Looking for a guide

[Josephkoudelka]

Look at your right hand. In direct experience, describe right hand.

[jad437]

There is looking at a right hand but if there is no movement I cannot even sense that it is there. There is merely observing of an object there that thoughts label as hand.

[Josephkoudelka]

There is looking at a right hand but if there is no movement I cannot even sense that it is there. There is merely observing of an object there that thoughts label as hand.

in direct experience, describe "looking at right hand". (Close your eyes for a few moments once or twice too as you explore this in direct experience)

[jad437]

There is looking at a right hand but if there is no movement I cannot even sense that it is there. There is merely observing of an object there that thoughts label as hand.

in direct experience, describe "looking at right hand". (Close your eyes for a few moments once or twice too as you explore this in direct experience)

There's nothing there. In the direct experience of closing my eyes the only thing that is sensed is a presence, but no sense of there being a hand.

[Josephkoudelka]

In the direct experience of closing my eyes the only thing that is sensed is a presence, but no sense of there being a hand.

In direct experience, describe closing the eyes.

[jad437]

lol...i can't describe it. There is just seeing...images..forms and then there isn't. Appearances and then the disappearance of those images.

[Josephkoudelka]

lol...i can't describe it. There is just seeing...images..forms and then there isn't. Appearances and then the disappearance of those images.

Who knows this, in direct experience? Is the I?

[jad437]

No...Just experience...and description...there doesn't seem to be a separate thing who knows this...I don't really know..there's less and less to say.

[Josephkoudelka]

No...Just experience...and description...there doesn't seem to be a separate thing who knows this...I don't really know..there's less and less to say.

Are experience and the description of experience two different things in direct experience(DE)?

[jad437]

No, the description of the experience arises in the experience but it's not separate from the experience..

OMG!!!its the description of the experience (self) that is believing itself to be separate from the experience!!

[Josephkoudelka]

Are you a body or a mind?


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[jad437]

I had to step out of mind for this...because I kept going back to what the mind had heard. In this DE i am that which experiences itself in the apparent form of a body and mind but I am not that.

[Josephkoudelka]

In DE, what difference is there for any perception? Body, mind, desk, chair, sky...?


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[jad437]

It's hard to put into words. There is nothing really. Things appear but there are no beliefs that the body, or the chair, or the chair are really as they are. Only empty words or sounds pointing to a thing...but the description can't truly explain what it is.

[Josephkoudelka]

Do you know the description, or does the description know you?


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