Looking for a guide

[Anousha]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for you response and affirmation which helps to ground it all.

It's clear that when we breathe, blink, digest food etc. there's no 'I' involved, but how is it for you when walking?

mmm walking. Who chooses the direction and speed? I seem to get around ok and putting one foot in front of the other is just happening. If I let go of a fixed identity of me I would still get around ok. The difference to the bodily functions seems to be there is some consciousness involved - a volition of my mind and being to go somewhere and speed up or slow down - that can be instinctive like swallowing or a response to what is happening around me. Who chooses to go fast when I have somewhere I need to be soon? A thought tells me 'go and get the 277 bus, that's the quickest way to Mile End tube'.

How is it when doing various everyday things like say, brushing your teeth, washing up, that kind of thing?
Try all kinds of stuff.

There are thoughts which tell this body mind to brush her teeth before and after breakfast. Sometimes the thought does not arise and the action doesn't happen. The thought may arise later that 'I have forgotten to brush my teeth'.

Washing up - I have the thought to weakly offer to do it, but then let my partner gets on with it cos that is what his body/mind loves to do!

Is there any 'I' there for any of these actions, or are they just like 'automatic'?

There are some thoughts that inspire my body to respond and act or ignore the thoughts and do something else.

Will keep looking!! And see what is present!

thanks Pete

warm wishes

Anousha

[moondog]

Hi Anousha,

mmm walking. Who chooses the direction and speed? I seem to get around ok and putting one foot in front of the other is just happening. If I let go of a fixed identity of me I would still get around ok. The difference to the bodily functions seems to be there is some consciousness involved - a volition of my mind and being to go somewhere and speed up or slow down - that can be instinctive like swallowing or a response to what is happening around me. Who chooses to go fast when I have somewhere I need to be soon? A thought tells me 'go and get the 277 bus, that's the quickest way to Mile End tube'.

Sorry for the repetition, but I just want to be sure. Not just when walking, but when you're doing any actions, can you find, in direct experience, evidence of any 'I', any separate self, present doing anything at all?

There are thoughts which tell this body mind to brush her teeth before and after breakfast. Sometimes the thought does not arise and the action doesn't happen. The thought may arise later that 'I have forgotten to brush my teeth'.
There are some thoughts that inspire my body to respond and act or ignore the thoughts and do something else.

I know that thoughts often arises that 'tell' us that we need to carry out a specific task, and then we do it (or we don't) but, remembering what you saw when we looked at thoughts and thinking, and more importantly when looking in direct experience, can you actually find any link or connection between a thought to do something and that action happening? Are they even at the same time, or hasn't the thought already passed?

Doing things and choosing/deciding really overlap a lot, so let's move on to an exercise in deciding.

Raise your right arm (or don’t). In that process of raising the right arm (or not), a decision is made, or at least something happens (or doesn’t). But can you pinpoint the actual moment of choice and find the actual entity that appears to be making that choice? In direct experience, can that moment of choice, that apparent chooser, actually be found? Or does the idea 'I just chose to (not) raise my right arm' come after the event itself?

Also, can I ask you to have a look at the following short video clip from BBC Horizon - The Secret You on Neuroscience and Freewill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3AiOS4nCE . It demonstrates scientifically that our decisions and choices are made a full 6 seconds before we think we make them, i.e. before a thought arises saying, "I decided to do this." There is no substitute for looking in direct experience, but this is excellent scientific corroboration for what is to be found, or rather not found, in direct experience.

Pete x

[Anousha]

Hi Pete,

I did a reply yesterday and thought I had sent it etc but it has gone into the ether. What a drag! Oh dear then I did find it and your reply. I will come back to it tomorrow morning when I feel fresher!

So here we go again on actions

mmmm actions doing and controlling - the actions and doing seem to pretty much be automatic. Thoughts arise and make suggestions to the body to move, speed up, slow down, be more mindful, etc. So this question of control. There is some control in for example walking - how fast or slow, and in what direction. Avoiding things, putting one foot in front of the other seems pretty automatic. But is there a control centre or is it just thoughts bubbling up in consciousness? That seems to be how it feels - just the bubbling! Sometimes there are trains of thoughts that follow on from one another and suggest that I take out my mobile phone, go to maps and find my way to a cafe today. A vague continuity of thoughts that tell my body to pick up the cup to have another sip of coffee. Sometimes this is followed by the appropriate action and sometimes it isn’t!

It's clear that when we breathe, blink, digest food etc. there's no 'I' involved, but how is it for you when walking?

These functions just happen and thoughts may notice them or not.

How is it when doing various everyday things like say, brushing your teeth, washing up, that kind of thing?
Try all kinds of stuff.

Is there any 'I' there for any of these actions, or are they just like 'automatic'?

A thought reminds me to brush my teeth when I go to the bathroom. Sometimes a thought says do it while the water is heating up in the shower. Sometimes it says do it after the shower. But from whence springs the thought! It feels like they just arise out of nowhere.

What is the distinction between this illusory ‘I’ and consciousness? Isn’t there a danger of just replacing a sense of identity - moving it from the illusion to calling it consciousness instead.

When I turn awareness back on itself there is an aware space shall we say, in which there is no thought arising. A place of being which seems to be located in the head space.

I feel resistent to getting into the whole witness and observer thing. What are your thoughts on this?

Cheers

Anousha

[Anousha]

Good morning Pete,

when you're doing any actions, can you find, in direct experience, evidence of any 'I', any separate self, present doing anything at all?

Mostly actions just happen and thoughts may comment on them. There in many actions is no originating fixed pre step to the action.

can you actually find any link or connection between a thought to do something and that action happening? Are they even at the same time, or hasn't the thought already passed?

There may be a coincidence of the thought and the action seeming to happen one after the other. They are not at the same time. And yes the thought may well have passed, even some time ago!

Raise your right arm (or don’t). In that process of raising the right arm (or not), a decision is made, or at least something happens (or doesn’t). But can you pinpoint the actual moment of choice and find the actual entity that appears to be making that choice? In direct experience, can that moment of choice, that apparent chooser, actually be found? Or does the idea 'I just chose to (not) raise my right arm' come after the event itself?

When I raise my right hand it happens as I read with very little conscious processing. It may seem like a decision is made but in this case not really. I cannot find the moment of choice and any thing that appears to be making that choice.

The Secret You on Neuroscience and Freewill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3AiOS4nCE . It demonstrates scientifically that our decisions and choices are made a full 6 seconds before we think we make them, i.e. before a thought arises saying, "I decided to do this." There is no substitute for looking in direct experience, but this is excellent scientific corroboration for what is to be found, or rather not found, in direct experience.

The full 6 seconds thing is interesting. In the experiment it is when the scientist is given the instruction that his brain starts processing that. That does not surprise me. So it is some time later (or not at all) that an impulse to move his hand becomes conscious. When I hear or see a stimulus there is a response . Sometimes that hits a conscious place of processing the trigger. Sometimes and probably most of the time the brain does respond but there is no awareness. It is automatic pilot time. Most of the brain activity just rolls on and on with blissful unawareness! That feels like a relief! I feel a space of just trusting the process and that there is very little that the ‘I’ based thinking actually needs to do.

Well I am off to your part of the world today - Glastonbury for the weekend and will be back on line Monday morning.

Best wishes
Anousha

[moondog]

Hi Anousha,

...when you're doing any actions, can you find, in direct experience, evidence of any 'I', any separate self, present doing anything at all?

Mostly actions just happen and thoughts may comment on them. There in many actions is no originating fixed pre step to the action.

I note that you say 'mostly actions just happen' and 'in many actions there is no originating first step', rather than all actions. Why is that? Can you see in direct experience that, in relation to some actions, there is a separate self present doing something? If not, why don't you say 'all actions'?

There may be a coincidence of the thought and the action seeming to happen one after the other. They are not at the same time. And yes the thought may well have passed, even some time ago!

I'm glad that you can clearly see that.

Sometimes there are trains of thoughts that follow on from one another and suggest that I take out my mobile phone, go to maps and find my way to a cafe today. A vague continuity of thoughts that tell my body to pick up the cup to have another sip of coffee. Sometimes this is followed by the appropriate action and sometimes it isn’t!

Yes, if there really was a 'you' controlling 'you' by telling 'you' what to do via thought, the appropriate action would always and unfailingly (barring 'outside' intervention) be the outcome wouldn't it?

What is the distinction between this illusory ‘I’ and consciousness? Isn’t there a danger of just replacing a sense of identity - moving it from the illusion to calling it consciousness instead.

Consciousness is awareness. Awareness isn't an object but that to which/in which all objects appear and disappear. The illusory 'I' is just a thought, an object arising in awareness. So long as you see that the non-existence of a separate self is just that and don't reify that non-existence so that it becomes a substitute 'thing', there should be no problem.

I feel resistant to getting into the whole witness and observer thing. What are your thoughts on this?

When looking in direct experience can you find a witness or an observer, or is there just witnessing, observing, experiencing?

So Anousha, I think this has all gone really well so far. You've looked at seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling and touching, thinking, acting/doing, controlling, choosing and deciding and you've not found so much as a trace of a separate self.

One area where we haven't yet looked yet is the body, and whether the self is the body, or is in the body. From direct experience:

Does the body experience sensations and thoughts?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinaesthetic)?

I hope you enjoyed the lovely, strange place that is Glastonbury :)

Pete x

[Anousha]

I note that you say 'mostly actions just happen' and 'in many actions there is no originating first step', rather than all actions. Why is that? Can you see in direct experience that, in relation to some actions, there is a separate self present doing something? If not, why don't you say 'all actions'?

I reckon the that ‘mostly’ and ‘in many actions’ qualification there in abides a residue of doubt. The ‘I’ thought wants to keep itself intact and thought wants to retain its illusory control and doesn’t want to completely let go; but just let go enough to have a more allowing spacious relationship with the objects arising and the actions happening. The demon doubt that lets this body/mind get so far in releasing herself from the baggage and suffering that comes from the illusion of the fixed self but can’t quite take the final leap. Well spotted Pete!

When looking in direct experience can you find a witness or an observer, or is there just witnessing, observing, experiencing?

Just witnessing, observing and experiencing is the natural day to day experience of being here in this dimension. All is process and subtle movement - nothing stays still moment by moment.

One area where we haven't yet looked yet is the body, and whether the self is the body, or is in the body. From direct experience:

Does the body experience sensations and thoughts?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinaesthetic)?

This body which I can see, touch, have thoughts about is a collection of cells, organs, fluids and all sorts of other things that has a semblance of continuity - it looks and feels similar day to day but there are also changes happening to it all the time. I have thoughts about it and it does things which my thoughts and feelings react and respond to in each moment. No I don’t think the body thinks!! I can have a sense that sometimes the body seems to know better than my thoughts as to where to move, what to do and what direction to take. It seems to do its own thing at times irrespective of what my thoughts tell it to do! ‘A body wisdom’ that perhaps each cell has - but this is just a view!

There is a relationship between this mass of cells and different parts of the brain - pathways, meridians and so on. The body just does its own thing. Sometimes body, mind, thoughts all go in one direction and I feel present in this body, awareness is and it includes body sensing. Yes, the body is a thought label for sensations. The experiencing of those sensations triggers thoughts (beliefs, opinions, reactions, memories, emotions) in consciousness. There is an intimate relationship between these cells, nervous pathways, brain, skin, muscles and so on - a co dependence that gives rise to life and life energy.

That's all for now

warm wishes

Anousha

[moondog]

Hi Anousha,

I reckon the that ‘mostly’ and ‘in many actions’ qualification there in abides a residue of doubt. The ‘I’ thought wants to keep itself intact and thought wants to retain its illusory control and doesn’t want to completely let go; but just let go enough to have a more allowing spacious relationship with the objects arising and the actions happening. The demon doubt that lets this body/mind get so far in releasing herself from the baggage and suffering that comes from the illusion of the fixed self but can’t quite take the final leap. Well spotted Pete!

It's good that you recognise that it's just in thoughts that these residual doubts reside.
I know that when say that thought doesn't want to completely relinquish control, you probably mean this metaphorically, but it could also be another way of referring to the self not wanting to let go. So, I just need to be sure.

When you look in direct experience, can you find thoughts either wanting or trying to hold on to a vestige of control, or are there just thoughts arising that 'say' that; which can then either be taken as reflective of reality and be believed, or can seen for what they are? Just conceptual message strings.

Just witnessing, observing and experiencing is the natural day to day experience of being here in this dimension. All is process and subtle movement - nothing stays still moment by moment.

Nicely put.

This body which I can see, touch, have thoughts about is a collection of cells, organs, fluids and all sorts of other things that has a semblance of continuity - it looks and feels similar day to day but there are also changes happening to it all the time. I have thoughts about it and it does things which my thoughts and feelings react and respond to in each moment. No I don’t think the body thinks!! I can have a sense that sometimes the body seems to know better than my thoughts as to where to move, what to do and what direction to take. It seems to do its own thing at times irrespective of what my thoughts tell it to do! ‘A body wisdom’ that perhaps each cell has - but this is just a view!
There is a relationship between this mass of cells and different parts of the brain - pathways, meridians and so on. The body just does its own thing. Sometimes body, mind, thoughts all go in one direction and I feel present in this body, awareness is and it includes body sensing. Yes, the body is a thought label for sensations. The experiencing of those sensations triggers thoughts (beliefs, opinions, reactions, memories, emotions) in consciousness. There is an intimate relationship between these cells, nervous pathways, brain, skin, muscles and so on - a co dependence that gives rise to life and life energy.

Great descriptions!

So, to conclusively home in on this, ignoring what you intellectually know about the body, and so entirely from 'your' direct experience, can you find 'a body' apart from, or in addition to, sensations? If so, what is it? Please describe it.

Can you find a separate self within or as 'bodily' sensations? If you can, please describe how that is experienced.

Pete x

[Anousha]

Hi Pete,

I know that when say that thought doesn't want to completely relinquish control, you probably mean this metaphorically, but it could also be another way of referring to the self not wanting to let go. So, I just need to be sure.

Yes, It is the self not wanting to let go but seeing as that is not really real then it is that thoughts want to hang on to the thoughts that support the idea of a fixed self. Does that make sense?

When you look in direct experience, can you find thoughts either wanting or trying to hold on to a vestige of control, or are there just thoughts arising that 'say' that; which can then either be taken as reflective of reality and be believed, or can seen for what they are? Just conceptual message strings.

The thoughts arise and can be believed or seen as the supporters of certain concepts. Can you say a bit more about conceptual message strings?

So, to conclusively home in on this, ignoring what you intellectually know about the body, and so entirely from 'your' direct experience, can you find 'a body' apart from, or in addition to, sensations? If so, what is it? Please describe it.

I can see a ‘body’. I can feel the sensations that arise in the body. I can touch parts of the body with other parts of my body!

I had a familiar feeling of fluttering sensations in my belly this morning prior to work and in the past I have attached these sensations as signifying the anxiety of the self. I have related to them as evidence of the kind of person I am - an ‘anxious’ person who doesn’t want to go to work: A fixed part of ‘me’, as they are quite regularly felt sensations when there are certain external and thought based triggers. Sometimes they just arise on waking prior to thought. Today I experienced them just as sensations arising.

Can you find a separate self within or as 'bodily' sensations? If you can, please describe how that is experienced.

No.

All the best

Anousha

[moondog]

Hi Anousha,

Yes, It is the self not wanting to let go but seeing as that is not really real then it is that thoughts want to hang on to the thoughts that support the idea of a fixed self. Does that make sense?

Yes it does. It makes perfect sense.

The thoughts arise and can be believed or seen as the supporters of certain concepts. Can you say a bit more about conceptual message strings?

That was just a phrase that came up as I was writing to you. I just meant (me being metaphorical this time) that thoughts are really just kind of strings or threads of data or concepts, 'presenting' a message, but nothing more. They don't actually refer to anything in a real or meaningful way.

I can see a ‘body’. I can feel the sensations that arise in the body. I can touch parts of the body with other parts of my body!

I can see that you really do get this, so this is just me being super careful, dotting all the i's, crossing all the t's etc., but can you really actually see (or hear, taste, touch, smell) an actual entity that is 'a body' in direct experience? I can see from your other comments that 'you' experience a spectrum of 'bodily sensations' that are then quickly labelled 'body', but is there also an entity called 'body' there too?

I had a familiar feeling of fluttering sensations in my belly this morning prior to work and in the past I have attached these sensations as signifying the anxiety of the self. I have related to them as evidence of the kind of person I am - an ‘anxious’ person who doesn’t want to go to work: A fixed part of ‘me’, as they are quite regularly felt sensations when there are certain external and thought based triggers. Sometimes they just arise on waking prior to thought. Today I experienced them just as sensations arising.

Excellent Anousha. I'm really pleased that you can now see that as it happens.

Can you find a separate self within or as 'bodily' sensations? If you can, please describe how that is experienced.

No.

Great.

I've now pointed you towards all the areas of experience where a separate self might be hanging out and, although you've looked thoroughly for one, you haven't found such an entity anywhere. Before I send you a list of 'sweep-up' questions to review what we've done so far and to see whether we need to revisit any areas or aspects, I'd like you first just look from a different perspective:

With 'you' revealed as a thought story, what remains?

What experiences?

What thinks?

What does?

What is aware?

Pete x

[Anousha]

Hi Pete

I can see that you really do get this, so this is just me being super careful, dotting all the i's, crossing all the t's etc., but can you really actually see (or hear, taste, touch, smell) an actual entity that is 'a body' in direct experience? I can see from your other comments that 'you' experience a spectrum of 'bodily sensations' that are then quickly labelled 'body', but is there also an entity called 'body' there too?

I guess ‘body’ is a shorthand for all that the senses perceive. No, there is no one fixed entity that can be apprehended by the senses that actually is a ‘body’ as such. Mostly the letting go of body as being some extension of ‘Me’ is when I shut my eyes and try to sense where this body starts and ends - it does not exist within a fixed space - it is a combination of ever changing phenomena. It does extend outside what I can see and sense in many ways - where this mass starts and ends is not fixed and keeps changing. When I look in the mirror I see a familiar pattern that I label as me having a good day or bad day!

With 'you' revealed as a thought story, what remains?

Sense experience, memories that appear as fleeting thoughts, emotions that arise and pass on their way;

What experiences?

Moment by moment by moment sensations and feelings - there is experiencing.

What thinks?

Thoughts well up and appear in consciousness - some just pass and others get hooked onto. I cannot find the origin of thoughts.

What does?

Parts of my brain which are beyond consciousness stimulate actions - I can’t find the source of these actions in my direct experience.

What is aware?

Awareness just is. LIfe is aware.

So the question that is arising is along the lines of - In seeing through and dropping the idea of a fixed unchanging immutable self - isn’t it that the inner programme has just been re programmed with a new idea that is probably more in tune with how things really are? Or is it an actual shift in one’s being - a real dropping of a notion that really does not serve life. And I am guessing that is is maybe the area that your final questions may delve into. And I am aware that it is the thoughts that doubt!

Bestest Kate

[moondog]

Hi Anousha,

guess ‘body’ is a shorthand for all that the senses perceive. No, there is no one fixed entity that can be apprehended by the senses that actually is a ‘body’ as such. Mostly the letting go of body as being some extension of ‘Me’ is when I shut my eyes and try to sense where this body starts and ends - it does not exist within a fixed space - it is a combination of ever changing phenomena. It does extend outside what I can see and sense in many ways - where this mass starts and ends is not fixed and keeps changing. When I look in the mirror I see a familiar pattern that I label as me having a good day or bad day!

Excellent. Thank you :-)

Awareness just is. LIfe is aware.

Oh yes! All your answers around 'this' are just fine.

So the question that is arising is along the lines of - In seeing through and dropping the idea of a fixed unchanging immutable self - isn’t it that the inner programme has just been re programmed with a new idea that is probably more in tune with how things really are? Or is it an actual shift in one’s being - a real dropping of a notion that really does not serve life. And I am guessing that is is maybe the area that your final questions may delve into. And I am aware that it is the thoughts that doubt!

Yes, it's those pesky thoughts again isn't it? First, I'd ask you whether you've ever found any 'inner programming' in direct experience, or even any 'inner' or 'outer'.

The main point really though is that, as you now clearly see, the separate self is just an idea, just a thought, albeit very powerful and seductive. When it is seen by looking in direct experience that there's no actual self-entity, that seeing, that knowing, isn't merely a concept or a belief. It's something that's been discovered and is now known, much as it's known that there's just no Santa, unicorns, Batman etc. In fact to say it's 'something' that's been discovered is too much. It's absence, non-existence, just not there. 'No self', or any equivalent phrase, can only become a replacement concept if it's allowed to be reificied and so that it then becomes a belief in its own right. But it's just not that. Whenever you look there's no self there. Whenever thoughts arise telling you there really is a self, you can see that for what it is: total bullshit. That's all there is to it. But you know that.

Anyway Kate, you've now looked at all areas of direct experience and you haven't found a self-entity lurking there anywhere. So, I think now's a good time, before we move to 'final questions', just briefly to review everything we've done so far, to see if you need to revisit any aspects to look in more depth for any evidence of a self-entity anywhere at all

As always, in direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

And finally:

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

It might seem like a bit if a long list of questions but the answers can be brief unless, of course, there's something you want to examine some more. It doesn't look to me as if there is much, if anything, but basically, we just need to tidy up and identify any areas that need to be looked into a bit more deeply, or clarified.

Pete x

[Anousha]

Hi Pete

I'd ask you whether you've ever found any 'inner programming' in direct experience, or even any 'inner' or 'outer'.

A later answer I had was that when those doubting thoughts arise then it is just a signal to point back into experience and to enquire if I can grasp an inner self or not. It always comes back to experiencing and seeing for oneself in any moment.

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

No, just an idea of a self and even that comes and goes.

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

My thoughts love to believe that they are running the show and want to make this being believe that they control actions. But when I look doing just does.

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

This is a funny one! Recently I made a big decision and as I reflected on that it was so clear the decision just arose and was acted on and that always delights and still surprises me. And thought dilemmas which can be a fun thing to pursue, often again the decision just arises not related to any of the thought processes going on.

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

They arise unbidden and often unwanted!

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Well there is this mass of energy and matter that gives ongoing information to my senses.

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

They are just there - doing their thing

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

No. But the question of others is interesting! I am wondering if I do see all of them as fixed selves!! Maybe some more pondering on this!

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Yes the self is a ‘mental fabrication’ which separates this organism from LIFE

And finally:

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

My thoughts find it hard to write an unequivocal No! But I will - NO!

Have a good day

Anousha

[moondog]

Hi Anousha,

Thanks for your open, straightforward replies. It's very clear to me, not only that you've seen that there's just no separate self anywhere, and never was, but also that this is clear to you as well.

So, here are the final questions Kate. When answering question 5, please give specific and very recent examples from direct experience. Once I get your answers, and have clarified anything I might need to, I'll put them forward for to the guides for any comments. I'll then arrange for you to get access to the various 'aftercare' and other groups on Facebook and the LU site. These are very friendly, helpful and supportive forums where you can discuss any issues relating to having seen that there's no separate self. Initially,it can be very helpful to talk with other folks who have also recently gated. So, if you do want to join the FB groups, please either let me know your details here or, if you prefer, PM them to me.

Always from direct experience:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for?

Please give examples from recent experience.

6) Anything to add?

I'm really pleased for you :)

Pete x

[Anousha]

hi Pete,

This is my first stab at these questions. Let me know if I need to elaborate or you want elaboration.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. It is an idea supported by the people and society around me, which does not serve life. An idea that is not in accord with how things are.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It is a collection of self views and world views that started pretty young. I was judged and described by others in certain ways; told that I was a certain kind of person; blamed, criticised and praised. I believed my thoughts. One set of thoughts could be labelled as an internal judging voice with thoughts that supported a particular view of this mind/being/energy and labelled as ‘me’, ‘myself’ and ‘I’. I was told that I was responsible for all my actions and that bad things that happened were my fault. This was confusing as actions, decisions, plans seemed to just happen! With this view experiencing life is not left as just experiencing.

Thoughts appropriate experience and make it mean something about me or the world. Thoughts are not left just as thinking, as thought forms which bubble up and pass away. With the repetition of certain kinds of thoughts arising and getting latched onto the sense of a fixed ‘I’ got embedded. Others reactions become another source of thoughts and stories that reinforce a false notion of a ‘me’.

The illusion of a separate self is just that - an illusion, something of no substance, ephemeral, ever-changing, a mirage, a dream that never was and never will be. It certainly is not a comforting notion nor has it ever produced any benefits or relief from suffering. In fact quite the contrary. This dream is a key producer of pain, anxiety, depression and a whole heap more. Even when this idea couches itself in positive terms it is not in tune with existence and keeps one separate from the LIFE.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel a greater clarity, openness and sense of perspective being with experiencing, seeing, sensing just as it is. I notice greater relaxation and ease in life - being with the reactions of mind and body just as they are; I was doing some supply teaching this week and this is a situation in which my body feels some tension, unpleasant sensations and aversion/anxious thoughts. In the past there was an interpretation of early morning belly sensations as meaning that ‘I am an anxious person still despite years of spiritual practice’. The thoughts surrounding that belly experience fed into a 'feeling bad about myself' collection of thoughts. This week being with those sensations as just body sensations, neither ignoring them nor giving them a particular meaning allowed an openness to that as part of experiencing moment by moment - arising, being with and passing. Sensations just are what they are! There was a richness in my experience, that felt all encompassing.

In dialogues with friends I have noticed an absence of pushing a version of ‘me’ into words; an absence of an assertion of a ‘myself’ picture. In that there is an ease and resting in awareness; presence that is open and all encompassing. And strangely enough a deepening of connection that is already there and does not need to be made to happen by an illusory ‘I’. I recognise an energy what wanted to promote 'me' or get 'myself understood and a labelling of 'myself' and its experience is absent. Phew what a relief!

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I don’t know. It just kind of crept up and took over! No ‘big’ experience!
I appreciated the questions each day pushing me to looking and enquiring within. Any doubts could be investigated and found wanting and not based in actual experience.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from recent experience.

Decision - These just arise; There is an interaction between different parts of the brain, sense organs, different kinds of triggers that set off reactions which may manifest in a decision arising.

Intention - Thoughts may voice an intention. But actually the intention was already present in unconsciousness prior to consciousness. Intentioning is happening all the time. There is a direction or river flowing of intention - which is interpreted and labelled by some thoughts. Even when there are no thoughts or feelings there is this being intentionioning. It may bear little or no resemblance or relationship with physical actions.

Free will - I don’t know! Is there or isn’t there? This is a very big subject!! There is willing! How free it is I don’t know! With the absence of a notion of a fixed ‘I’ there is a genuine sense of freedom.

Choice - Choices are being made all the time by various parts of the brain. Sometimes thoughts appear to coincide with certain choices. Sometimes the left hand or right hand does something and the mind interprets this as a conscious choice which it was not! There are also habit formations - something which appears to my mind as a choice is just a habit of this mind/body continuum.

Control - Oh dear - not a lot! If I had a fixed self then I could surely control everything in my experience. I would be able to exert will and intention to everything everyday and there would be a good chance that what the control set in motion could be seen through and would manifest unless obstructed by other’s control! But even in the absence of others I can see that there is very little control. Life is just happening.

I have no idea what I am responsible for!

Anything to add?

No.


All the best Pete

Anousha

[moondog]

Hi Anousha,

Lovely answers. Thank you. Just a couple of points to save the other guides seeking clarification.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from recent experience.

Control - Oh dear - not a lot! If I had a fixed self then I could surely control everything in my experience. I would be able to exert will and intention to everything everyday and there would be a good chance that what the control set in motion could be seen through and would manifest unless obstructed by other’s control! But even in the absence of others I can see that there is very little control. Life is just happening.

You say "control ... not a lot!" and "even in the absence of others I can see that there is very little control". This could be interpreted as meaning that you do still believe that there is, at least sometimes, an entity that retains a modicum of control.

Can you please clarify that Anousha. Can you find anything at all, anywhere in 'your' direct experience, that indicates a separate entity, a self, that controls. If so, please describe it, and explain how it works. If not, why don't you simply say there's no control exercised by any entity?

I have no idea what I am responsible for!

Is there any 'you' to be responsible?

Also, in relation to any of: decision, intention, free will, choice and control, please give examples. You only need describe a couple of very recent, simple, everyday examples, no more than that.

These questions may seem a bit 'obvious' at this stage but that's the point really. I just want there to as much clarity as possible.

Love,

Pete