OKness

[Tigger]

Working with or observing the body from “no self/ no I” my attention is immediately drawn to the spaciousness inside and outside the body. The relaxed response to the vastness, warmth, comfort, unconditional relief it provides on all spheres of influence mental, emotional etc..

As to “once I noticed the pointing out instructions it went through the night question.
I was pleasantly indulging in absorption of just that -noticing. Noticing when I was very alert. Noticing when I was drifting at bit. Noticing Noticing. No problem.

There is no “I” no “Self”. I notice awareness first. Some no thing thing is aware of everything. Thoughts, feelings, emotions, habits and patterns come in eventually. If awareness notices itself again a great warmth, comfort, love effect the body.

If thoughts arise they are noticed as arising by awareness then they pass by. Some thoughts can create a subtle sensation in the body. If the thoughts connect with a pattern of feelings, concepts or habits the body reacts in a sentoruim of added responses and feeling and at the same time the body especially the brain gets heavier and thickens. If it stays thick for a while a story beginnings and it feels real, thick in the body. That’s when the strategies come in to judge it. Should “I” do something here with this.

Basically, it can occur in reverse body sensation to associated familiar feelings to beliefs or concepts to thoughts.

Like I said rereading this language is not my strong suit. I do feel it this way. There is thought. It happens on some level. If it goes on for a while the body reacts.

My apologies, I am a little toasty from data overload at a conference here, long hours and limited time for inquiry.

So appreciate you giving me your generous time. Things ease up starting tomorrow afternoon and I can dive into the deep end more.

Thanks for your patience,
todd

[Angelika]

Hello Todd!

Thank you very much for continuing inquiry despite experiencing a tight schedule. :)


Here is the next investigation to sit with;

Todd: Thoughts, feelings, emotions, habits and patterns come in eventually.

• 1) Can there any I, any self, any sort of center or solidity be found in thoughts?
  
  2) Is there any I, any self, any sort of center or solidity to be found in feelings?
  
  3) Is there an I, a self, any sort of center or solidity inherent in emotions?
  
  4) Can there any I, any self, any sort of center or solidity be found in habits?
  
  5) Is there any I, any self, any sort of center or solidity to be found in patterns?

Todd: I notice awareness first. Some no thing thing is aware of everything.

• Please describe exclusively from direct experience and as detailed as possible, the nature of awareness, the nature of some no-thing.

Please take your time. :)

Thank you very much!

Angelika

[Tigger]

HI Anglika,

Nothing solid in thoughts, feelings, concepts, habits or patterns. Unfortunately, once attention is brought to them the centrifugal force contracts and they are felt as real in the body/mind and centers a familiar experience of a me. Pure experience of karma.

I have never experienced it in this way. Thanks for this pointing out. It’s a blinding insight into the obvious. There the whole time. It’s a bundle of all the above, thoughts, feelings, concepts, habits, patterns unable to see its self or have any other perception outside itself. Aristotle’s, I think, analysis of the cave. Once seen I can sense the center of it as simply not knowing the true and fear of a very innocent little being, lost. Definite lack of aliveness. Doomed to repeat as an endless echo in time and space.

The nature of no-thingnesss; the stark lack of anything. Nothing measurable to describe other than the noticeable opposite of the Somethingness which perniciously makes up my experience as I indentify with a me. Three levels of experience in reference to the body since we began there. At mind no-thingness its clear bluish light, vast and liberated. At the heart level its connected with everything and everyone as the One ( very hard not to me suck into the seductiveness of it and make it a thing). Below, in the gut, its dark no perception nothing perceived, its doesn’t see or recognize itself. A blank mystery. When all three areas of no-thingness are in equanimity. The dance dances freely until it rests then dance again. Dynamic Stillness. Pure Joy.

Big Love,
tw

[Angelika]

Hello Todd :)

Nothing solid in thoughts, feelings, concepts, habits or patterns.

Super. :)

Unfortunately, once attention is brought to them the centrifugal force contracts and they are felt as real in the body/mind and centers a familiar experience of a me. Pure experience of karma.

Please continue exploring from here. :)

• Was there not attention focused on thoughts, feelings, etc, when you saw that there was nothing solid to them?
  
  At what point does the experience of a me come in?

• What is the nature of a me ?
  
  Please look directly at that "me" and describe the experienced in your own words. Please avoid using concepts. Thank you! :)

Once seen I can sense the center of it as simply not knowing the true and fear of a very innocent little being, lost. Definite lack of aliveness.

• Please help me with this. Is there a little being, a solid center of any kind? What is the nature of this center? Thank you!

Doomed to repeat as an endless echo in time and space.

• Really? :) Has this been seen, felt, experienced directly or is this rather a sort of speculative scenario?
  Thank you!

Some no thing thing is aware of everything.

the One ... ( very hard not to me suck into the seductiveness of it and make it a thing).

• Does this no thing, the One have a solid center of any kind?

If awareness notices itself again a great warmth, comfort, love effect the body.

• Please help me with this. Is awareness noticing itself experienced directly?

Thank you very much!

With warm greetings,

Angelika :)

[Tigger]

Hello Todd :)


Nothing solid in thoughts, feelings, concepts, habits or patterns.


Super. :)


Unfortunately, once attention is brought to them the centrifugal force contracts and they are felt as real in the body/mind and centers a familiar experience of a me. Pure experience of karma.


Please continue exploring from here. :)
Was there not attention focused on thoughts, feelings, etc, when you saw that there was nothing solid to them?

Yes, but more like awareness that turned into attention.

At what point does the experience of a me come in?

When attention lingers, sticks and becomes a story.

What is the nature of a me ?

Security

Please look directly at that "me" and describe the experienced in your own words. Please avoid using concepts. Thank you! :)


heavy, amorphous, blobby, wanting, waiting, tyrannical, petty, judgmental, wanting to prove a point of view. reactionary, limited.



Once seen I can sense the center of it as simply not knowing the true and fear of a very innocent little being, lost. Definite lack of aliveness.

Please help me with this. Is there a little being, a solid center of any kind? What is the nature of this center? Thank you!

No little being, no solid center but it can center experience.



Doomed to repeat as an endless echo in time and space.

Really? :) Has this been seen, felt, experienced directly or is this rather a sort of speculative scenario?
Thank you!

Yes, in my present delusion directly it would continue indefinitely until something changes. If it gets some energy (attention) it will continue. Guess I _____ed that one up. Hey, if we can’t have some fun what’s the point.


Some no thing thing is aware of everything.

the One ... ( very hard not to me suck into the seductiveness of it and make it a thing).

Does this no thing, the One have a solid center of any kind?

NO, an affect, a side effect, realized downstream in the body.



If awareness notices itself again a great warmth, comfort, love effect the body.



Please help me with this. Is awareness noticing itself experienced directly?

Me don’t and can’t experience it directly. It realizes it Nature that’s all.


Thank you very much!

With warm greetings,

Angelika :)

Angelika

Thank you.

Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:50 am
•

[Angelika]

Hello Todd!

Thank you for your answers. :)

May I ask you to please use the quote function?

Here is how it works:

1) Select the text passage you wish to reply to. Copy it and paste it into the open reply window you are currently working in. For replying, please use the option "Full Editor".

2) Next step is to select the pasted text passage once more and click on the icon "Quote" in the list of functions above.

Can you see how it works?

Thank you very much!

:)

[Angelika]

Let´s investigate step by step. :)

Q: What is the nature of a me ?
A: Security

• Was this seen directly, experienced directly through one of the following senses - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling?
  
  Or is security an idea, a mind made concept, a thought?

Q: Please look directly at that "me" and describe the experienced in your own words. Please avoid using concepts. Thank you! :)
A: heavy, amorphous, blobby, wanting, waiting, tyrannical, petty, judgmental, wanting to prove a point of view. reactionary, limited.

• How does the idea of me = security fit together with the experienced?

• Where can a "me" be located at, where is its center to be found?

Please take your time, sit and explore!

Thank you very much! :)

Angelika

[Angelika]

PS:

Yes, in my present delusion directly it would continue indefinitely until something changes.

Is this not why you are here? :) By the way, the antidote to delusion is to notice it and to fully relax into it.

[Tigger]

Q: What is the nature of a me ?
A: Security


Was this seen directly, experienced directly through one of the following senses - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling?

Or is security an idea, a mind made concept, a thought?



1) Select the text passage you wish to reply to. Copy it and paste it into the open reply window you are currently working in. For replying, please use the option "Full Editor".

Got it but "Full Editor" is not appearing on the post a reply page. Is it in menu bar hidden? Where?

[Angelika]

Hello Todd,

I am sorry for the delayed answer. I was very busy. :)

Please try the following steps.

• After you read this lines, click on the icon "Quick Reply"
  
  - A a field opens to write in.
  
  - Please scroll down until you see two icons - outside, below the field.
  
  - Click on the icon called "Full Editor".
  
  - A field opens to write in.
  
  - Above - outside of the field you find 12 icons. "Quote" is the fourth icon from the left.
  
  - Continue from here. :)

[Tigger]

Q: What is the nature of a me ?

Was this seen directly, experienced directly through one of the following senses - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling?

Or is security an idea, a mind made concept, a thought?

Yes, seen directly but not exactly as one of the senses (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling). It was seen by awareness before the senses.

Yes, security is a concept or thought an added value to seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling.

It was help to take a bit more time with this step by step approach.

Thank you.

[Angelika]

Hello Todd,

Thank you very much for your reply. :)

I would like to begin today with a few words about the tool - we use here in this dialogue - called direct experience.

In direct experience we describe what is seen, heard, smelled, tasted and felt during an exploration.
Thoughts, concepts, mental images are merely noticed and noted for what they are, namely either thougths, concepts, or mental images.


May I give an example. "Knee" as a term points to a concept, which can not be experienced directly.

• If you look at a knee, what do you see?
  
  Is there a sound called "knee"?
  
  Is there a smell called "knee"?
  
  Is there a taste called "knee"?
  
  Is there a feeling called "knee"?

• Please sit with this exploration and look for yourself.
  Please describe as detailed as possible that - what is experienced directly.
  Thank you very much. :)

[Angelika]

PS: I am very happy to see that you have been useing the quote function! Super :)

To simplify matters in this dialogue, could you please use the quote function to quote the questions I have asked and you answer to?

Like this:

If you look at a knee, what do you see?

Here comes your answer.....

Thanks! :)

[Tigger]

If you look at a knee, what do you see?

Is there a sound called "knee"?

Is there a smell called "knee"?

Is there a taste called "knee"?

Is there a feeling called "knee"?

Please sit with this exploration and look for yourself.
Please describe as detailed as possible that - what is experienced directly.

A: No sound, smell, taste, feeling called knee just knee whatever that is. A label. Sound does not make knee-knee. Smell does not make knee-knee etc.. I don't know what a knee is really. The name could never really tell me what a knee is. When I experience the knee I can't directly say where it begins or ends as a subjective reality. I sense it as energy, sensations, of some kind that change. Usually neutral occationally dense, some areas differ in quality, tonality or texture than others from time to time. If I put my attention on knee eventually the mind will refer to a previous relationship with it. I have images, memories, of medical drawings of the knee. Bones, ligament, tendons that's my training.

Thanks

[Angelika]

Hello Todd,

Very well done. :)

Can you tell already the difference of the concept called "knee" and that what has been directly experienced while exploring that - what is called "knee"?

• Can you tell how you look at that particular part of the body called "knee" and how different ideas, thoughts, memories, speculations, etc. arise in the mind?
  
  Can you tell how the concept of "knee" appears to be sort of solid, somewhat unchangable?
  
  Can you tell how that concept of "knee" touches at most a surface of what "knee" really is about?
  
  Can you see how the direct experience of "knee" exposes a changing flux, together with an inherent uncertainty of what will be seen?

Please take your time, sit with the questions, and write down what you explored.

Thank you very much!
:)