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[Aka1508]

Hola again:

Need some clarification, please.

You asked (question 4)

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

What do you mean?

A.

[Hare]

Hola!

Thanks for the previous reply to that last question - yes, it makes sense.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?


What do you mean?

Was there a particular point when the illusory nature of self was conclusively seen through? For some it is a specific moment that is clearly a turning point. For others it is a more gradual falling away, but there may still be 'landmarks' where the view shifted. Say something about the shift between not seeing and seeing.

By for now
x H

[Aka1508]

Hi again...

Thank you for clarifying question number 4 for me... I'll reply soon, as soon as I finish a meeting that started really early over here.

Will reply the following question... I had been clarifying it myself, looking it as DE... because I have a tendency to think it through rather than seeing through...

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

Till later... thank you por your patience.

A grateful Akita

[Hare]

Hi! Yes reply from DE as much as possible, just like you say - seeing not thinking.
Until later x

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[Aka1508]

Hola, buenas noches... buenas madrugadas (good early morning)

Continue ...

First, the first part of the question:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

As DE... I can say 'no', kind of a definite 'NO'. There isn't a separate entity called 'me', 'I'. As hard as I try, it is nowhere to be found... it is kind of weird though... as if there is still a shadow of a doubt... (the mind casting a shadow of a doubt? and knowing, as DE, that a thought is only a thought, not reality... still weiiiiirddd...

To the second part of the question:

1) ...Was there ever?

I would say no... yet the impression is that before I thought there was, or at least assumed it to be that way...

would that answer the question? If not, please let me know.

Love

:-) Akita

[Hare]

Hola!

Am on my phone and can't figure out the quote function..

Ask that question again and watch the response. Is this "shadow of a doubt" found in DE? Look. What is doubt? Reality or content of a passing thought? Is it something to be believed? Where does it reside? Investigate thoroughly. Look and look again until this becomes clear, report back!

'I would say no'
Who would say no?

Happy investigating!

Enjoying this adventure
:-) H

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[Hare]

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[Aka1508]

Hola, Good evening, good morning,

Am on my phone and can't figure out the quote function..

I haven't been able to use even talpatalk on my iphone... either. Haven´t been able to figure out the quote function on my ipad ... :(

Is this "shadow of a doubt" found in DE? Look. What is doubt? Reality or content of a passing thought? Is it something to be believed? Where does it reside? Investigate thoroughly. Look and look again until this becomes clear, report back!

The shadow of a doubt I was referring to definitely pointed to a passing thought... as such it had no reality... therefore it is not something to be believed in...

all this questioning... is mind blowing....

honestly

Akita

[Aka1508]

Hi again... same evening

Since I haven't written for over 24 hrs, it seems fitting to try to answer the second of the five questions you sent...

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Actually, there are three aspects to the question, so I will answer them separately...

a:

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is

It is not easy to explain... the illusion is just that, an illusion.. An illusion is a distortion of something that is being perceived by the senses... An illusion is an interpretation of an experience, as such it is not the experience itself, it is not even a description of the experience. Descriptions are perhaps closer to experiences, yet there are not the experience in itself. Experiences are difficult to convey. They are something that arises one moment and start vanishing into thin air the next. An illusion is like a mirage.

What is being distorted? Experience, reality as it is... An illusion could be an interpretation... the distortion happens when the interpretation replaces the DE.

So... an illusion of a separate self... is a distortion ... it is a belief that there is something, somewhere, a kind of an entity... a masterminded, a mini-mi, looking from somewhere the world it lives in... and even looking at itself... believing that it exists...!

b:

when it starts

...

That's a very good question... Sometimes it starts immediately after the DE... It starts when it is unbearable to stay with the DE. It starts when its passing becomes unbearable... it starts when I want the DE to last a bit longer. It starts when I start asking questions (what is this? what it is made of? why is it here?) and try to stop time -as it where- to explore a thing that doesn't really exist. It starts when there is something that comes up, emerging from who knows where, like a hungry beast, wanting to posses what has just been experienced.

It starts when I want to make sense of whatever I am and the world I live in... It starts when I want something to tell me that 'I' exist... that 'I' am important... that the passing thoughts I think refer to real things... to real people... to real and existing relations... it starts when I am not able to see that there is nothing there... that the world I try to comprehend does`t really exist...

how it works?

...

Not sure if 'I' understand this last bit of the question... will answer as I understood it....

it casts a spell... that sense of self has been created through the breathing life... in fact, I don't know how it was created... it is as if something has been enchanted... I really don't know what it is... I only know as DE... that the thoughts I think are like magical potions, because the mind (oh, my gosh what is a mind?) wants to believe... (please don't ask me where that mind or something that wants to believe, reside, because I honestly don't know)... from my experience, sometimes I feel something ... my gosh it doesn't make sense...

it works because it casts a spell... an enchantment...

Hare... I'm laughing ... because whatever the answer ... I end up talking as if something exists ... ordering the world, ordering me around... making sense... and may be there is that something, otherwise, how is life possible without certain kind of order or sense of direction...?

Im done for tonight... 'see' you tomorrow...

Good night...

a bewildered and laughing

Akita...

[Hare]

Hi Akita,
Thanks so much for these explorations. Yes, self view is a big joke!

First lets pursue question 1, now that shadow of doubt has been seen for what it is - a passing thought, not something worth believing in. Please answer Q1 again, as it comes, now.

And then feel free to continue with the other questions..

Remember doing that exercise that involved writing about experience without using the words 'I', myself, etc? Is it possible to bring.something of that into your responses now? Of course subject and object are part of the structure of language and sometimes we need to use those words to make sense. But it can be helpful in this process to be less reliant on 'I' etc, find more direct ways of expressing what is seen in DE...where possible!

Big heart wishes and a big smile :-)
Hare









































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[Aka1508]

Hi... good morning...

Back to question No. 1... after the shadow of a doubt has been cleared out...

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

Keep looking can become a kind of a mantra... just keep looking and tell whether there is a separate entity... seems to have been the exercise all this time... Great... that's what's needed... following the advice

be less reliant on 'I' etc,

Here it goes...

First of all, is there an entity 'self', 'me', 'I'... if there is an answer to the 'entity' bit of the question, then the 'separate' bit sort of becomes irrelevant, unless there is a self that is not separate ... from what?

It is easier to think of an entity... when the looking is for an entity... the whole process becomes easier... it is easy to say 'no' there isn't, because after looking and looking there is nothing to be found that is separate from all the processes perceived through the senses... (is that the separation that is talked about?) ...

there is knowing, as a felt experience (DE), that there is not an entity 'self' ... it is a deep kind of knowing, from the bone marrow, as it where, although there is also a feeling that that knowing needs to be firmly established... like really firmly established as a 24/7 experience (DE)... how does that arise? Is it through constant looking?



Love - Akita :-)

[Hare]

Hi Akita!

Keep looking can become a kind of a mantra

Yes!

Skipping back a post, you wrote that the illusion of self:

starts when I start asking questions (what is this? what it is made of? why is it here?) and try to stop time -as it where- to explore a thing that doesn't really exist.

Yes, 'thought' likes to ask questions. Akita, notice papancha, without being caught up in it. When looking, stay with DE. Thought might have many questions! Watch it do it's thing. Notice without identification. Are 'you' 'your' thoughts?

there is knowing, as a felt experience (DE), that there is not an entity 'self' ... it is a deep kind of knowing, from the bone marrow

Yes!!! :-)

although there is also a feeling that that knowing needs to be firmly established... like really firmly established as a 24/7 experience (DE)... how does that arise? Is it through constant looking?

This sounds like 'yes, but...'

Do you see how mind keeps coming up with questions about what is 'needed', about the future...?

Is anything lacking, now, in DE, that can be made right or 'fixed', in the future?


Following on from this process, it is natural to keep looking, returning to DE. Relax. No need to 'do' it.

Do not expect to be permanently dwelling in DE. Mind and thought still do what they do, it's just that they are closer to their rightful relation to DE: supporting DE, rather than thought always being the 'main show'.


I'm curious whether you can answer Q1 without any shade of 'yes, but..'? (Mind, ever restless, may go round that loop. Is there any need to buy into this?) Have another go and see what happens!

And please continue with the other questions...

Love

Hare ;-)

[Aka1508]

Hi Hare...

Haven't replied because it has been raining quite a lot and the electricity was suspended for almost 24 hrs. It was reconnected ... will reply later...

Sorry for this...

Akita

[Hare]

Hi Akita, ok thanks for letting me know. Until later:-) H

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[Aka1508]

Hi Hare,

good evening - good morning

I'm curious whether you can answer Q1 without any shade of 'yes, but..'? (Mind, ever restless, may go round that loop. Is there any need to buy into this?) Have another go and see what happens!

Q1 seems to be the crucial point, eh? Thank you for keeping me on my toes regarding this question...

So...here it goes again...

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

It can't be found ...

Do not expect to be permanently dwelling in DE. Mind and thought still do what they do, it's just that they are closer to their rightful relation to DE: supporting DE, rather than thought always being the 'main show'.

Thank you for telling me that the mind will continue being restless... that is the experience... of a restless, enquiring mind...

Today, walking down the street, found a new meaning to one of the Buddha's teachings: 'when walking you know you are walking... etc.' it is so easy to assume the meaning of such a profound teaching... but today... today... it was like a DE kind of experience... there was just walking... nothing else... just moving one leg after the other... no thought or an idea of walking...

Who was doing the walking? No answer... just the walk... no-one was walking, yet there was movement, the walking... amazing... I can't describe it ...

You write:

Mind....supporting DE, rather than thought always being the 'main show'.

In what ways does mind support DE?