Looking for a guide

[Jiten76]

Hi Tao

So it is clear that 'past' has no reality, other than thoughts and sensations happening now. Past is a story, happening now.

This somehow does not seems to be clear.

It is clear that there are thoughts, feelings and sensations are happening now which mind labels with thought as happened in past.

1) if I use the word remembrance happens now, then it implicitly means that something did happen in the past which is being remembered now.

2) other possibility is that thoughts, feelings and sensations (TFS) are happening now along with a present & persistent thought that "yes it happened in the past"..

So if that persistent thought is somehow not there then there is no past....So nothing ever happened except for what is happening now?????...Whatever is happening now..other than that nothing ever happened.....So there is nothing to be scared,,nothing to defend..nothing to plan..

..I am writing this because belief in past and its grip is still present as it was before....

essential realization/knowing/understanding that there is really no past except thoughts now is somehow not acceptable...there is a persistent thought which says past matters, it happened (may in now but in the past, say 2 years ago).....what about consequences of past event/Actions..are they not to be worth planning/defending..? if someone meets with an accidents and injures his leg...after one day...if he remembers the accident...then the accident would be remembered with imagination/thoughts and sensations now...but did it happen?

also my understanding of direct experience is to "See" without interpretation of thoughts.....normally mind labels everything being seen and sensed...and later/then thought labels thoughts etc......

somehow the importance of direct seeing has not sinked in....somehow it feels like reality (issues of life) is being avoided by direct looking....direct looking means considering every thought to be a imagination..."thoughts are real but no thought points to anything real".............thought strongly says that some thoughts are important, real and useful...without thoughts you can't live...how can u even think that thoughts do not point to real..thought may not point to real but they definitely point to useful, important and worth considering/pondering..taking action......

please help clarifying this.

Thanks
Jitendra

[Jiten76]

I am driving a motor bike and hit a bolder and break my left bone. i experience pain and many thoughts about i should have been more careful and this will result in loss of money and inconvenience...next day i am sitting and thinking yesterday i had this horrible accident which could have been avoided.....

I am driving a motor bike

---------- this is what thought tell me to describe the experience...direct experience is of some picture and sensations only.

break my left bone.

--------- Again thought says this. direct experience is of some sensations labeled as pain.

next day

------ this is again a thought which describes the current moment as next day?

I am sitting

------- again this is a thought but direct experience is of some sensations only?

Thinking yesterday i had this horrible accident which could have been avoided

---------------- this is again thought.

so in awareness there are thoughts, feelings and sensations ( I will use TFS going forward)......appearing one after the others and

unless thought says that this TFS came after this TFS there is no experience of time

...

unless thought says yesterday and today there is no reality to "yesterday" and "today"

am i getting it right?

Thanks
Jiten

[Tao]

Hi Jiten

1) if I use the word remembrance happens now, then it implicitly means that something did happen in the past which is being remembered now.

Remembering isn't actually what is happening. Thought and feeling is happening.

2) other possibility is that thoughts, feelings and sensations (TFS) are happening now along with a present & persistent thought that "yes it happened in the past"..

Yes this is much closer to what is happening in DE. You may also find a feeling/sensation that seems to support that sense of 'it happened in the past'. A sense of 'realness' or 'familiarity'. Have a look.

So if that persistent thought is somehow not there then there is no past....So nothing ever happened except for what is happening now?????...Whatever is happening now..other than that nothing ever happened.....So there is nothing to be scared,,nothing to defend..nothing to plan..

Exactly. There is no past, how can there be? This is it.

The thoughts that strongly suggest there was a past, happen now.

The felt sense of 'I am an entity that is travelling on a timeline from past to future' - happens now.

There is nothing that doesn't happen now.

..I am writing this because belief in past and its grip is still present as it was before....

You mean thoughts are still present, along with other thoughts and feelings that say 'this was in the past'? Who says there is any grip, is that another sensation? Is it actually gripping to anything?

Who is believing them?

essential realization/knowing/understanding that there is really no past except thoughts now is somehow not acceptable...there is a persistent thought which says past matters, it happened (may in now but in the past, say 2 years ago).....what about consequences of past event/Actions..are they not to be worth planning/defending..? if someone meets with an accidents and injures his leg...after one day...if he remembers the accident...then the accident would be remembered with imagination/thoughts and sensations now...but did it happen?

'Injured leg' is an idea

'leg' is an idea

'I had an accident yesterday and injured my leg', is an idea.

Ideas appear now, with a 'me' or an 'other than me' as a theme. Is there a me outside of these ideas? If so, where is it?

Ideas don't come from a 'me', they imagine the 'me'

also my understanding of direct experience is to "See" without interpretation of thoughts.....normally mind labels everything being seen and sensed...and later/then thought labels thoughts etc......

direct experience is not to SEE without thoughts, it is to see all things as they are, including thoughts as they arise. Do you expect thoughts and feelings to dissappear? What would that be like? who says they go anywhere? Who are they affecting?

somehow the importance of direct seeing has not sinked in....somehow it feels like reality (issues of life) is being avoided by direct looking....direct looking means considering every thought to be a imagination..."thoughts are real but no thought points to anything real".............thought strongly says that some thoughts are important, real and useful...without thoughts you can't live...how can u even think that thoughts do not point to real..thought may not point to real but they definitely point to useful, important and worth considering/pondering..taking action......

please help clarifying this.

I discovered this video today. He beautifully describes DE, have a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB2Itt5KQU8

Tao

[Tao]

am i getting it right?

Yes spot on. Do you SEE that this is what is happening? TFS are just arising now. They don't mean anything. That the TFS means anything is just more TFS, happening now.

Tao

[Jiten76]

Do you SEE that this is what is happening? TFS are just arising now. They don't mean anything. That the TFS means anything is just more TFS, happening now.

No I don't see this..i just got this insight while writing..

TFS are just arising now. They don't mean anything

I need to work on this..

That the TFS means anything is just more TFS, happening now.

this seems to be the key

today was a bad day...writing here always help.

Thanks
Jiten

[Jiten76]

There is nothing that doesn't happen now.

I agree..but does this mean that

there is no past

and

therefore nothing happened.

TFS-1 (thought, feelings, sensations) appears, TFS-2 appears and there is a third TFS-3 which says TFS-1 happened first and TFS-2 happened next....

TFS-3 -- "TFS-1 happened first and TFS-2 happened next" ---- is happening now

....instead of seeing this as a simple thought appearing now...........you need more TFS which will say " it means TFS1 and TFS2 happened"...again this is not taken as simple thought with no meaning...another TFS which says "how can you say TFS-1" did not happen?...again this is not seen as thought and next thought "so it means TFS-1 and TFS-2 did happen"...next..."if you remember so clearly then how can it has not happened"...."it definitely has happened"..."you would be a stupid to agreed blindly that this has not happened"..."it happened"...."I agree this happened"...

can we ever logically prove that "nothing happened".......

[Jiten76]

So what it essentially means that remembrance is a lie/false/Not true???????????? it is only thought which refers to past and next thought says it happened... if this is seen as a "thought only" happening now then there is no past and nothing happened.

[Jiten76]

it also means that in following sentence

TFS-1 (thought, feelings, sensations) appears, TFS-2 appears and there is a third TFS-3 which says TFS-1 happened first and TFS-2 happened next....

TFS-1 (thought, feelings, sensations) appears

------ is not true...if it is certain that it appears then it happened..so what does this mean?????

[Jiten76]

Hi Tao,

today also I experienced intense fear with freezing effect...I tried sitting and just feel through it but it was very overpowering...happens very frequently...can you please give some suggestions on how to see through it?

thanks
Jiten

[Tao]

Hi Jiten

I agree..but does this mean that


TFS-1 (thought, feelings, sensations) appears, TFS-2 appears and there is a third TFS-3 which says TFS-1 happened first and TFS-2 happened next....

TFS-3 -- "TFS-1 happened first and TFS-2 happened next" ---- is happening now

....instead of seeing this as a simple thought appearing now...........you need more TFS which will say " it means TFS1 and TFS2 happened"...again this is not taken as simple thought with no meaning...another TFS which says "how can you say TFS-1" did not happen?...again this is not seen as thought and next thought "so it means TFS-1 and TFS-2 did happen"...next..."if you remember so clearly then how can it has not happened"...."it definitely has happened"..."you would be a stupid to agreed blindly that this has not happened"..."it happened"...."I agree this happened"...

can we ever logically prove that "nothing happened"......

We cannot prove anything on a logical / conceptual level. A concept is a concept, just an idea. Ideas only lead to more ideas, and more ideas, and more ideas. This can't be figured out by more TFS, TFS won't give you an answer. Thoughts just don't get it. The answer is not complex, it is nothing that needs to be figured out, just look at actual experience. It is profoundly simple, there is just THIS, here, now.

Time and distance - Are either of these found in direct experience? Can you see how time and distance is 'imagined' by TFS?

The difference between 'then' and 'then' is a thought. There are no 'moments' (real events) that can be captured into a memory. Thought creates the idea of 2 different moments, and the length of time between them.

The 'difference' between TFS 1 and TFS 2 is a thought. In actual experience there is no TFS 1 and TFS 2, there is just TFS.

This can't be figured out by thoughts, just look directly at thoughts, see how they create time, moments in time, and distance. In actual experience, there is no time and distance, there are no moments in time. Just this, now.

today also I experienced intense fear with freezing effect...I tried sitting and just feel through it but it was very overpowering...happens very frequently...can you please give some suggestions on how to see through it?

Resist nothing and don't assume the fear should not be there. Welcome the fear. See that nothing is resisting anything

Where is the entity that can be affected (in any way) by the fear? Look into the fear until you find the entity that is affected or at threat.

Tao

[Jiten76]

Thanks Tao. will work on this.

[Jiten76]

Hi Tao,

Not well from yesterday. May not reply till tomorrow..

Simple looking has been always a "doing" for me where default starting position is "lets look".....and then me is always in the background feeling sense while doing this exercise...

thanks
jiten

[Tao]

Simple looking has been always a "doing" for me where default starting position is "lets look".....and then me is always in the background feeling sense while doing this exercise...

No problem. Yes I see what you are saying. 'Let's look' is a figure of speech. Who/what is looking? SEE what is happening. What is the 'me' that is in the background? What is it comprised of? Subtle thoughts or feelings?

Tao

[Jiten76]

Hi Ta,

Still not well. Don't have the energy to look into this. just wanted to inform you. will get back as soon as I am well.

Thanks
Jitendra

[Tao]

Ok no problem,

Tao