Another guide please

[Armstrong]

OK. But do you ever experience an object directly? Or do you just experience the sight, touch, etc of an object?

Is your body the same as these other objects?

Where do you imagine your "self" is?

[marka]

But do you ever experience an object directly?

not experience directly, no, just experience the sight touch etc.

Is your body the same as these other objects?

Well, I think it probably is.
(I say probably because still seem to have some attachment to the idea that the body is a 'me')

Where do you imagine your "self" is?

I don't know. Not in the body, although there clearly is a body, it is not self. Behind the eyes? No, that's not it. That's like saying 'inside the ears?' lol which is clearly not true.
I don't know is the current answer.

And from the earlier exercise you gave whilst driving
Context:

f you pretend reality is like an illusion (perhaps created by a computer that creates colors that you see and pressure that you feel), can you notice, moment to moment, how there is the view of a world as a bunch of objects?

This next bit:

And what are you in that world? Do you have a location, place, color, etc? I don't mean you as your body, of course. But as the thing that experiences the world.

No location place colour.
I don't know what I am in that world except the 'thing' experiencing it.

[Armstrong]

Let's let "personal thoughts" mean thoughts in line with the belief that you - the thing understanding this - are a person, born on a certain day, living a life, knowing these people and having that job, etc.

If you focus on what's here now, and don't believe any "personal" thoughts about the past or future (iust recognize them as thoughts), is there anything "personal" about your experience of you, the thing understanding this now? Are you aware of anything connecting or binding you to what you experience now? Do you have a past or a future?

[marka]

anything personal?
no.
anything connecting to what experience now?
no.
past or future?
no.

[marka]

so why, then, did 'I' get so damned 'tripped up' today on feelings?
all day, had grumpy anger frustration - of course there was a story to it, bought into that too.
And that's the point here - why did the emotion take over, like there was a 'me' feeling bad all day?
I am not really understanding how I can have clarity demonstrated above (they are genuine answers) and then complete attachment to 'me' (perpetrated through emotions) for a whole day.

[Armstrong]

Ok. Well here is where it gets interesting.

Can you please try to pay attention to how you think and feel when this stuff happens? I mean in direct experience. You'll have thoughts about an "I" in the moment. Whether or not you recognize theme as they happen matters.

You might be able to notice this if you listen to someone you don't like on youtube saying something you don't like - eg a political thing. Or try being around people you don't like and see what happens in direct experience in terms of thoughts and feelings.

[marka]

Hmm. I will do this and trust your 'it gets interesting'.
thanks.

[Armstrong]

Ok. I recommend you dive right in and take a look.

[marka]

As so often happens the universe presented me with an ideal opportunity:
A person saying a lot of things I did not like, directly to me, directly affecting me .....

Can you please try to pay attention to how you think and feel when this stuff happens?

My thoughts immediately started running on the lines of 'he's trying to get one over on me', 'he thinks I'm stupid', 'he's really trying it on here' (actually the language in my head was a lot stronger, I've toned it down here) - at the time the feelings were of irritation, slight anger, annoyance that this was happening.
On and off the thoughts kept returning to this situation and the people involved. I found myself picturing me having a row with them and all the things I would say: 'you must think I'm stupid', 'do you really expect me to believe that'?, 'you are completely full of it', 'I'm not interested in your stories' .... the feelings were of anger, of varying degrees.

I noticed that there was a strong sense of 'I', deeply offended that this was happening to 'him'. I also noticed the constant reference to an 'I' throughout the thought processes. This was very strong.

[Armstrong]

Nice looking!

So was there an "I" in your perception? Or just thoughts of an "I"?
Did anything make it harder or easier to note the presence or absence of the "I"?
How did you respond to the situation?

[marka]

just thoughts of an I.
easier to note the presence of an 'I' with the strength of feeling.
respond? made it clear i was not happy initially. then just let it be and 'watched' the thoughts ....oh, not quite true ..... tried to let it be and watch but actually often got sucked in and believed in an 'I' !

[Armstrong]

Ok. So this is all a memory now.
Have you - the thing understanding these words - changed? Is there any evidence you're different?

[marka]

Have you - the thing understanding these words - changed? Is there any evidence you're different?

No, not sure there is any change.
The 'thing' seems the same. There is no evidence I'm different.
Although thinking about the other way round - is there any evidence I am not different - I'm not sure there is for that either.

[Armstrong]

OK. So it sounds like you expected that things would be different than this. That is, that somehow you'd experience reality differently. Reality is how it is, not how you thought it ought to be. Is that what's going on?

Can you explain how you're thinking things ought to be?

[Armstrong]

To be a bit more specific, it seems you've got the idea that you are flawed - the "proof" being that you had certain experiences that seem uncomfortable relative to other experiences.

Is there something wrong with you beyond your experience and control? What is it that is wrong? Can you point to it or find it? Can you please prove to me that there's something broken or flawed? Please pretend I'm a 5-year old and don't understand big words.