... sorry. :))

[Trinity]

Actually - I love being shocked! It brought a smile to my face...that "I" later came in and took credit for. (He He!)

You know...this whole thing yesterday brought to the surface many things. Things I have never noticed before.

Thank you!

I will continue to notice with facination!

:)

[Trinity]

I just noticed that I missed your question.

Can you find an I that is not a thought labeling sensations, actions and feelings?

Can I get back with you a bit later on this? I want to play around with it today and report back.

You know...this actually dawned on me yesterday while doing what you asked. It was like, "wow!... I am just thought". But it felt passing and not penetrating, more like catching a whiff of lilacs in the air.

:)

[Trinity]

Well...That didn't take long! :)

No. It is blaringly obvious.

Ya..But.... I still think or feel I am real.

(Sounds funny huh!)

[Trinity]

wooooooh

I just caught that.

Ya..But.... I still think or feel I am real

That is just another "I" thought labeling actions, feelings, and sensations.

Well, if you must know...If I am going to be anything, I'd rather be WonderWoman, Neytiri in Avatar, or Xena the Warrior princess...or maybe even Cat Woman.... (But was she a good guy or a bad guy?) Anyway... Bat girl is just not going to cut it. :p


(Even seeing this....It still seems real though!!! Which is just another thought, and this could go on forever! How to stop that though...?????)

I'll stop.

Sorry! :)

[Ingen]

woooh indeed!

(Even seeing this....It still seems real though!!! Which is just another thought, and this could go on forever! How to stop that though...?????)

It is a habit. It doesn't stop immediately, maybe at some point. But that doesn't matter now you know that it is the Batgirl character taking credit for everything that is happening, and that Bat girl is a story. It looses importance. It is practical for communication and tax formalities.

Sorry, you don't even get to choose your character :). Actually, that's part of the game. The character is never good enough- (there is that dirty little secret at the core of it, which it tries to hide). Therefore it has to PROVE it is real. Comparing itself with Neytiri, Xena and Cat Woman! It is constantly trying to improve itself and everything around it. Which results in A LOT of unnecessary struggle and competitiveness, and missing life where it is happening - in direct experience. The smell of coffee, the feel of heat, the sight of flowers just being there, without a perceiver.

Keep looking. What is real about you?

[Trinity]

rrrr...you are no fun at all! You truth teller you!

(he he!)

Ok, so, what is real about me?

Hmm mm....

It goes back to the body. And that "I" as this body feels so real. Like a sense. (But now that just got cancelled out...(?) - That is another thought labeleing sensations.)

I exist. I know I do.

This, right here, right now, is happening here to "me" - or whatever this thing is, even if a Loralee story isn't running.

[Ingen]

The sense of self is not the same as a self. There is a sense of where the body is situated in the room - very important for survival. There is a sense how the body feels - very familiar, of course. There is a certain pattern how thoughts are happening. Also very familiar. This is the sense of self. Like a sense of summer, a sense of adventure (thinking of Bat girl again, sorry :) ) ...

I exist. I know I do.

How do you know this?

This, right here, right now, is happening here to "me" - or whatever this thing is, even if a Loralee story isn't running.

Can you describe this "me"? How do you experience "me" in direct experience?

Keep noticing what is happening, and how thought labels everything. Smiling happens - thought labels it "I smiled".

Bedtime here. Good night

[Trinity]

Good Night Ingen! Thank you again! I'll reply tomorrow!

[Trinity]

Hey Ingen!

There is a certain pattern how thoughts are happening. Also very familiar. This is the sense of self. Like a sense of summer, a sense of adventure (thinking of Bat girl again, sorry :) ) ... [/i]

Actually, I love it! Bad humor! (with a tad of seriousness. Oh... I forgot Trinity in the Matrix). (he he!)
I get it...Maybe???
(The suffering of it...absolutely!)
It was odd, I remember watching where my eyes go when I was trying to do what you asked. There was this sense that all of this is occuring completely without my doing...in a radical way - Like, completely occuring without my doing...(???)

I exist. I know I do.
How do you know this?

The ability to be self aware...to reflect back upon myself and experience myself in a direct experiential way.

Interesting though to even contemplate this...it is such a mysterious thing. (In a swimming sense). And I may be way off and this may be just thought coming in, but I keep getting this sense that the full knowingness of existing is muffled, like hearing beautiful music from far away. It almost feels like a lie to say I exist completely, (weird), but there is undeniably a conscious awareness that in whatever degree, knows, there is existence experienced here.


Can you describe this "me"? How do you experience "me" in direct experience?

I didn't know if you meant the "Me" without a story, or the "Me" with a story... (Sorry...my mind is foggy today. The following answer is the "me" without a story - unless it is lurking back in the background, which it feels like it. But I will give it a shot).

Like a central processing of experience agency. :)

Like a central point of experience where experience is registered, known, and experienced.

To clarify:
When something is experienced, it is experienced and noted here.
I wake up and this body is everywhere I go.
There are preferences, sensations, and feelings that appear to not occur the same in another body or object.
When I hear a thought, I hear it here, no one else can hear it.

Keep noticing what is happening, and how thought labels everything. Smiling happens - thought labels it "I smiled".

Amazing! Even someone walking into the room seems to trigger the mechanics of this unconsciously. Like I noticed the ease of just seeing the sky or a bird without the I thought immediately coming in. But with people, there is this immediate, you / me mechanism. Interesting.

[Ingen]

It was odd, I remember watching where my eyes go when I was trying to do what you asked. There was this sense that all of this is occuring completely without my doing...in a radical way - Like, completely occuring without my doing...(???)

Ha! completely without your doing! Is that true?

I exist. I know I do.
How do you know this?
The ability to be self aware...to reflect back upon myself and experience myself in a direct experiential way.

How does this happen? Sensations appear, then thoughts appear, labeling the sensation "reflecting back upon myself".

Can you describe this "me"? How do you experience "me" in direct experience?
There are preferences, sensations, and feelings that appear to not occur the same in another body or object.

... This is an abstract thought which doesn't come from direct experience. Does a baby speculate about how the world looks from another vantage point? NO. It learns to do that later in life. Batgirl was born at about 3 years of age. A baby knows only direct experience.

I wake up and this body is everywhere I go.

Your body is everywhere where who goes?
-----
May I ask you something? Is there even a character called batgirl? Or am I making that up?

[Trinity]

Shit?.... Maybe there isn't a Bat girl!?

Woooooow!....

Ingen!.... Geez!

Now I am really spinning.

Well, if there isn't, I believed there was, and filled in a whole story of seeing her like a little school girl or something with this mousy looking eye mask thingy. Hysterical!

Brilliant!

Point Taken!

Nothing like a good 'ol slap now and then!

Speaking of getting slapped....Whew! Where do I start today, huh!

Let me take a humility pill and I'll get back to you on all this, K!

:)

[Trinity]

Ok, so if that was an honest question... Yes, there is a character named Bat girl (in the comics sense). And she looks tough. No school girl there.

I had to loook it up. I thought I was completely loosing touch here.

I know...good thing, right! :)

[Ingen]

Thanks, interesting. The other questions are more relevant though :)