Thread for bill =8^0

[Billy3xs]

Dear Vivien,

What is time?
How time is experienced with the 5 senses?

Time is a thought and cannot be experienced with the 5 senses.

What is past and future?
How past or future is experienced with the 5 senses?

Past is a memory thought and future is also a thought and can't be experienced with the 5 senses.

Does past or future ‘exists’ other than content of thoughts?

No

Is there a proof that you had dinner last night?

Not in direct experience.

Is there any proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?

Not in direct experience.

Is there anything outside of this present moment?

Not in direct experience.
"A new day begins and of the dream called yesterday, no trace."

Sincerely,
bill

[Vivien]

Dear Bill,

Is there any proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?

Not in direct experience.

Is there any proof other than content of thoughts that you had dinner last night?

Is there anything outside of this present moment?

Not in direct experience.

So there is something ‘outside’ of this present moment?
Where? And how is that known?

So are there direct experience and non-direct experience?
Can anything be experienced that is not directly experience?

What direct experience point to in reality?
Is there such thing as direct experience or is it just a concept, a label stick to the pure experiencing?

Love, Vivien

[Billy3xs]

Dear Vivien,

Is there any proof other than content of thoughts that you had dinner last night?

No. Only stuff with content attached, no pure experiencing. Like, the chicken is gone, must have eaten it. Who drank all the beer!

So there is something ‘outside’ of this present moment?
Where? And how is that known?

Only the stories and content of thoughts relating to past or future. Like changes in history, like the sink is now full of dishes from dinner, it used to be empty. But that is present moment input with thought content explaining why the dishes are there from the past.

So are there direct experience and non-direct experience?

Only DE, non-DE would be the thought content, thought stories, of the direct experience of a thought.

Can anything be experienced that is not directly experience?

No, so the non-DE would be the contents of a thought experienced in direct experience.

What is direct experience pointing to in reality?
Is there such thing as direct experience or is it just a concept, a label stuck to the pure experiencing?

Ya a label for sure, pointing to input from one or more of the 5 senses experienced by something called awareness before content comes in.

Sincerely,
bill

[Vivien]

Dear Bill,

Ya a label for sure, pointing to input from one or more of the 5 senses experienced by something called awareness before content comes in.

And is there such thing as ‘awareness’ or is ‘awareness’ just another mental label, a concept stick to the experiencing?

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been an ‘I’ that could control or own life or anything?
Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

Is there an 'I' of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Do others have responsibilities?

Is there a 'you' that started this investigation?
Has there ever been a 'you' doing anything?

Any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

When it is clearly seen that there has never been a self, as a next step, there are further six questions to ask as part of this guiding process. The response is then shared with other guides. They may or may not have further questions.

Once it is confirmed by other guides that seeing through the illusion of the self has happened, our conversation in this thread will come to an end, however you won’t be left alone. There is a whole community of others on FB, who have also seen through the ‘self’. Actually, there are several groups to join.

Are you ready for the six questions?

Love, Vivien

[Billy3xs]

Dear Vivien,

And is there such thing as ‘awareness’ or is ‘awareness’ just another mental label, a concept stick to the experiencing?

Yes another label, a concept swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Just experiencing.

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been an ‘I’ that could control or own life or anything?
Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

Yes the clarification has been the biggest part of this, thanks so much. I see no chooser or decider.

Is there an 'I' of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Do others have responsibilities?

Um, there are no other egos or billys with responsibilities.

Is there a 'you' that started this investigation?
Has there ever been a 'you' doing anything?

No

Any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

Nope

Are you ready for the six questions?

Sure

Sincerely,
bill

[Vivien]

Dear Bill,

Um, there are no other egos or billys with responsibilities.

Can ‘ego’ be experienced? Does this word point to anything ‘real’?


So here are the six questions. Please answer as clearly as possible and with as much detail as needed. Don’t forget to add everyday examples from your experience for question 5.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love, Vivien

[Billy3xs]

Dear Vivien,

Can ‘ego’ be experienced? Does this word point to anything ‘real’?

No, just a concept for self, another concept. Only thoughts.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No I, me, or self to be found, just the thought of one. Well, in the past, no great event of self passing or great change or disappearance of something that was actually there. So there must not have ever been a real self.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

There is input from the senses, this feels alive, the thought comes that this is My feeling, that Billy exists. "I feel, therefore I am". Now I see this existing as just a thought creating something that does not exist in reality, but only conceptually.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Well I was not that attached to my thoughts in the first place. I did not have a "reactive mind". But I did have a thought that Billy existed somehow and have made my peace, said goodbye, and am ok with that. The main newness for me is a greater awareness/experience of thought labels and an ease of letting go of them and just seeing what is. Life as it is.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The first, which included several body rushes, was saying goodbye to "Billy". The realization that self is just a thought was very profound. Then working through Direct Experience began to point out labels more than I've thought of them before. I feel the experience of Direct Experience happening more often and sometimes rather intensely, like rigpa.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

A thought comes to do something, another thought contains the idea that this is something to do. Then action takes place and a thought comes that this was a good outcome. Sensory input comes in that is unpleasant and a thought comes to act to correct the condition causing the unpleasant sensory input. The unpleasant sensation stops and the thought comes "this is good". Mongo happy now. :-) But I know there is no Mongo now, just the concept of him, a nice place holder in the flow of life.

6) Anything to add?

This has been a great experience. Such a direct pointing to no self. Sure beats all that Zen beating around the bush, although it was all there too, all along.

Thank you Vivien for all the work and time you are giving to this great effort.

Sincerely,
bill

[Vivien]

Dear Bill,

I'm happy to say that the guides are satisfied that you have seen through the illusion of a separate self and none of them has any further questions.

I'm sending you a private message, so please check your inbox.

Love,
Vivien