Caitlin looking for Smudge

[Caitlin]

My daughter is at school and so is her pe kit!
I am about to leave for work, I am aware i don't know what the day will bring,what thoughts and feelings and sensations will arise, aware of how little I know and that this feels ok, fingers still feeling stiff, thinking if I had done yoga this morning my fingers wouldn't feel so stiff, noticing the start of a story about my stiff fingers, thinking about how familiar this feels, the story based on conditions goes I didn't do yoga, so I am lazy, so I am not good enough, so now my fingers are stiff, my fingers are stiff and this is my fault, wow, ouch, that used to hurt, alongside my fingers feeling stiff I was a worthless person, mental pain on stiffness, can feel my heart rate rising remembering this story about a me who was not good enough, feeling a little sick, and in direct experience all there is a little bit of stiffness in my fingers, heart rate a bit higher, feeling a lurch in my stomach, plane overheard, still aware of muesli in my stomach, noticing the time, noticing that i didn't tell myself to notice the time, time to leave for work.

X

[smudge]

Yes so you are noticing that even though no self is found, the stories about one continues...crazy but true.
Take a look, the only ingredients of Dukkha are thoughts and sensations in DE!

[quote]the sound comes through with the breeze, which feels cool on my face....muesli in my stomach/quote]
Even this isn't DE...lets see...
carry out the following experiment.

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.

For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…

of my foot...

...of my knee

of my chest...

In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.

Now point where others see your face.

What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

Looking in to the place where others see your face, do you find colour or shape here.

What do you find?

Then..Take it further: Point with one index finger outwards at the world, and with your other index finger point inwards towards where you used to think your face was. Describe as fully as you can what the experience is like.

[Caitlin]

When I point where others see my face, I don't see my face, this is not where I experience looking comes from, looking comes 'through' not 'from'. I see that same expansive spaciousness I see in meditation, it has no limits, no beginning and no end, this is the space i have been experiencing my clients passing through in the last week or so, they pass through me and I pass through them, but there is no separation in that experience, just one energy, one flow.
I don't find any colour or shape or anything that identifies separateness.
When I point outwards and inwards at the same time there is no distance, only connection.

'describe as fully as you can what the experience is like'

It's like having no substance that is different from any other substance, it's like all is one and it's my perception and differentiates, this is kind of a vague sense though, like what I see surrounding me is a stage set painted like this so that I can label and differentiate, my head is fuzzy right now, tears are coming up, this feels like relief, but thoughts are interrupting, questioning. Time does not feel linear but sort of 'round'? Feels like the words themselves are keeping this stage set looking solid.

[Caitlin]

It feels like I am in the light/ am the light, at the end of the pipe again, waiting to pop out over the ravine and dissolve again.

[smudge]

Ahhhhh just lovely!!! freeing isn't it, Im so happy for you xxx

You've got....or rather seeing is happening...

So now please now describe how choosing happens, like choosing between a blue or black pen or between tea or coffee. Wheres the choice point, whats going on in DE?

[Caitlin]

Yes, freeing. Relief. No fear. No doubts, but very fuzzy. Thank you for your happiness! Just 'thank you'!
No choice point that I can find, choosing happens. Choice is not important (?) not sure I know what this means but this is clear. Clearer to say 'choice is not'

X

[Caitlin]

Looking for choice this morning and can't find any, what I find is choosing happens and then thoughts label or question, sometimes overlaying doubt. It reminds me of something I do with clients sometimes when they seem stuck in a choice they feel unable to make. I ask them to for a moment imagine that they have already made the choice and are beginning to follow it through then I ask them to tell me what that choice it. They always know and seemed surprised that they know. But I knew and now 'see' that choosing had arisen already and the stuckness was in thoughts about choice.

I sat in meditation late yesterday evening and saw the limitless spaciousness filled with beings, Buddhas and bodhisattvas in among them, no distance, no separation, just connection.

X

[smudge]

Its like breathing fresh air reading your posts!

So some clarifying questions: Take your time and answer fully please

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

I look forward to hearing back,
Love Smudge

[Caitlin]

Its like breathing fresh air reading your posts!

Thank you for your understanding, it is amazing to be received in this way, I am so grateful for your generosity and attention.

So some clarifying questions: Take your time and answer fully please

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is no separate entity, no 'self', 'me' or 'I' at all anywhere. There never was, what was there was an illusion of self, a strong belief in a story, supported by the pain and confusion of the expectation of separation. There is a body, distinguished from other bodies by the labelling of others, there are thoughts and feelings and sensations that arise dependent on conditions.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self arises as an expectation. It arises from language, and the culture of language, which is useful in communication as a shorthand but can only at best be parallel to, and describe, direct experience. Words separate. Babies learn the language of separation (paradoxically to try to achieve closeness with others!) and take on the beliefs that words are things rather than labels, communication sets up imagery and representation. This reminds me of a tutor teaching us counselling theory and saying that we must remember that the theory is the map and not the territory, and that if we do not raise our eyes from the map we will not experience the territory. If the map is taken to be the territory then it is static and fixed, this path will lead here each time, with expectation arises a belief in control and choice and 'self' emerges.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Want to say don't know. That is - nothing fixed I can report. Feelings move through relief, openness, joy, a sense of loss but nothing lost and no loser, a sense of gain but nothing is gained and no gainer, an empty expectation of achievement and nothing to achieve and no achiever! When I started this there was some remaining 'I' watching 'me' dissolve. Now no 'I' to watch.
Funny, sad too. So simple. Empty and full, empty of self and full because there is nothing missing anymore. (Except 'me' - I'm missing! That's funny!)

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

When you asked me where looking comes from and I said looking comes 'through' not 'from', there was a shift like a move from intellectual understanding to a deep felt sense of this being so. When you asked me to point 'outward' with one index finger and 'inward' with the other, a deep knowing of connection, and separation dissolving.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are beliefs arising from the thoughts that label experience as seen from the map. Life lives. There is no 'I' to be reponsible. This feels new and a bit weird to say as it was a very important part of the story of 'me' that 'I' was an ethical person. Odd to see that ethics too are part of the map, that when life is seen to live as one there is respect for life - this is language at its limit now because there is no separation of the respecter and the respected. Language separates. Cannot express compassion for the same reason, it just is.

6) Anything to add?

Falling was slower yesterday, faster today. Feeling curious, peaceful, full of gratitude.
Many many many thanks, language not adequate here either :)

X

[smudge]

the map we will not experience the territory

Nice!

Feelings move through relief, openness, joy, a sense of loss but nothing lost and no loser, a sense of gain but nothing is gained and no gainer, an empty expectation of achievement and nothing to achieve and no achiever! When I started this there was some remaining 'I' watching 'me' dissolve. Now no 'I' to watch.
Funny, sad too. So simple. Empty and full, empty of self and full because there is nothing missing anymore. (Except 'me' - I'm missing! That's funny!)

I love this, encapsulates the paradox.. & the cosmic joke


Thanks you. I will ask the other guides if they have any questions too. But first just one more zoom in on question 5. Please give actual examples, like getting up or going out or what to eat, actual solid examples going on in DE now. x

[Caitlin]

Hi,

An example of question 5.

So, just now I was sitting in the sitting room and was aware that there was a feeling of hunger, I felt hungry - the response was to stand up and walk to the kitchen to see what was in the fridge - as I got to the fridge there was a memory that there was some leftover vegetable curry in there - I opened the fridge and felt happy it really was there because further memories arose of enjoying it last night - there was expectation of enjoying the taste again - And then a thought wondering whether the enjoyment would be the same - I picked up the bowl and took it to the hob and at this same point there was the thought 'I will have leftover vegetable curry for lunch'. I didn't decide to have vegetable curry, or choose to have vegetable curry, I was hungry, I moved towards food, I remembered the curry, saw the curry, the curry had tasted good, and started to warm up the curry, I narrated what was happening based on all this as 'I will have leftover vegetable curry for lunch' , and I ate the curry.
And it tasted different today from the way it tasted last night of course :)

X

[Caitlin]

A kind of simpler one - I just noticed the plants on the windowsill are dry and need water and I gave them water. Looking back I cannot find a moment of deciding or choosing to do that, just a response.

X

[smudge]

Well, Its clear to all that seeing is happening.
Its been a pleasure and a delight to connect with you in this way.
Much love.
You will get an invite soon to facebook aftercare groups etc.
xxxxxxxxx

[Caitlin]

Thank you so very much for all you have done, I appreciate it very much, and feel very grateful,

Much love to you too,

xxx