Hi - is Ilona or Elena able to guide me please?

[Elsa]

Hi vince,

It is sunday so can fit another answer to your questions in,
actually, this is the last answer of the questions you gave.
What am I responsible for?
Nothing!
Whatever is said about this, will get nulled out because there is NO "I".
And as it has been realised that there is no "I", then there is no one to be responsible. .

This is what is the dictionary definition of responsible is;

• being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it

• (of a job or position) involving important duties, independent decision-making, or control over others.

• in charge of, in control of, at the helm of, accountable for, liable for

There is no I or me controlling, causing things to happen, making decisions, nor accountable or liable.

If killing happens and then going to prison happens, this cannot be love in action....... there is slight confusion here vince, as there is no I or me, that has been seen... without a doubt. there is no I to be confused actually, there is a thought arising at this moment that is asking therefore... what kills.?. as this is then suffering, suffering to those whose child/parent/lover etc was killed and suffering to the person that is feeling remorse.
ok, check mate.... stuck on this one.... help! better bring out the mop!!
...also what suicides?

Blessings
Elsa

[Elsa]

Hi vince
Just in addition to my last post about not understanding the suicide bit...and looking at what is there that could cause suicide or killing to happen.....
Just as the ME or I is created through thought and then believing an I and Me was true, so then, negative thoughts and conditioning that creates say bad thoughts can stick to that percieved "I" (a thought attaching to other thoughts) and therefore create a cause and effect situation - that acts out from that bundle of thinking... ahhhh, so therefore there is still no responsibility coming from a perceived I because the I believed to be a me is just a concept in the first place.... however the act of killing is real is it not? the result of the body dying is real, the physical impact of a punch in the face or a knife in the back is real..... but the person that did the crime is just thoughts believing thoughts and in this case, angry, negative or crazy thoughts.Those thoughts were believed and acted on.
Wow, that has to be the way it is as there is only thought and no entity that is in control or does anything!
How am I going articulating this vince? haha,
Blessings, Elsa

[vinceschubert]

as this is then suffering, suffering to those whose child/parent/lover etc was killed and suffering to the person that is feeling remorse.

If suffering is the emotional pain that results from the thoughts associated with the events, is any particular organism responsible for either their own or others suffering ?

slight confusion here

Does confusion need to be de-confused ?
Is confusion anything other than thoughts saying that thoughts are in an unsatisfying 'state' ? Certainly we have conditioned brains to elicit thoughts that don't conflict. Is this what causes the suffering of the dementia "sufferer" ?

what suicides?

This is a good example of how we can get sucked in by language. There is a whole story associated with this one word. Not least being the chapter on the morality of it.
If we examine it, what we have is an organism ceasing to function (death). In this case the organism putting into place the conditions for its' own demise. Everything else is story.
Story here is that the physical pain that results from the suffering becomes so great that "suicide" becomes seen as the only way to end it.

Wow, that has to be the way it is as there is only thought and no entity that is in control or does anything!
How am I going articulating this vince? haha,

You are doing great Elly. As you (seem to) have discovered, there is an inherent wisdom that can be accessed simply by examining conditions from this new perspective.

Only one more thing from the list of questions; 5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.


love

vince

[Elsa]

Hi vince
thank you so much for taking the time to explain and discuss issues with the last question, so much clearer now. Oodles of gratefulness here :-)

Just needing a little more clarity... all the questions you asked have been answered across 6 days from Tues June 24th (page 4) until Sun June 30th (page 5) Decision, Intention, Free Will, Choice, Control, What makes things happen and what am I responsible for?
Are you asking for more examples from my own experience for each of those?

Blessings,
Elly.

[vinceschubert]

Are you asking for more examples from my own experience for each of those?

Yes. Just some anecdotes from daily life showing how Decision, Intention, Free Will, Choice, Control now operate ? For example how does getting a drink happen ?

love

vince

[Elsa]

Hi vince,

Good questions, and will give some examples tomorrow evening.
Most grateful and very happy,
X Elly

[Elsa]

Hi Vince,

You asked how Sensation, Decision , Intention, Free will now operate in daily life.
Sensation
The Sensation of hunger arises,
A thought says hungry – eat something, need to eat something
Another thought says go into the kitchen, the body walks into the kitchen,
The right hand opens the fridge door and seeing, looking is happening A thought comes up and says”eat the yoghurt” and another thought comes in and says, no eat the yoghurt for desert and another thought says, “I” can’t wait for desert having it now.
All this goes on naturally
The right hand grabs the yoghurt and puts it on the bench.
It’s fascinating how that this all happens generated by thoughts.
Thought asks, the body delivers, or appeases the thought .
Sensation - thought - action

Control
Driving the car this morning there is a realisation that everything is happening automatically, gears are being changed, seeing is happening, hands steering the wheel, feet braking and accelerating. There are comntemplating thoughts arising and investigating if there is a me who is driving the car, and of course, it is impossible as there is no me or I anywhere to be found. The I thought it was in control 4 weeks ago, the I thought it drove the car to work and back, it really believed it existed and controlled almost everything. Today, contemplating the question you asked vince, there was a surprise that all this driving is happening automatically, even sudden braking happened before realising why the braking needed to happen - there is so much more clarity driving now and less distraction from a mind that used to chatter and rant on and on.

Decision
While driving to work this morning, a decision needed to be made to either take a short cut or go the normal way. The I popped back in and said "I decide to take the short cut" then a thought came up under that and said who decides? it has been seen through that there is no I here so is anyone deciding?" and instantly there was the knowing that a decision was made but not by anyone - the short cut was taken

Glitch
There was a lapse this evening, and that is ok, however it would be good to share this with you. (My) daughter rang and told me that she is going to put my 5 year old grandson on his own on a plane to Melbourne and to meet him at the airport. FEAR came up instantly and the what if he gets scared and what if he doesn't get looked after etc and Elly here was surprised at the reaction because it was so unexpected!! It only lasted a few minutes if that and the thought came up "who fears? who is there to be scared"? and then I laughed at myself! and feelings of peace filled the space where I had been hanging on to old concepts that had nowhere to go but fall away.

There is still a bit of oscillation with identifying with an I or Me however, it is seen quite rapidly and then it just falls away.

Back with more examples tomorrow vince
Feeling blessed and so grateful to have you as my guide :-)

[Elsa]

Hi vince,
Choice is a good one to explore.....
Before the revelation that there was no I or me, making choices was sometimes an agonising exercise. The suffering was caused by an I that worried about making the "wrong choice"... after all life to an I is so important and one must make the right decisions otherwise "my" life could end up unhappy and ruined (that was the general train of thought in choice making.... pressure!!) so suffering ensued and then confusion and then not making a decision etc, thought after thought after conflicting thought.
What is found now is an ease and grace around choice, because there is no I to make them, there is no pressure and no confusion. Today a choice was offered in regards to a career move and a voice in this body said yes to one of the choices and knowing it was the right choice because yes was said........instinct and feeling or sensation were all in unison with that yes, and a couple of "future "thoughts came up due to old concepts of there being a me or an I , then they fell away and it all just didn't even matter. It's so easy because the decision was made by no one and the choice was not made by a me, choice was just made, choosing happened, what else is there to say... so easy, so clear so uncomplicated and simple. Choice was made, no story attached, no future images about the choice, no what ifs.... phew. so easy!
Blessings,
Elly.

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Elly.
Great stuff. It is obvious that you have what the Buddhists call become a Stream Enterer.
You are obviously experiencing what i call the default state for an organism. That of joy and happiness and peace. This comes about because all of the story induced stress is removed when one SEEs through the illusion (delusion) of the existence of an actual self.
Now that story of self that was previously believed does have some useful chapters, as well as those dysfunctional ones. Because you now see the reality of it being a story, you can consciously rewrite or add chapters, although that happens anyway. That is a metaphor. In actual fact the brain is being re-wired. Old conditioning is failing and new conditioning is being generated. This is a journey that will last the rest of the life of the organism. You have taken the first step. Enjoy the rest of the journey. Even the occasional steep climb and rough terrain that may induce pain but will be free of suffering.
There are many new 'skills' to be considered as you are entering a whole new world now.
Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in our Facebook groups, so "friend" me and i will invite you to join.
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert
and a small doc worth reading here; http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf

Oh, and one more thing. Once you have settled in to the community, you might (i hope) consider paying it forward. That is guiding others. There is a constant flow of seekers coming to the gate and we constantly need guides to help them through. It is a great way to facilitate your journey further. We have a system where an experienced guide will mentor you as you find your own wisdom as a guide.

Anyway, much love to you, and i will see you on the other side (unless there is more you wish to explore here)

vince

[Elsa]

And so much love and gratitude to you vince,
so , so grateful to you for your patience and wisdom and excellent articulated guidance.
How can thankyou ever be enough?
I started in a bit of confusion and you had the ability to totally relate and communicate to me in a way that got me through to looking, seeing and realising what is really going on, so I acknowledge that you did that.
Absolutely yes to the facebook page and yes to paying it forward in the right moment when it is the right timing. It will all just happen naturally.
Blessings to you a trillion times X Elly
and yes, see you on the other side :-)