2nd Time Around - Guidance Please

[Armstrong]

I made a hash of that last post. Sorry.

If you ignore everything from "1)" on, that will work.

[Gary]

In sum, critiquing is happening (via the stream of thoughts), but you aren't doing it. You aren't thinking the thoughts. And you can't find something else thinking the thoughts for you. They just show up. And they go away sometimes.

Yes, apparently so.

Do you believe, "I have a problem with too much thinking?"

Not so much. I feel I have a problem with getting too entangled with my thoughts. I get lost in them. I believe them.

[Armstrong]

Right now, you are looking at this message on a screen. When you read that word "screen" you know what it refers to in reality. We'd say, right now (in direct experience), screen points to <<YOU KNOW>>. It isn't words. "screen" points to something in reality, in "direct experience".

Similarly, the phrase "your right hand" points to <<YOU KNOW>>. It may not have clear borders between your wrist and the hand, but if I ask you to move it, you'll somehow make it happen.

Back to what you wrote:

I feel I have a problem with getting too entangled with my thoughts. I get lost in them. I believe them.

What is that "I" that has a problem?
What does "I" point to in direct experience?

What is the "I" that gets lost in the thoughts?
What does "I" point to in direct experience?

What is the "I" that believes them?
What does "I" point to in direct experience?

[Gary]

This made me laugh.

What is that "I" that has a problem?
What does "I" point to in direct experience?

What is the "I" that gets lost in the thoughts?
What does "I" point to in direct experience?

What is the "I" that believes them?
What does "I" point to in direct experience?

'I' seems to point to thoughts, or the stream of thinking, in direct experience. I feel oddly puzzled.

[Armstrong]

How can "I" point to the stream of thoughts? They come and go. You don't make them. You are aware of them, as you are aware of these words. Just as these words aren't you, the thoughts can't be you. Please look again - who is the "I" that comprehends these words?

[Gary]

Please look again - who is the "I" that comprehends these words?

Okay, so most basically when I say "I", I am referring to my body. And the brain is the comprehending part.

[Armstrong]

Is that just a thought? As in, you looked for a while, couldn't find an obvious answer (as you could if one asked you to show what the word "body" pointed to -- so then you had a thought, "... my body. And the brain..."

If you look back at the conditions, we're supposed to talk about experience, not philosophical stuff.

You can't hear, see, smell etc your brain. Isn't that answer just a thought that popped into your head? How do you know it is true, if all it is is something that appeared in your mind?

Please give it another try. You are reading these words now. You comprehend them. What does "you" point to?

[Gary]

If you look back at the conditions, we're supposed to talk about experience, not philosophical stuff.

You can't hear, see, smell etc your brain. What does "you" point to?

Okay, so I can experience my body with my senses, and 'hear' the voice in my head; so 'I'm' the one who has this body and thinks these thoughts.

[Armstrong]

OK. Can you describe what it was like to type out that last answer? E.g. you read the question. Then you experienced some things - and finally you clicked "submit" -- can you please describe what that experience is like, in terms of perceptions, thoughts, feelings, bodily sensations, etc.

That's a longwinded way of asking you to describe the "direct experience" of replying.

[Gary]

I'll sleep on that one :)

P.S. I have a headache, which I rarely get. This is utterly fascinating. Thanks for responding so often and quickly.

[Armstrong]

I'm sorry you have a headache and I hope it goes away soon.

That was some nice looking today. I learned a lot. Thank you.

If you return tomorrow we can continue. If you don't, no hard feelings and I wish you the best.

[Gary]

I'll certainly be here.

[Armstrong]

Great. Well, please try to answer the questions. That's what's next. :-)

[Gary]

Hello again...

I've spent most of today looking for 'I', while sitting, lying, and doing stuff. Back to what you wrote earlier for a moment...

Right now, you are looking at this message on a screen. When you read that word "screen" you know what it refers to in reality. We'd say, right now (in direct experience), screen points to <<YOU KNOW>>. It isn't words. "screen" points to something in reality, in "direct experience".

Similarly, the phrase "your right hand" points to <<YOU KNOW>>. It may not have clear borders between your wrist and the hand, but if I ask you to move it, you'll somehow make it happen.

Well, of course there is no 'I' in the sense that there is a screen or a right hand. There's no physical thing that can be pointed at which is exactly 'I'. But I assume you don't mean this in such a simple way (?)

OK. Can you describe what it was like to type out that last answer? E.g. you read the question. Then you experienced some things - and finally you clicked "submit" -- can you please describe what that experience is like, in terms of perceptions, thoughts, feelings, bodily sensations, etc.

That's a longwinded way of asking you to describe the "direct experience" of replying.

I'm confused about what you are asking here. Are you able to expand a little on the question?

[Armstrong]

Go ahead and look for the "I" a bit more. And then if/when you're stuck, look for the thing that is looking. And please tell me about it, in terms of your direct experience.