Guide Available - Let's Have a Look, Shall We?

[Usha]

Sorry i forgot to delete the last line of your reply in my reply and your name :)

[jeronimo]

Hi Usha

More questions! Great :)

Questioning is good. Notice how you're questioning and what you're questioning. You cannot see this by using logic and understanding how it all works. We're playing a different game here. Logic and understanding has gotten all of us into this mess to begin with ;)

You have seen something here ... and now thoughts are challenging with a need to understand.

Let's see where we are. Let's pick it apart.

And do not worry about your answers. We’re looking for 100% honesty from your own experience. It’s not a test for entry into the Truth or Non-Duality club. Those are words/concepts that are loaded. There is no "right" or "wrong". And we'll go until you get it.

I can directly see that there is just experience

This is important. Rest with that for a moment. You can see directly that there is just experience.

but logic says that there is an experiencer somewhere to experience all this otherwise what’s the point to all of this?

Logic is useful in proving something, but we’re not here to prove anything. And I’m not here to answer your questions. You are here to look and see what you find.

Logically, it would seem that there's an experiencer. Logic requires the use of language. Our language demands a subject and an object. The subject of "your" experience is you. But there's no you!

You've seen that there is no separate 'you' (subject) experiencing (some object). You've said that it - experience - happens automatically.

So, then, who/what is doing the experiencing?

Could it be simply happening?
Just experience?
And happening to no-thing? No-body?

Maybe another exercise:
Stand up. Close your eyes. What do you feel? What are the sensations? Can you feel your foot? Or do you just feel sensation that is then labeled “foot touching the ground?"

Do you feel a foot?
Or is there simply an experience of sensation?

You = thought. Foot = thought. The subject and object are just thoughts.
The sensation is what's happening before the thought label "my" "foot".

but obviously it feels like thoughts appear IN the field of experience/ awareness.
Awareness has no boundaries and is not thought of like a container, its just like everything that experiences.

Language fails us a bit here, perhaps. Are thoughts apart from "everything" ?

In my direct experience, all it is, is just experience of seeing, feeling, thoughts, tasting, smelling and hearing.

Is it experience of seeing, or just simply seeing?
Does someone see or is seeing just happening?

Can you feel the difference?

Touch the keyboard. Who is doing the touching? Where it the control? We've established that it's simply happening... is anyone doing (controlling) the typing? Or is typing happening?

Seeing, feeling, thoughts, tasting, smelling, hearing, awareness ... all happening.

I can’t find the mind but isn’t that which does the labelling of all that is experienced and thus direct experience is hindered. If its not the mind then where does labelling or language come from?

You can't find the mind because it's not there as a separate entity. It's a concept. What you've noticed is that labelling happens. The labels are thought.

Where do thoughts come from?
Can you find where you next thought is coming form?
Where does it originate from?

Look. Really look for it.

Can you find a source?

Thoughts appear in the Field or Awareness but don’t come from the mind

Thoughts appear. The "Field" / "Awareness" appears. Just another thought. Do thoughts appear within other thoughts?

As I asked previously, if experience is not labelled by the mind then how does it get labelled and how do we come up with so much vocabulary to confuse us and how does the experiencing gets mistaken as a real objective world in the first place?

WHO wants to know?! :)

You won't get this by trying to "understand" it. That would simply add a new belief into the system. Another thought that appears.

(the mind is experienced) By seeing our mistake of labelling things as different objects instead of just seeing them as a sensory experience .

There is sensation. There is labelling of sensation. Where's the mind in all of this?

I know all these answers are contradicting the Truth about Non-duality where all is just one without any distinction of mind or experiencer and I understand that’s where you are trying to lead me but I am unable to feel that and these questions remain which make me stuck until I can logically understand their answers.

After looking based on my responses above, let me know where "you" are still stuck. Nothing makes you stuck. Stuckness is just what's happening.

The distinction will not be understood using logic/language. You will "see" it. There is no arguing your way into it.

That's why we use the method of pointing. You take a close look for yourself and see what you find.

Have a go and let me know where we are.

Love

Jeronimo

[Usha]

Hi Jeronimo,
This is just to say a quick hello and let you know that I read your reply and understand that I will need to observe a few sticky bits more clearly. I will reply you more thoroughly on Saturday as have got a few hectic days till the weekend, so don't find the time to sit with this and see clearly what you are saying.
Thanks a lot for your patience with me :)
Love and Gratitude
Usha

[jeronimo]

Ok, Usha

Keep in mind, however, that longer breaks in our daily communication will loosen the container that we've been working with. This can lead to belief/thoughts/ideas creeping back in. Just a little warning!

Even though you're busy, please take the time each day to really look.

Take one part of our conversation at a time. We don't need to get there all at once.

But please, stay on task!

Love

Jeronimo

[Usha]

Thanks Jeronimo for the advice about not taking longer breaks :)
I completely understand that and I have actually taken this time to look at all the daily activities both work and leisure. Clear seeing happens when I look for that direct experience but it dissolves back to seeing the usual worldly way when not alert. I find when negative emotions arise, it serves more like a reminder to look clearly at the direct experience. Even pain, recently cut my finger served as a good exercise to isolate the feeling of pain arising in me rather than the whole jumbled thought of ‘oh! I cut my finger and its so bad blah blah..’. Surprisingly the feeling of raw pain when isolated and felt fully didn’t last for very long and then the bleeding was just visual effect again observed as seeing and not connecting it to my finger.

So, then, who/what is doing the experiencing?
Do you feel a foot?
Or is there simply an experience of sensation?

Yes, true! In direct experience I cannot see or feel any experiencer but its just the sensation of touch that happens. Thoughts then label the touch as two separate objects touching each other but in direct experience different objects are not experienced as well !

Are thoughts apart from "everything" ?

Thoughts are also just an experience like everything else.

Is it experience of seeing, or just simply seeing?
Does someone see or is seeing just happening?

Yes its just seeing but language just assumes that anything is ‘of’ something but again in true direct experience, seeing is not of an object or by a subject, its just seeing :)

You can't find the mind because it's not there as a separate entity. It's a concept. What you've noticed is that labelling happens. The labels are thought.

Yes labelling is just thoughts arising and that’s the same like seeing, touching or anything that is happening, nothing different and that is clearly seen. Yes mind is a concept which is not experienced directly so again just a thought that its doing the labelling, just another noun that is so much needed for the usual worldly communication of stuff..

WHO wants to know?

‘Mind’ wants to know but its clearly seen as another thought superimposed on the belief that there is a mind in sentient beings that makes them feel, remember, love, hate but again this all is seen as a cluster of beliefs that are not proven by direct experience.

Nothing makes you stuck. Stuckness is just what's happening.

Love this angle of observation !! Now I feel an acceptance towards this stuckness when it happens instead of rejecting it.

You will "see" it. There is no arguing your way into it.

Yups, there is no one to argue and whom to argue with and what for.. I see that in direct experience, all that happens is just happening not connected with any object or person and then that happening is labelled and connected to objects and causes by thoughts which are again recognised as just another form of happening and so it goes on and on.. when not being alert of the direct experience, then this is not recognised and the story is believed for a while. But the instances of becoming alert of the direct experience are becoming more and more throughout the day, things are seen as happening automatically more and more as well..

Also I have felt more and more restless in my sleep as well as if I am not getting deep sleep but just having dreams throughout the night but even dreams is just a happening where the ‘mind’ is not present so no labelling happens right?

Love and deep gratitude
Usha

[jeronimo]

Hi Usha

Thanks for looking at all of this again. There are still a couple of spots that I'd like you to look at even closer.

Clear seeing happens when I look for that direct experience but it dissolves back to seeing the usual worldly way when not alert.

when not being alert of the direct experience, then this is not recognised and the story is believed for a while.

This feels like a pivot point. Is there a moment when you are aware of direct experience and moments when you're not? Who/what is moving back and forth between these two types of awareness? Is "the usual worldly way" something other than those moments of DE?

Are "you" choosing to look at the direct experience sometimes and do "you" forget to look at it other times?

This is super common and it just requires a slight shift to really "get it."

‘Mind’ wants to know but its clearly seen as another thought

just having dreams throughout the night but even dreams is just a happening where the ‘mind’ is not present so no labelling happens right?

Can you go deeper into explaining what the "mind" is that you're referring to? You clearly say it's a thought, but then it seems like you give it some independent status when you're dreaming ... as "not present." Where is it?

Are dreams different than other thought experiences?

Dig. Look. See what falls apart.

Love

Jeronimo

[Usha]

Dear Jeronimo,

Firstly thank you for digging deeper for me, thank you for your patient guidance :)

This feels like a pivot point.

Ok now let me explain first where I am at this important point. The thing is ‘I’ am seeing the world as I used to see it before. And that is, basically not having DE but mentally labelling all things as I know from before. Like for example, looking at people or things I am not seeing patterns of colors undifferentiated from the background but I actually see the objects separately from other objects. So, in essence my daily life is not the typical DE that we describe, not all One but separate things and people.

But yes in my ‘mind’ thoughts like the following pop up constantly throughout the day :
“like this is all illusion and nothing is objective reality and how none of the characters are in actual existence but just appearances in Universal Awareness and no real ‘me’ moving towards achieving my goals as it always used to be, no individual players but life happening , unfolding, nothing personal but just experiences in this vast open ‘space’ or Awareness”
Its like living a dual life, one on the outside believing things as they are and going about doing my job and other on the inside where I know and understand how all of this is just a big pretence !!

Now I know all the ‘I’ and ‘my’ I have used is not there in Reality and its just a thought arising again and again but somehow its still there when performing daily chores. Now is it there (still sticking up in my daily chores) because deep down in some wrapped layers there is a belief in them, I don’t know. It can’t be seen when looked carefully so I don’t know what this state is.. again I am aware the only real state is ‘no state’ :)
Anyways this is where ‘I’ am psychologically. Crystal clear in the knowledge about the Truth and non-existence of a physical world but still in the “USHA” zone in ‘reel’ life situations

Now as far as answering all the other questions, I know what you are trying to show me..

Who/what is moving back and forth between these two types of awareness?

There is ‘no one’ moving back and forth.

Is "the usual worldly way" something other than those moments of DE?

No, DE is what truly exists.

Are "you" choosing to look at the direct experience sometimes and do "you" forget to look at it other times?

There is no ‘Me’ choosing to look at the DE.

This is super common and it just requires a slight shift to really "get it."

The slight shift that you mention, would be automatic right, it happens when its meant to happen. Its like all happenings, arises when it has to without any causation effect.. how can a non-existant ‘Usha’ do anything about it apart from the fact that she can truly wish for it..

Can you go deeper into explaining what the "mind" is that you're referring to?

Nothing, I know its not there but just labelling happens..

Are dreams different than other thought experiences?

Dreams are also just appearances/happenings in ‘Awareness’, not different from other happenings when ‘I’ am awake but the only difference seems to be unlike wakeful happenings that are accompanied by seemingly rational thoughts, happenings in dreams seem to be erratic and not feeling like a familiar story so it seems like the mind is absent when dreaming.

Dig. Look. See what falls apart.

Not sure where to dig further..

Love
Usha

[jeronimo]

My Dear Usha

The thing is ‘I’ am seeing the world as I used to see it before.

Yup. That's the way it will be ... at least in terms of the content that you see.

looking at people or things I am not seeing patterns of colors undifferentiated from the background but I actually see the objects separately from other objects. So, in essence my daily life is not the typical DE that we describe, not all One but separate things and people.

So here's a moment to let go of an unrealistic expectation. Liberation does not result in you experiencing the world as undifferentiated space. That's a "state" of consciousness like bliss, union, whatever. That's not this. When you "see," you simply see the same stuff with a slightly different perspective (the slight shift in perspective is actually a huge unveiling - but it doesn't come with a big shock, surprise, fireworks, etc).

Again, this is where words fail us. We begin to have the deep knowing that there are no entities that exist independently ... like a separate Usha. Everything is one expression, one undulation ... but there's still a computer, a door, a body. With me?

Direct experience is simply looking at things as they are, without all of the belief and thought that was initially taken for granted. When you felt your foot with your eyes closed, you felt sensation. The DE of sensation. Open your eyes, there's a foot. There will always be a foot.

But yes in my ‘mind’ thoughts like the following pop up constantly throughout the day :
“like this is all illusion and nothing is objective reality and how none of the characters are in actual existence but just appearances in Universal Awareness and no real ‘me’ moving towards achieving my goals as it always used to be, no individual players but life happening , unfolding, nothing personal but just experiences in this vast open ‘space’ or Awareness”
Its like living a dual life, one on the outside believing things as they are and going about doing my job and other on the inside where I know and understand how all of this is just a big pretence !!

Notice that there are times when you are not noticing and that there are times that noticing happens. All of these moments are natural happenings of life - happening automatically. Knowing, not knowing. Forgetting, reminding. There is no "you" that has forgotten and no "you" that remembers. All just happening. Capiche?

Now I know all the ‘I’ and ‘my’ I have used is not there in Reality and its just a thought arising again and again but somehow its still there when performing daily chores.

So what? It's just a thought arising. That's right! And there you go doing your daily chores. And there you go noticing that you are fiction. All happening. All going as it goes. Nothing doing. No controller. That's it!

Nothing more than that.

Crystal clear in the knowledge about the Truth and non-existence of a physical world but still in the “USHA” zone in ‘reel’ life situations

I'm not sure. When you're in the "Usha Zone" do you believe that Usha is controlling? Or are you Usha who "knows" that things are just happening?

DE is what truly exists.

Check your beliefs about what DE is. It's just a method of looking, paying attention. Nothing more. You don't experience the world/reality (whatever we call it) as one, undifferentiated space. That is a mystical union. Very nice, indeed... but not what we're going for here.

here is no ‘Me’ choosing to look at the DE.

This is, in fact, what we're after.
No You. It's the first step over the line ... through the gate ... the beginning of a new journey. A truly delightful one that can be filled with wonderful and blissful states of being ... but they are temporary... happening, not happening... no longer dependent on something special that Usha did.

I think if you get that, you might see where you already are.

How do you feel right now?

I feel a giggle.

Jeronimo

[Usha]

Dear Jeronimo,

Thank you so much for patiently bringing me out of the woods and helping me open my eyes which are still tightly shut for the fear of feeling like I am still in the woods :)

When you "see," you simply see the same stuff with a slightly different perspective (the slight shift in perspective is actually a huge unveiling - but it doesn't come with a big shock, surprise, fireworks, etc).

Yeah, in my case certainly slightly different perspective but nothing dramatic or out of the world kind of feeling…though there is a slight expectation of able to actually see the arising of the whole oneness of everything.. that will be such a nice visual treat!!

Open your eyes, there's a foot. There will always be a foot.

Damn!! Wouldn’t it be nice to have the foot become colorless and merge in the air and then the seeing of gliding in the air happens! Lol!!

Knowing, not knowing. Forgetting, reminding. There is no "you" that has forgotten and no "you" that remembers. All just happening. Capiche?

It makes sense now looking at it that way.

When you're in the "Usha Zone" do you believe that Usha is controlling? Or are you Usha who "knows" that things are just happening?

Usha Zone is basically functioning like the same old Usha, nothing new in behaviour patterns, same excitement about things I like and same dislike about getting up early or getting wet in the rain. Like its all happening automatically ‘I’ know but I don’t feel how some awakened people describe their experience that every breath is my first or every day is so new and exciting.. How can a working Monday be new and exciting?? But anyways that is again ‘Usha’ ranting about stuff.. And yes when a I dislike something its again a thought that tells me that and recognition of that also happens

Check your beliefs about what DE is. It's just a method of looking, paying attention.

But paying attention happens and sometimes doesn’t happen right? Nothing that is controlled by an entity because there is none. I guess my belief deep down about DE is that nothing ever fazes ‘you’. No emotional outbursts or over enthusiasm about different happenings. But I guess these are beliefs only on the thoughts that arise.

no longer dependent on something special that Usha did.

I get that completely. Usha is just a thought and thoughts cannot affect other thoughts.

How do you feel right now?

Like Alice in Wonderland I guess! More giggles :)

Love
Usha

[jeronimo]

Welcome to Drop Your Expectations Day!

You're holding back what you already see. You're eyes are open but you think they're closed. It's now time to jettison the magical thinking. Toss it overboard. No flying, floating, blissing out here... ok?

This is serious business ;)

Ok, it's not.

I want you to do the following. Take some time to think about all the expectations you have around liberation. Write them down. Make a list. Everything.

Then, go take a walk somewhere in nature with that list. Carry a lighter.

Observe the flow of the grass, trees, water... wherever you are. Notice how it all happens according to the forces that act upon it. It all just happens.

Then, find a safe place and burn that frickin list of expectations!

OR - dig a hole and bury them if you don't want to burn them.

As you do it, say to yourself, "there are no more expectations. life simply is. and i see it how it is."

EXPECTATIONS BE GONE!

Love

Jeronimo

[Usha]

Dear Jeronimo,

Yes I think its time for that ..drop all expectations..
I am going away for a few days, will be back home on Sunday. During that time I will try and do the exercise that u suggest and see how that goes :)
Will report back on Sunday. Thanks for your kind help and time :)
Love
Usha

[Usha]

Dear Jeronimo,

I have reflected on all that you said about expectations and how its kind of holding me back from seeing what life really is.. After reviewing all the expectations , I had to cancel out each one of them as they all were just seen clearly as thoughts arising and nothing else. I mean, I understand clearly as all the mental states that were desired ( whether its peaceful or happy or meditative or calm), they were all labels given to the thoughts . And no mental state is the Truth because it comes and goes, the only truth is the experiencing that happens without coming and going, experiencing is the only constant. So ultimately realizing this deeply that attaching and desiring for certain experiences is also just a part of another experience and even that will go away, it kind of just leaves this open ‘space’ for anything to appear because it doesn’t matter anymore.
I guess i don't have any questions or expectations of anything anymore because the moment it arises, its seen as that arising and then subsiding back from where it comes from .
Love
Usha

[jeronimo]

Hi Usha

Glad to hear from you. Let's see if I understand where we are.

all were just seen clearly as thoughts arising and nothing else

Great! That's all it is.

How does this feel?

I guess i don't have any questions or expectations of anything anymore because the moment it arises, its seen as that arising and then subsiding back from where it comes from .

Ok, are you through? The energy/tenor of your response is a little ... "flat."

Where does this leave you?

Love

Jeronimo

[Usha]

Hi Jeronimo,

I apologize in advance but please understand that I need to get this out.. Hopefully after reading it you can help me in some way and not get frustrated and stop this conversation..

I don’t know what through means.. if it means being happy and patient and excited about sharing this knowledge with others then I am not through..
I am just feeling a sense of hopelessness at whatever I do because what’s the point? I am getting this cosmic joke but I am not laughing because its just making me angry as to why this is the Truth and not something else, something more meaningful I guess… and so what does living mean now? I might as well be dead and there is no difference so why do we all have this stupid survival instinct.. this awareness of vacancy at the background of all that comes and goes is not filling me with unlimited love for everything in my experience… its frustrating to be knowing that all that is is A BIG NOTHING.
I am not able to talk or feel passionately about anything that I used to love like being vegan, or eating healthy, or just being nice and not cruel to other beings or doing your job sincerely.. everything that is done or not done means NOTHING at all.. killing or looting are just experiences and not happening to anyone but still having that in 'my' experience is certainly not ok still..
So I don't know where this leaves me :(

[jeronimo]

Hi Usha

Thanks for clarifying where you are in all of this. I see now that there's a sticky thing happening. You've taken on the belief of a big nothing ... but you don't really know that it's nothing.

This implies that there's still a "you' taking on beliefs. And this is good news, because this will change when you drop the belief of you as separate self.

You don't know what through means because you're not yet there. You will know when you know.

Yes, it's all a big nothing. And it's meaningless in its nothingness. But that only feels hopeless if there's someone hoping for something.

I'm going to check in with some other guides to see how we can move you through this place. I'd like some other input so that we can move efficiently.

It's just a stuck place. You'll be moving again soon...

I'll be back with you within 24 hrs.

Love

Jeronimo