Asking for a guide

[Shony]

Hi Ray Thank you for the link to illona's 7 steps.it is very helpful. Today was a difficult day with alot of emotions and the label i attached to them. Everything repressed is having the chance to come up. When it does happen it is not a picnik. My experiance of life is the same.i have not disapeared even though i see that i is just a label. i still feel sensations in the body and in the chest. Thoughts of i and mine still arising by themselves.The "controller" is becoming weak so life have a chance to get rid of "stuff" no more needed. Maybe i have to acknowledge that i have passed thruogh the gateless gate. My mind says. "Are you kidding . Full of fears. contracted.feeling separated from others?".Well this is the voice of the mind.And... who is going to tell me that i passed through the gate.
What am i waiting for? For an invitation? Now ,the the questions i ask myself are: Is there a self or not? Have i seen that there is no self? Has anything changed within/without.Have i realy passed the gateless gate or my tail is still at the threshold? i am chacking it up.
Shony

[ray]

Hi Shony,

Are you the thinker of those thoughts and question?

Is there a gate to go through or someone to go through it?

Ray

[Shony]

Hi Ray
i am not the thinker of those thoughts and question. There is no gate to go through or someone to go through it.
Shony

[ray]

Oh yes!

Why not take a walk in nature, or just look around the room.
Let me know how is this settling.

You've said at the start of this dialogue that this is understood. Is it now clearly seen that there is no separate self?

Is there some aspect you would like to look at more closely. Are there any sticking points?

Ray

[Shony]

Dear Ray
It is now 3 o'clock in the morning. Today is my assisting day in the yoga teachers' training course so it will be a good opportunity to see if there are any sticking points.You ask if i see that there is no separate self. Yes, and also i see that yesterday i felt very much separated from the people around me.Is there a separated someone or just feeling contracted and labeling it as "i am contracted and separate". i see now when writing to you that there is no i.It is just a thought.The body/mind organism called Shony will continue to experiance pleasure and pain.Thoughts of i will continue to arise and identification with body/mind processes will continue. what has changed i think and today it will be checked out is that i is only a label being attached to the process of feeling ,thinking and sensing through the senses.i don't know what will happen with me.i say yes to life and ask it to purify me from all the stuff it has gathered through ignorance.
I think it is very important for guides to relate in some way when someone is writing them that he had a bad day.
Yes, guides are not psychologists but when someone is opening his life and there is no response ,the feeling is of being deserted and alone in the process. It is beautiful to acknowledge someone's suffering by saying "thank you for sharing this". This creats connection.Sterility in this kind of operation in which "the self is being cut" is lonliness for the person under operation.
i will write again today god's willing
Shony

[ray]

Hi Shony,

I absolutely agree with you about the companionship of the guide as these steps are taken. It is always an honour to walk with someone as seeing happens! My previous posts have been so brief because I sent them from my phone - it's a holiday weekend here. Please be assured there was compassion behind my words which were aimed to keep your focus on "the gate".

Lots of old stuff will be coming up now, all beliefs will be under scrutiny. The rug has been pulled on the "I" that attaches to troublesome memories (and pleasant memories) from the past. Watch as this happens and be, as it were, a student of yourself. I'm walking with you.
After the gate we have another area on this forum and facebook groups for sharing and support of new arrivals, community, further looking and guiding.

i see that yesterday i felt very much separated from the people around me.Is there a separated someone or just feeling contracted and labeling it as "i am contracted and separate". i see now when writing to you that there is no i.It is just a thought.The body/mind organism called Shony will continue to experiance pleasure and pain.Thoughts of i will continue to arise and identification with body/mind processes will continue. what has changed i think and today it will be checked out is that i is only a label being attached to the process of feeling ,thinking and sensing through the senses.

That all sounds pretty clear. With no "I" that controls thought what is to stop thoughts of separate I happening? Or thoughts of "he should have..." , "why didn't she...", and so on. You will either look at these thoughts as they arise and see them for what they are, or you may get wrapped up in them and notice later that the story of a separate self was being played out. At anytime look again in direct experience and see that there is no separate self that any of this happens to.

i say yes to life and ask it to purify me from all the stuff it has gathered through ignorance.

This sentiment is beautiful and has a lovely quality. Look at it a little closer, is there an "I" to say yes? Is there a me to be purified, and was ignorance something that someone did or was it also part of the illusion?

I hope your day is another opening to experience. Let me know how it goes.

With loving warmth,
Ray

[Shony]

Thank you , Thank you,Thank you Ray for your loving words.There is no i to say yes to life.There is no me to be purified.Ignorance was not being done by anyone.Only in thinking it seems to be so.
Today was a great day of no-self.i was looking into the eyes of 5 monthes baby and new that he also just experiance seeing,hearing .sensing,feeling.No language .No thought "i". It is so simple. i is only a label attached to our experiance of feeling,sensing,doing,and thinking.There is no i.only thoughts of i. there is love and happiness to see it at last.Thank you Ray and allthe love to you
Shony

[ray]

Hi Shony,

It's lovely to read your words.

There is no i to say yes to life.There is no me to be purified.Ignorance was not being done by anyone.Only in thinking it seems to be so.
Today was a great day of no-self.i was looking into the eyes of 5 monthes baby and new that he also just experiance seeing,hearing .sensing,feeling.No language .No thought "i". It is so simple. i is only a label attached to our experiance of feeling,sensing,doing,and thinking.There is no i.only thoughts of i. there is love and happiness to see it at last.

Yes it is so simple. How amazing that we miss this simple seeing for all those years! You see that this is so looking in the eyes of a little one.
Now you see no self in you, do others have a self?

Please PM (private message) me with your Facebook name.

Here are some standard questions that we ask. They will be reviewed by other guides, who may ask further questions before you are invited to join us in our Facebook groups.
Please watch out for our site logging you off, which can happen during a long reply. I'd advise pressing the "preview" button regularly or composing your reply in another editor and then cut-and-paste.

1)Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5)Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

6)Anything to add?

You can answer these a couple at a time, or all at once. No rush whatsoever.

Love,
Ray

[ray]

It may feel better to see how things settle and explore a bit more through this dialogue. We can do that instead of diving in to those 6 questions.

Whatever comes up,
Ray

[Shony]

Hi Ray.
i am not in Facebook,yet. To your question about self in others.There is no self in others.We can think about a person and have a memory/image of him but this is like a photo of a river . The photo freezes a moment in the life of the river.A person is a flowing river of thoughts and feeling. No self within it.
Thank you for offering continuing the dialogue.Nice of you and there is no need.
So i am going into the final questions.
Shony

[Shony]

1There is no self or i anywhere in any shape or form.There was never a self. A self is only a label that humans learned to attach to the process of mind/body.The word i does not point to any -thing .
2 At the age of 2 when a child is starting to learn a language he also starts relating to himself as i, an Authoring entity that has the power to make the world around him do what he wants. That sense of being a separate independent authoring entity is attached through the word i to the developing ego structure of the child. The child learns to adapt to the world around him . He learns natural boundries that allow him to funnction in life.Most humans do not go further in their development into seeing the illusory nature of the i . Now i am very tired and going to take a rest and continue later.

[Shony]

3 I have come to question # 5 and it was erased.A feeling of frustration and anger is arising .This is blody life sometimes.What to do.I am not the creator of this anger. i am not the creator of wise thoughts arising to calm me "you became clearer by writing and it was not a waste of time". The wise voice in the head is talking but to no-one.In the last two days reactions seem to past more quickly and there is less stickness.Less guilt maybe.
More flowing as the process of life.

[Shony]

4 Ray asked "Are you the thinker of your thoughts and question?" Even now i can see that thoughts and questions are only mental patterns arising because of stimuly from the senses. Someone asked " Is there a feeler behind feelings?" . Illona's 7 steps and articles about language and labeling was clearing my mind. Driving Yesterday in Jerusalem(i don't live there) there was in one moment a panoramic view and it was seen that the experince stands on its own legs without the label i attached to it.

[Shony]

Infinite causes and conditions are responsible for our thoughts ,feelings and actions.There is no separate i with free will and choice who is responsible for all of this. A drug addict has become one "thanks" to genes and environmental influences. i didn't choose to to have Ocd. When very young i have been in a cult and in order to survive this organism called Shony started to react to life through its thinking with fearful and violent thoughts. Dear friends,Our life are being authored by life itself.2 million people in America are suffering from Ocd.There is an unholy marrige between the illusory thinker and its obssesive thoughts.The way to heal is to see that under the thinking processes there are emotions and under emotions there are contracted body sensations and behind body sensations there is no-one.

[Shony]

A thought is arising to do something. The attention moves between alternatives.Then at one moment an action is happening.If something is done many times an habit is being created.When driving the control of the wheel is done by the brain/mind of the organism. When i am good to you thank god for it. He/It/She did it Through the organism called Shony. Child molesters did not choose to be that way.Compassion is arising for the innocent organisms that cannot be different from how they are.A prostitute can change her life only if a very strong influence enter the scene. It can be a person or a life changing event.When we train a maraton runner we will use a positive words like"You can do it" even though we know deeply that he is not the author of his ability to run 42 Km.When doing an accident i will be responsible inthe court before the judge and maybe have to pay to the other person.But deep inside i know everything just happened and i was not the 'doer".