Pea seeking Smudge

[smudge]

Is there really a you and your thoughts and them and theirs in DE or or this still story?
Is there you seeing patterns or just seeing in DE. is there a seer to be found. If so describe.
Are emotions yours in DE? Or are sensations just happening.
If seeing the absence of self is lost at times, does this mean a me real again?
Lets unpick all this faulty evidence of proof of me'ness. Cooking Nicely. X

[Pea]

After reading your last post I just found myself laughing (a little manically!) and then utter silence for a few minutes - no thinking!
Something seemed to just pop... thinking is happening again now but it all seems a bit weird.
Just the first sentence,

Is there really a you and your thoughts and them and theirs in DE or or this still story?

It seems that there is no my thoughts or theirs, just story about thoughts. That thoughts are just arising and becoming part of what happens...
It feels hard to write things down right now, to answer the other questions

Is there you seeing patterns or just seeing in DE. is there a seer to be found.

Not sure. Keep reading this sentence and can't seem to process it. lol

Are emotions yours in DE? Or are sensations just happening.

At this moment there is a strong, pleasant warm feeling around the throat and chest - it doesn't seem to want to be named.

If seeing the absence of self is lost at times, does this mean a me real again?

No - it doesn't make 'me' real.

Yes, things are cooking pretty well - thank you. x

[Pea]

Btw - that's not meant as a suggestion that it's all 'done' - just things are definitely moving.

[smudge]

After reading your last post I just found myself laughing (a little manically!) and then utter silence for a few minutes - no thinking!...Something seemed to just pop

Cool!

thinking is happening again....That thoughts are just arising and becoming part of what happens...

yes,as observe red, thinking carries on after seeing the absence and delusion of self.
& is there an expectation that thoughts should stop when seeing has happened??

SEEING.
So from DE, focus on an object apparently our there, then see in DE, is there a see'er and a seen or just seen, the headless opining exercise makes this easy peasy!

At this moment there is a strong, pleasant warm feeling around the throat and chest - it doesn't seem to want to be named.

Does this emotion have a will of its own? is it an entity that can want and not want? OR is it sensation and story added :-)

Are emotions yours in DE? Or are sensations just happening.

that's not meant as a suggestion that it's all 'done'

God forbid :-) what would it mean to be 'done'?

[Pea]

Good morning,

is there an expectation that thoughts should stop when seeing has happened??

No that is not an expectation I have, I think it just seemed so strange for thinking to have vanished completely for those few minutes - and when it returned it felt more straightforward... clearer lines of thinking happening - can't really find words to explain. What is it like today? I will have a look,

So from DE, focus on an object apparently our there, then see in DE, is there a see'er and a seen or just seen

There is just seen - shapes, colours etc which are then labelled in some way if they are attended to. Which starts me wondering about distances... e.g. the scissors are about a metre away, on the table. The door is maybe 2 metres away... but sitting here, looking in DE, is there a distance involved? There's just shapes etc that are seen, the mind seems to add all the extras after.

Does this emotion have a will of its own?

No, it was just me trying to explain that that sensation was just sensation in that period of time.

Are emotions yours in DE? Or are sensations just happening.

So, about 3.30am there was someone trying to get in the front door of the house (Crazy, I know!) - there was a very clear sensation there... fight or flight, fear was definitely a very clear, unambiguous label for it. Because the noise woke me, the sensations were vividly there before the waking mind made sense of it and labelled it and 'I' responded to it. (everything is alright this morning btw)

And just now, the laptop did one of those "configuring" things - shut itself down and rebooted - straight away, stomach/chest sensations, followed by the "oh no! Seriously? if all that text is lost..." response. Sensation, then emotion and story. But are the emotions mine? Not so sure...

[smudge]

So identification is strong with emotion. What are emotions. Describe fully one in DE now. Where did it come from, where did it go. Then add the question is there a feeler or just the felt. Looking looking....

[Pea]

What are emotions. Describe fully one in DE now.

Ok - so DE of a feeling of anxiety - fluttery sensations behind the heart region and fizzy sensation around the stomach.

Where did it come from, where did it go.

It seemed to arise in response to thoughts about the fact that my injured cat wasn't in the kitchen when I got up. It disappeared gradually as I was sitting quietly watching it. I say "it seemed to arise" because I didn't really notice whether it was the thought about the cat which caused it to arise, or whether it was there in response to the event of being in the kitchen, before the thought was actually formed.

is there a feeler or just the felt

In this instance it was experienced as there was a feeler - noticed the thought "my cat isn't here... can she not get back to the house?" and then the emotions being felt as sensation.

So sometimes there is clearly an event - sensation - label/story

e.g. last night ... music plays - sensation in body - label (elation/'oh my god, this song...blah, blah, blah) - in this instance the experience of a "feeler" is easier to see through. It can be experienced as just felt more easily, even though the story still comes.

But also, whilst sitting quietly and watching, there were other sensations in the body - various fizzy, fluttery, pressure, ache, tightness sensations which were noticed, mainly in the torso and throat - they come and go and don't necessarily get labelled. And a lot of them are very common and could be appropriated to fit all sorts of stories - excitement, worry - where as others are very distinctive in their tone e.g. anger, fear.

[Pea]

Been looking at can the sensations actually be located physically? i.e. fluttery feeling in chest - when look closely in DE it's ephemeral - actually not sure if that's even the right word. It's elusive - like the experience of 'foot' - can't actually feel boundaries where the skin and tissues etc are when looking at it.
So it's the same with sensations that get labelled as emotions. There is something felt in the body - there appears to be a location but looking closer it can't be exactly pinpointed, it shifts, drifts.

[smudge]

So it's the same with sensations that get labelled as emotions. There is something felt in the body - there appears to be a location but looking closer it can't be exactly pinpointed, it shifts, drifts.

Great, because before that when asked where thoughts come from you said:

It seemed to arise in response to thoughts about the fact that my injured cat wasn't in the kitchen when I got up

which was thoughts claiming the emotion (and the answer to a question like what causes sensations, which thoughts say is thoughts). Sure, theres a connection but its thoughts saying 'I caused this', when actually don't sensations just zoom in from no where and then pass back into nowhere? Its the thought sensation dance again which thoughts claim, because thats what thoughts do, but don't confuse what thoughts say to DE.

Is there an experiencer or just experience? Pinch your leg..is the leg experiencing the pinch or is sensation just happening?
When I ask "Are your keys in your purse? What's your direct experience?" what do you do? You open your purse and look to see, right? Either you directly experience your keys in your purse or you don't. It's very simple, very natural.

Okay. Is there a separate entity called Pea? What's your direct experience? Look! Either you directly experience a separate self or you don't. Which is it?

[Pea]

Good morning... Lots of looking been going on. I am going to come to your question...

Okay. Is there a separate entity called Pea? What's your direct experience? Look! Either you directly experience a separate self or you don't. Which is it?

but first I really just want to pick apart some sensations/emotions/thoughts dance stuff that is there.

So, when watching sensations, it generally seems easier to observe sensation in foot/hand/maybe even face without hooking into emotion - but other bodily sensations (ie chest, abdomen, throat) seem more tied up with emotion (ie they get an emotional label attached more often) - so somehow I seem to have been dividing my experience of sensation up.
BUT in DE, just looking... there is just sensation. As you said yesterday,

sensations just zoom in from no where and then pass back into nowhere

Took me back to that experience the other night, with the intruder at the door and the label of "fear".

sensations just zoom in from no where and then pass back into nowhere

- the sensations arise in response to something - and sometimes that something is big and obvious (like noise being heard and a whole process of thinking "someone is breaking in") and other times the sensation is the response to something small, maybe just happening in the body and doesn't get hooked up by thinking "claiming" it.

because thats what thoughts do, but don't confuse what thoughts say to DE.

Is there an experiencer or just experience?

There is just experience - story builds an experiencer afterwards.

So...

Is there a separate entity called Pea? What's your direct experience?

The words "separate entity" are bothering me in this question... DE is showing that there is seeing, hearing, sensation going on - thoughts and emotions arise out of all of this. There is no evidence of a self that can be found within that experience - thoughts and emotions have been sifted through and found to be empty of self.

But the words "separate entity" well there is a body here, sitting on the bed. Fingers can be seen typing the words... sensations are felt within the confines of this body... is this a separate entity?

[smudge]

but other bodily sensations (ie chest, abdomen, throat) seem more tied up with emotion (ie they get an emotional label attached more often) - so somehow I seem to have been dividing my experience of sensation up.

Good noticing, yes claiming doesn't stop, and emotion and thoughts can do convincing show hey.. but it doesn't make it real.

and other times the sensation is the response to something small, maybe just happening in the body and doesn't get hooked up by thinking "claiming" it.

Yes the alarm system goes into fight or flight and the belief that there is a central entity to protect seems real..its a given isn't it, until we look! No one is behind the curtain, and it all carrys on anyway as you observe, seeing hearing, experiencing, etc...without a you...how can that be! no wonder you laughed so hard!

But the words "separate entity" well there is a body here, sitting on the bed.

So its all on the body is it. There is a body, correct, is this you though or is body body and again thoughts saying its ME
:-) If you didn't have a leg or an arm what would this mean about the you that is body,
& again..Is there an experiencer or just experience? Pinch your leg..is the leg experiencing the pinch or is sensation just happening?

[Pea]

So, no - that argument doesn't hold up either, does it?!?
The body isn't 'me' either ... Had to check and rule it out though.
What's left? Sat in the afternoon sunshine at a music festival and there don't seem to be any more avenues for the self to be hiding down...

[smudge]

Cool. So we've looked in every nook and cranny.

Can you say YES self is an illusion and that there is no doubt. If there is doubt re-investigate where you have already searched just to be sure. X

[Pea]

There doesn't feel like there is any doubt and yet...
Maybe there's something that needs to click, bringing all these different elements together and just really seeing through

[smudge]

What's the and yet. My guess is its a story. Check.