HI I'm looking for a guide preferably from Triratna

[Mad biker]

OK that is great, but I would still like you to address my post from earlier on this evening which is as follows:

I am now back to a proper keyboard and quote fuction and want to revisit this:

for a moment there was a strong controlling voice identifying with a fixed self.
not wanting negative emotion that I have been experiencing.
Eventually saw through that and it has now less power
so, Now I agree.
Lovely again feeling expansive and grounded,

In Direct Experience 'what' or 'who' was; "...not wanting..."?

"Eventually..."? How long did that 'take' in D.E.?

So 'it' now; "...has less power..."?

Does that mean 'it' still has SOME power? Just look and tell me from your DE now.

[DaveP123]

Through DE the power of the controlling thought has gone
The term eventually got used because there had been a battle for a few days
But once I sat down and directly looked at what was going on
It dissolved
Also at work there were quieter negative thoughts today
Without any desire to control
In fact the label negative seem irrelevant
Just a set of thoughts coming and going
Lot of peace/silence in my experience

[Mad biker]

The term eventually got used because there had been a battle for a few days
But once I sat down and directly looked at what was going on
It dissolved
Also at work there were quieter negative thoughts today
Without any desire to control
In fact the label negative seem irrelevant
Just a set of thoughts coming and going
Lot of peace/silence in my experience

That is all looking great to me but I had a bit of concern about this first line of yours where you say:

Through DE the power of the controlling thought has gone

"Through DE..."?

Direct Experience is not a thing or a special state or an agency. If you had just been chased up a flight of stairs by a pack of wild dogs, then your Direct Experience would be that of a guy who had just been chased up a flight of stairs by a pack of wild dogs. Not a state change, nothing mystical, just sweaty, heaving breaths and racing pulse etc, that would be your Direct Experience.

"In DE" would make more sense to me than "through DE", if you can see my wariness about my connotations for the latter?
For you therefore, is "in" an acceptable replacement word for "through" in your above sentence for example?

[DaveP123]

"In DE" would make more sense to me than "through DE", if you can see my wariness about my connotations for the latter?
For you therefore, is "in" an acceptable replacement word for "through" in your above sentence for example?

Ok I see
Yes "it" works.
A lot of the time I am not in Direct Experience though so when I sit quietly and use it, it seems to me I am using it as a tool.
I grant that I would like my life to be totally lived in DE but till then is it not work to be done?

OH dear just had 10 mins of laughter
Whose "not in Direct Experience", answer no one.
When "I sit quietly and use it", (more giggling) who does? answer no one.
Who wants to live totally in DE? answer no one. (more laughter)
Who "has work to be done?" answer no one.

much love Sangharaja

[Mad biker]

That is all looking very good indeed!
I am just going to send you these six closing questions to answer, which may give rise to other questions, or may not. Don't be afraid to repeat yourself as these will be seen by other guides in your process.

1)
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2)
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see
it now.
3)
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4)
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5)
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? GIVE EXAMPLES FROM YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. Do not hesitate to repeat yourself if you feel you have already addressed much of it.
6)
Anything to add?
Mb

[Mad biker]

How are things amigo?
Metta,
Mb

[DaveP123]

Hi MB
Yes good finished this morning
Will post this pm after proof reading
Sangharaja

[Mad biker]

Yeah, proof reading is always a nice idea. See you back here this afternoon.
Mb

[DaveP123]

1)
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

1
No I don't see a seperate entity “self” “me” “I” anywhwere
Thoughts come such as “I think” or “I feel” this or that.
They are just thoughts passing through awareness.
And there never has been a separate self just the ideas, thoughts and memories of a separate self.

2)
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see
it now.

2
The separate self starts with contact with an object that the mind perceives
There is a thought response and then a story is created about said object. Objects being: that which is tasted touched heard smelt seen and thoughts. Further more what is experienced "the self" believes it is experiencing that
Eg there is an experiencer.
I have felt it defines me, gives me a story an idea and label called identity. It says I am this, I am not that.
So none of this is based in what’s real, any direct experience is obscured by the separate identity which is defined by thoughts, beliefs and memories.

3)
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel a relief that I am no longer defined by my successes , attainments
or failures as they limit the being existing here NOW in the present.
Over the last week and particularly over the last few days I have experienced more spaciousness and silence as well as a gentler approach to life. Life flows.
I can be in what were stressful situations and have a calm non reactive and openness to the experience.
I would experience thoughts and emotions to people “close to me” or "work with" and get either angry with myself or try and supress those states because, this is the type of person who I wasnt wanting to be (didnt fit my identity )
These (negative) emotions and thoughts just are not sticking anymore and the wanting to control has gone is yet another thought process that doesn't stick.
I feel more “present” and available to people even with people who I use to feel awkward with.
Tasks seem to be simpler and again I am more present .

4)
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The quote below was the point
It was subtle but I thought I had “seen” completely on Sunday
but I was still trying to make things work using DE as another tool in away to control experience and (attain the state)* of “No self”. *DE is not a state it is just what it is

Mad biker wrote:
"In DE" would make more sense to me than "through DE", if you can see my wariness about my connotations for the latter?
For you therefore, is "in" an acceptable replacement word for "through" in your above sentence for example?

Ok I see
Yes "it" works.
A lot of the time I am not in Direct Experience though so when I sit quietly and use it, it seems to me I am using it as a tool.
I grant that I would like my life to be totally lived in DE but till then is it not work to be done?

OH dear just had 10 mins of laughter
Whose "not in Direct Experience", answer no one.
When "I sit quietly and use it", (more giggling) who does? answer no one.
Who wants to live totally in DE? answer no one. (more laughter)
Who "has work to be done?" answer no one.

much love Sangharaja

5)
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? GIVE EXAMPLES FROM YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. Do not hesitate to repeat yourself if you feel you have already addressed much of it.

The answer is no I dont make anything happen
I HAD a strong sense of control and decision making.
But looking closely events do happen by them selves and the thoughts
come after.
If I choose to do something the urge comes out of nowhere and then the decision to do it,
I cant find someone who decides or chooses
there is just deciding and choosing
Today I was cleaning, there was a bucket in the way and I saw my foot swing out and push it to one side and then push it back again, just didn't see the doer just doing.
Turning taps on, using the broom, everything was being done, no doer
There was choosing to get up from the Tv to write this piece with a host of actions, saw no chooser or doer.

[Mad biker]

First class!
See you in the post-Gate forums amigo!
Mb