ONGOING CONVERSATION AT FACEBOOK GATE
Hey Denise! DianaM here, we can continue our conversation in this post!
30 MAY AT 18:48
Diana Martínez When do you want to start?
Denise Ra i've got 30 minutes now if u do
Denise Ra "Could it be that you are actually having direct experience and you get distracted because in direct experience nothing like an "i" is showing up? So your attention moves to what can be found there."
Diana Martínez I have time too
Denise Ra oops..i noticed today that even when i try to focus there is so much thought it drowns outs most everything else
Denise Ra are you here?
Diana Martínez yes, I am not used to the speed of facebook so I may take a little longer to answer.
Diana Martínez can you observe the thoughts from direct experience? not the content of them, but how they show up, stay for a while, spin around for a while, and then fade? Can you try it now?
Denise Ra ok, it's all good and my browser didn't update when you posted. o wow, that's twisted - to observe thought in DE but not content. this may take some practice
Diana Martínez Yes, thoughts can be observed through DE (Direct Experience) too. You can practice it when you get time.
Denise Ra that is kind of what i did today. i did notice thoughts and got sucked into them.
Diana Martínez yes, but for a while you were looking at what they do, you look at how thoughts act instead of what they tell you.
Denise Ra yes. i like that idea and can practice that.
Diana Martínez Good, keep trying it and report when you're ready. I will remind you of this next time we chat.
Diana Martínez do you want to look at the next question?
Denise Ra yes please
Diana Martínez Denise: "i definitely see the difference between what is perceived and thought."
That's great!! Can you still percieve even when thoughts are not present?
Denise Ra o yes
Diana Martínez Can you see that thoughts are not percieving, only labelling what was percieved?
Denise Ra yes i can
Diana Martínez Denise "i did do the exercise again, with the same distracted result. almost no looking for 'i'. i seem to forget to look or if i remember, i lose focus right away."
Diana: Thoughts are not an obstacle, when they show up use them like this: "I'm Looking for the i, thoughts start again, they say this, this and this, notice what they say and focus in the difference between the thought and what is happening in the moment. As with the exercise of eating the imaginary fruit v.s. eating the real fruit. Which is more real?
Denise Ra yes, i did notice the thoughts today, all about ego stuff and then tried to focus on DE. thoughts are so insistent. DE is something i need to focus on and PRACTICE. thoughts are like a tidal wave and drown everything else most of the time. so it is difficult for me to say that DE is more real than thoughts.
Diana Martínez It is real that thoughts exist, we can´t deny that. What I mean is that the content of thoughts is not exactly the same as the thing they describe.
Diana Martínez Is the word blue the same as the color it describes?
Denise Ra yes, content of thought is one step removed from the real thing. same with language.
Diana Martínez Yes!
Diana Martínez I think that is clear to you now. Could it be that thoughts about Denise doesn´t exactly describe reality?
Denise Ra yes, hm.
Diana Martínez We have already observed how language works in a previous post in the forum. Beside describing what is happening and working as a tool for communication, can you find something else behind words like I, me, my, etc?
Denise Ra it's hard to look 'behind' those words. there is such a long time of never questioning them and so much time spent believing them.
Diana Martínez Yes, isn´t it funny that we spent so long without questioning them?
Denise Ra i must stop here now. when would you like to FB again?
Diana Martínez ok. Can you on weekend?
Denise Ra some of the time yes. more so if we plan ahead. i don't have a smart phone so have to be on computer.
Diana Martínez I have no smartphone either. I can on saturday afternoon or sunday morning or afternoon.
Denise Ra what time saturday afternoon? it's 6:45 here now.
Diana Martínez 4:00pm or 4:30pm your time. (five over here)
Diana Martínez What do you think? Do you like facebook guiding more than the forum?
Denise Ra four is good. i like the interaction here though i suppose we could do the same in the forum?
Diana Martínez it would flood your e-mail with notifications. we could try here again.
Denise Ra ok good. at 4 my time tomorrow afternoon. thanks so much.
Diana Martínez Agreed, you're welcome.
I guess I have already given you this exercise, but please try it again when you have time. You need 20 minutes to do this, you will observe what is happening and describe it as simply as possible, no past or future only what is happening in the moment, and you have to write it down. Pay attention also to the sensations in the body while you do this.
The first 10 minutes you will describe what is happening adding I am before each note.
For example: I am writing, I am thinking, I am listening to music, I am observing.
Next 10 minutes of the observation you will describe what you observe but using only verbs, without using the words I, my, me.
It will look like this: Writing, observing, eating, typing, watching.
After this is finished read both lists, compare the two ways of labelling experience, tell me what did you notice.
Denise Ra can do.
Diana Martínez also the observation of thoughts in direct experience.
Diana Martínez Ok, then we´ll meet tomorrow.
Denise Ra yes. i will do both.
31 MAY AT 17:02
Diana Martínez I'm back here Denise, Let me know when you are ready to start.
Denise Ra sorry im late. had problems.
Diana Martínez It's ok, are you ready to begin?
Denise Ra yes, thanks. I did exercise and there is no need for the'i' in order to feel, think, notice, etc.
Diana Martínez Anything else you want to comment about it?
Denise Ra it all happens and 'i' is only a story
Diana Martínez Then, what can you find something behind the words "i", "me", "mine" ?
Denise Ra wow, my mind goes blank when u ask that
Diana Martínez why does that happen?
Denise Ra I feel like a deer in the headlights. give me a minute and I will try to look.
Denise Ra my mind is blank
Diana Martínez Interesting, you said you never got moments withouth thoughts, there is one here. hehe
Denise Ra yes, I noticed that
Diana Martínez good oportunity to look
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez What about the other exercise, could you practice looking at thoughts in direct experience?
Denise Ra yes. i'm looking for the I, give me a few more minutes and I will get back to you thx
Diana Martínez ok
Denise Ra i'm feeling some tightness over my heart and let it go. will keep looking and see what else
Diana Martínez take your time, observe anything that comes.
Denise Ra solar plexus is sore. nothing else
1 JUNE AT 16:02
Denise Ra so yesterday i got to look at thoughts and not get sucked in to them and also feel how the affected my body. that was good.
Diana Martínez Hello again, can you tell me more about what you could notice from looking at thoughts that way?
Denise Ra thoughts were not so powerful and i did not react to them.
Diana Martínez how did they affect your body?
Denise Ra powerfully. i felt them hit my heart and instead of resisting i let them kind of burn themselves out.
Diana Martínez could you notice how a reaction to the thought happened?
Denise Ra the reaction was in my body. it was related to past beliefs. when i noticed the thoughts and did not react to the thought then i felt my heart. is this what you are asking?
Diana Martínez yes, very well observed.
Denise Ra kool.
Diana Martínez That was exactly the instruction, you looked at the thoughts but for a moment looked through the content of them, so the attention went somwhere else.
Denise Ra it was powerful. there was a lot of release of old energy/belief. is that how looking is? is there a thought i can look past to See?
Diana Martínez You have to try to look for the "i" behind what thoughts tell you about it.
Denise Ra ah
Denise Ra so, when i have an I thought i can see it in DE?
Diana Martínez Exactly! when you are looking for the "i" thoughts will tell you things about it, even a whole story about it, look if you can find something that is not thought content that is a separate "i" or that proves that there is an "i".
Diana Martínez It is what I meant all the times before when I asked you to look, not to think about it.
Denise Ra if i don't find an i or if my mind goes blank i can notice my body?
Diana Martínez You can notice direct experience, perceptions, physical sensations, how thoughts arise, how emotions arise, you can experience what is happening in the here and now and not stories about it.
Denise Ra yes, that seems more doable than it did even a few days ago
Diana Martínez Great!
Denise Ra this is a useful conversation.
Diana Martínez I'm glat that you're finding it useful! I like this paragraph from the LU quotes, I will share here
"Look at a university. All it is, is a bunch of buildings,
with certain types of people, with certain things being
thought there. The label “university” is put on this area, and
the feel of it being a university becomes very real, almost
like an entity in itself. But there is only a bunch of buildings
there. Now take your life, your limbs, head, brain, blood,
guts, memories, thoughts, and feelings. All this stuff very
much exists and is very real, but when all this stuff references
itself and uses language like “me,” “myself,” and “I,”
over time something that seems real appears, a feeling of
ownership over all that—a feeling of control, a feeling of “I
am my name,” “This is me.” But truthfully, there’s nothing
more there than the brain, the blood, the guts, the thoughts,
the memories, and so on."
Denise Ra yes. this process is helping to uncover the false beliefs and release them.
Diana Martínez You can have a thought about a self, for example: "this is who i am". Then an emotion may arise as a reaction to it, a physical sensation may happen too. making this "identification" more real, creating the sensation of an "i" there but is it real?
Diana Martínez Look at this picture, can you find a triangle here?
http://www.wpclipart.com/.../optical... ... iangle.png
http://www.wpclipart.com
http://www.wpclipart.com
Denise Ra ah yes, the same illusion as "i" thought, emotion and physical sensation create
Diana Martínez Reality is seen when the illusion is seen through, when it becomes obvious how it works
http://www.optics4kids.org/.../opt.../k ... iangle.gif...
http://www.optics4kids.org
http://www.optics4kids.org
Denise Ra so yesterday because i looked at the thought and did not get sucked in to it, and because i also did not get sucked into the emotion that came with the thought i was able to be with the physical sensation that came up and let it pass through. i can also do this with "i" thoughts and at some point will realize the truth about "i"?
Diana Martínez yes
Denise Ra awesome
Diana Martínez What still tells you that there is an "i"?
Denise Ra just habit
Diana Martínez At this point, what comes up when you read this: There is no you, there never was a you and never will be.
Denise Ra i feel some tension around my heart
Diana Martínez anything else?
Denise Ra nope, just calm
Diana Martínez I should be going now, keep this in mind until we chat again, keep observing to thoughts in DE, Keep looking for the "i" in DE behind the content of "i" thoughts. Keep seeing what comes up when you read this phrase i just wrote (there is no you...)
Denise Ra will do
2 JUNE AT 12:02
Denise Ra when i would look at an "i" thought my mind tried to shoot off in any other direction than DE. so managed it briefly once or twice for only a short period of time. when looking at "there is no you" my mind is pretty blank.
Diana Martínez Hello Denise!
Denise Ra hi diana!
Diana Martínez Ok, when your mind goes blank pay attention to everything else happening, perceptions, physical sensations, everything... and see if any of these give you any evidence of an "i"
Diana Martínez Don't look for the answer in the content of thoughts but in everything else happening here and now.
Denise Ra the messy house indicates someone lives here
Diana Martínez what do you mean? Explain a bit more about it please.
Denise Ra i keep thinking about zombies.zombies have no "i", they just do what they do. if we have no "i", no control or choice, then we too are zombies.
Diana Martínez and animals just do what they do, Do animals need an i for their life to happen? what is the difference between animals just doing what they do and people? What has control or choice?
Denise Ra i know. i get it. we just appear different from animals because we have technology.
Denise Ra and self-awareness
Diana Martínez what is self-awareness?
Denise Ra maybe it's thinking we have an "i". it's also knowing we exist, inhabit a body - that's more "i"...
Diana Martínez I changed my forum phrase a while ago. it says: I think, therefore (i believe that) i am. What comes up when you read it?
Denise Ra i didn't get it, but now i do..very good!
Diana Martínez What is being aware?
Denise Ra being aware is being present with what is. being self-aware is creating a 'self'.
Diana Martínez self-awareness... Is there something that is aware of itself? or is awareness something that just happens?
Denise Ra self-awareness is the problem i am having right now. i am stuck in believing i am separate and have a self, an i.
Diana Martínez Now, there is information coming from nerves of a body that is there, you get physical sensations, the body is alive, does that mean that there is a you there?
Diana Martínez Look at this now, look at the physical sensations
Diana Martínez close your eyes and feel them
Denise Ra ok
Denise Ra no 'you' needed.
Diana Martínez Is the existance of a physical body and it's sensation the evidence of an I?
3 JUNE AT 12:03 • LIKE
Denise Ra no it is not.
Diana Martínez If you observe your physical body and sensation, can a thought pop up telling you that there is a you there?
Denise Ra yes it can
Diana Martínez does that make the thought true?
Denise Ra nope
Diana Martínez Look at the image again, can you see how a triangle SEEMS to be in there?
http://www.wpclipart.com/.../optical... ... iangle.png
http://www.wpclipart.com
http://www.wpclipart.com
Denise Ra yes, like the "i" seems to exist
Diana Martínez Ok, what else seems to tell you that there is an "i" ?
Diana Martínez Look for the "i" now, what seems to indicate that there is an "i" there?
Denise Ra emotional reaction seems to be the most likely culprit in pointing to an "i"
Diana Martínez Well observed!
Diana Martínez what do these emotions react to?
Denise Ra things that seem to threaten my self-image
Denise Ra and things that seem to threaten my body
Diana Martínez If your body is going to trip and fall an emotion react. A reaction to something that could threaten the body,
Diana Martínez Is that the same kind of reaction that when you feel your "self-image" threatened?
Denise Ra sorry say again please
Diana Martínez Oh I hadn't finished writing, read the two last phrases together
Denise Ra ok
Denise Ra they are very similar
Diana Martínez are you feeling these reactions now?
Denise Ra no
Diana Martínez When they come again try to stay with them, observe if you can find out if they feel like the reaction to danger.
Denise Ra yes i will
Diana Martínez and remember to write it here when you find out.
Denise Ra yes ok
Diana Martínez See if surrendering to the emotion happens, try to flow with it. Stay with it for a while, focus in the raw emotion.
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez A good way of getting this emotions out is readind this and observing anything that comes up. At this point, what comes up when you read this: There is no you, there never was a you and never will be.
Diana Martínez read this phrase a few times a day and be alert.
Denise Ra right now i am ok with it. no reaction. calm
Diana Martínez ok, that's why I tell you to keep trying it later. Then let's continue with something else.
Diana Martínez This is a list I posted a while ago:
What is this “i”????...
Is the i the thinker of thoughts?
Is the i the feeler of feelings?
Is the i the doer of actions?
Is the i the this body you see when you look at the mirror?
Is the i the brain or any other organ in the body?
Is the i the owner of this body?
Is the i the decider or controller of “your life”?
Is the i the owner of “your life”?
Is the i the experiencer of experiences?
Is the i something real behind language, something else than the 9th letter of the alphabet?
Is the i something real behind a language label?
Is the i your emotional reactions?
Is this i the observer making this investigation happen or the seeker that started it?
Is the i the hearer of sounds, the looker behind these 2 holes in your head, the taster of flavors, the smeller of smells, what experiences the texture of what is touched?
Diana Martínez You said you found no "i" in any of those places. Read the list line by line and see if you notice some contradiction (for example, I know there is no "i" doing the actions, but I got this contradictory feeling
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez take your time, i will be here
Denise Ra thanks
Denise Ra the owner of this body and the owner of this life
Diana Martínez Well done! what did you find that felt contradictory? an emotion, a physical sensation?
Denise Ra "the owner of this life" reminds me of the times i have been very angry about having no choice about existing.
Diana Martínez How do you know you own something? (a chair, a computer, a house a body, a life)
Denise Ra ownership is only a belief
Denise Ra i don't own this body and i don't own this life. i will look at these two statements today and see what i find.
Diana Martínez Let's look at that deeper than what thoughts tell you about it.
YOUR chair or a chair?
YOUR computer or a computer?
YOUR house or a house?+
When you are outside of your house try this, look at it. look at the details, then look at the other houses. Then imagine you got amnesia and don't know which is your house.
Diana Martínez Can you find any evidence by only looking at the house that this is your house and not your neighbor's??
Denise Ra something in me wants to make it MY chair. i feel protective and kind of greedy and don't want anyone to take it.
Denise Ra it brings up a big MINE!
Diana Martínez Interesting
Denise Ra i'm an only child
Diana Martínez Hahaha (the only child comment was funny), Of course this has a practical purpose for society, we don't want stealing to happen. But if you look closer forgettig the worry of someone taking it, can you find any way to know this is really your chair, anything that is not a thought that proves it is yours? Anything that makes it different from the other serial made chairs?
Denise Ra the chair is in my possession. it's with me.
Denise Ra i love it.
Denise Ra it has meaning for me
Diana Martínez try this too with the house example. when you are outside you will see all the houses aligned in the same place.
Denise Ra the chair defines me somehow
Denise Ra i am very attached to some things. i feel safe when i can control them
Diana Martínez stay with these feelings for a while
Denise Ra if they were taken i would feel like a part of me was takenm
Denise Ra i would feel naked without them
Denise Ra vulnerable, lost
Denise Ra things are an anchor in both a good way and a bad way. i often wish i did not have things that meant so much to me
Denise Ra i've gotten rid of a lot of stuff in the last year as i have also begun to understood dismantling the self
Diana Martínez Can you see how a thought tells you that something is yours and it is suddenly transformed into "a part of you" something that you should protect and how the connection between you and chair happens?
Denise Ra i imagine it is something like people who are ill or injured feel.
Denise Ra i feel this in my chest and throat
Diana Martínez feel everything fully, contact it fully
Denise Ra i am seeing how tightly i hold onto the need to possess
Diana Martínez Stay with all the experience
Denise Ra my back hurts between my shoulders
Diana Martínez I don't want to distract you now, Keep writting what you feel like writing
Denise Ra ok. i am feeling how much tension there is in my whole rib cage, front and back, including my heart.
Denise Ra right now i can appreciate the chair and still feel very possessive
Denise Ra calmer now. still feeling lots of physical tension
Denise Ra i have been wondering about all the tension and soreness in my chest and neck. i've got plansi'm done
Denise Ra oops. i've got plans to get some bodywork though this inquiry might also release it
Diana Martínez Well done Denise, now you are really observing things BEHIND thoughts. this is the observation of direct experience
Diana Martínez you could contact emotions and body sensations very clearly
Diana Martínez what does that mean? oops. i've got plans to get some bodywork though this inquiry might also release it (english understanding problem)
Denise Ra get a massage or other bodywork like rolfing to release tension and stuckness in the body which can also release emotional stuckness.
Diana Martínez Oh ok
Diana Martínez But the most important is to use it while it's there, so you can practice observing them.
Denise Ra yes and i am ok with doing that
Diana Martínez Can you see how once you thought the chair is your chair, there is an emotion attachment, how it feels to have the fear of losing it?
Denise Ra i see it very clearly
Denise Ra the attachment to the the chair increases my sense of an "i" that could lose something
Diana Martínez Good observation!!
Diana Martínez So does the chair feels like a "part of you" that you fear loosing??
Denise Ra the picture that pops into my head is of me and the chair floating through space together, which would be better than me floating through space alone. i think that idea comes from some of the descriptions of no-self that say it is like free-fall with no solid ground
Diana Martínez does the idea of a free fall with no solid groud causes fear?
Denise Ra apparently
Denise Ra who wants to float through space entirely alone?
Denise Ra alone and separate
Diana Martínez It is funny, because a belief in a separate "i" is strongly defended.\
Denise Ra you say funny, i say scary
Diana Martínez What i mean is that you say who wants to be alone and separate? But a belief in a separate self is defended at any cost.
Diana Martínez sounds kind of ironic
Diana Martínez What would be lost if the belief in a separate you drops?
Denise Ra fear would be lost. i thought i was being honest this whole inquiry but it seems we are to another layer below the first
Diana Martínez yes! another level, you are looking deeper!
Diana Martínez But it was needed to see through the "outer layers" first.
Denise Ra ok. i think i am feeling every muscle in my rib cage right now. they are talking to me
Diana Martínez good!!
Diana Martínez Now you are not getting so distracted by the content of thoughts, that's why you can observe other things.
Denise Ra i see.
Diana Martínez Well done, keep observing in this way through the rest of the inquiry
Denise Ra yes i will
Diana Martínez remember to read this a few times before our chat tomorrow:
At this point, what comes up when you read this: There is no you, there never was a you and never will be.
4 JUNE AT 12:03
Denise Ra in reply to there is no you...not much comes up, pretty quiet right now.
Diana Martínez Did you read the phrase more times yesterday?
Denise Ra yes and early today - no reaction
Diana Martínez ok, what about the list, did you check it again?
Denise Ra yes. here is what i wrote trying to sort it out.is the i the observer making this in. ivestigation happen or the seeker that started it?
i started the investigation based on thoughts i have been a seeker for a while now. where did the thoughts come from? where all thoughts come from. am i in charge of thoughts?no. am i in charge of seeking? what seeks? me? something is seeking. universe seeking itself. but it knows we are not separate so why is it seeking? wants to get rid of the illusion of self. wants more direct experience through this body. tired of the distortion of this channel. so why doesn't it get rid of thoughts? why doesn't it magically help me to see? it sent LU to help me see through illusion. it is helping many many people see through the illusion of separation. so am i making this investigation happen? yes , this investigation is connected to this body. i am keeping it going by not quitting and by sitting down every day to do it.the universe gave me a taste of oneness four years ago and i have not forgotten it. it is the motivation for me to do this inquiry. what is the alternative?
the Universe is the seeker for itself and this body/mind is just along for the rider? i have been very angry before about being in existence without having any choice about it- no one asked me if i wanted to exist and think and feel and have a body.
there is a contradiction here. i think i am making this happen and i also think i have no choice about existing.
Diana Martínez How do you make this happen?
Diana Martínez How did YOU choose to start or to continue this investigation?
Denise Ra thoughts come up. i know thoughts are not mine. but i may still think action is mine because i act on the thoughts and continue the investigation
Diana Martínez What would own thoughts? it seems you're clear about this, but you feel that actions are yours?where is the difference?
Denise Ra the body is required for action. not so for thought.
Denise Ra thought can tell me to do an action but something actually decides whether to do it or not
Diana Martínez Oh, the body again, i see it now, the body is still giving a strong confirmation of this "i", right?
Denise Ra i think so
Diana Martínez action involves the body, so it seems that this "i"is related to body and actions.
Denise Ra yes
Diana Martínez feeling of the body exists, it has a nervous system and is alive. But as i asked before, what is telling you that the existence of a body proves an i, other than a thought about it?
Diana Martínez close your eyes again, feel the body sensations, then look for an i in there
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez you can try now, take your time and reply when you're finished
Denise Ra ok
Denise Ra hm, i feel sensations in the body but am not sure what i am looking for when looking for an "i".
Diana Martínez something that owns or control this body and/or it's actions
Denise Ra ok will look again now
Diana Martínez ok
Denise Ra i am back to control. i think i control the body
Diana Martínez did you try the exercise about looking at the houses and ownership?
Denise Ra i can't tell which house i live in by looks but there is a feeling of possession
Diana Martínez is that feeling a reaction to the thought "i own this house"
Denise Ra it's a feeling of attachment and possession
Diana Martínez the feeling reacts to the thought and stengthens it, right?
Diana Martínez can you see the thought-feeling cycle happening here?
Denise Ra can you spell it out for me? the cycle
Diana Martínez think about your house, observe the thought of owning it, observe how the feeling of ownership arises as a reaction to the thought. Then observe how this feeling feeds more thoughts of owning the house.
Diana Martínez try it now, think about your house, your chair, look at how this happens.
Denise Ra yes, the thought and then emotion, very strong emotion about possession
Diana Martínez can you observe how they "feed" each other?
Diana Martínez thoughts and emotions
Denise Ra yes. my house. strong feeling. thoughts of loss and possession. more stron emotion
Diana Martínez well done!
Diana Martínez this is how illusion is mantained and strenghthened
Denise Ra wow.
Diana Martínez you seem very clear that thoughts are not yours, are emotions yours?
Denise Ra no they are not
Diana Martínez are thoughts the same as reality?
Denise Ra no. thoughts are not reality.
Denise Ra the best a thought can be is one step removed from reality. the worst a thought can be is having nothing to do with reality
Diana Martínez exactly!
Diana Martínez are emotions that feed on thoughts reality?
Denise Ra i'm not sure if emotions are even real. i don't know what emotions are.
Diana Martínez well, they are there happening, just as thoughts, but is their content totally reliable?
Denise Ra they have a lot of energy though!
Diana Martínez Remember the difference between a thought and it's content, the same happen with emotions.
Denise Ra maybe not reliable at all.
Diana Martínez Both emotions and thoughts happen as a part of life, but they both also have content.
Denise Ra it seems like the practice of 'witnessing' is also the same as DE
Denise Ra or are we not DEing emotions?
Diana Martínez yes, you can witness an emotion happening in the same way you did with thoughts.
Denise Ra in witnessing we look at the thought or emotion one step removed
Diana Martínez observe this feeling or emotion of owning the chair, in the same way you did with thoughts.
Denise Ra ok,
Diana Martínez try it now
Denise Ra ok
Denise Ra no emotion here now about it.
Diana Martínez ok, observe it when one comes, from now on observe emotions in this way for the investigation.
Diana Martínez as you are doing with thoughts
Denise Ra yes i will
Diana Martínez about the decisions-actions try this. you will try to lift an arm, first relax and put your arms down at each side of the body. Then think "lift an arm" Then lift one of them (or not). See if you can find what raised your arm (or not),
Denise Ra arms are not lifting even though thought says lift
Diana Martínez could you find what decided to not move the arm even when thought said it?
Denise Ra nope
Diana Martínez what tells you that there is something controlling the body?
Denise Ra when i really want body to do something it does it
Denise Ra usually, ok sometimes
Diana Martínez why not always? wouldn't it have to respond always if you controlled it? can control come and go?
Denise Ra maybe control can come and go
Diana Martínez what is this i that controlls and owns a body and a life?
Diana Martínez when control goes, does it mean that the controller dissapeared for a while and then came back?
Denise Ra maybe it just means the body is not in agreement. you know sometimes they say that something has a mind of it's own.
Diana Martínez is that answer from direct experience? are you experiencing this now, or is a thought telling you that?
Denise Ra in DE the body has a mind of it's own. i experience that all the time
Denise Ra so are you saying that sometimes the body is in agreement with what "i' want and so i think "i" am controlling it?
Denise Ra and that i think it is mine
Diana Martínez body moves in agreemen with a thought, sometimes not. where is the i in that?
Denise Ra well what is this i? if the body and mind and thought and emotion are not in accord?
Denise Ra they are just globbed together and have no relation to each other?
Diana Martínez can a thought contradict an emotion, can a physical sensation contradict a thought? can the body not obey to the thought move your arm?
Denise Ra yes to your questions.
Diana Martínez why do this happens if there is an i controlling them?
Diana Martínez why can these contradictory things happen?
Diana Martínez wouldn't a central controlling "i" keep some harmony between them?
Denise Ra so, there is no center. the body is a meeting place for emotions and thoughts and actions that happen there
Denise Ra harmony would be nice but in truth it is rare.
Diana Martínez do you remember the example about the university? a lot of elements are there and they are grouped their under the label "university"
Denise Ra i actually get that now as it applies to the "i"
Diana Martínez thoughts happen, body moves, emotions happen, decisions happen, breathing happens, and a big label "Denise" is put over all of this. But what can you find behind the label?
Diana Martínez Behind the labels, the stories, the thoughts and emotions and feelings reacting to thoughts?
Denise Ra i'm trying to look in DE now
Denise Ra i just feel loose. like a conglomeration of loosely affiliated parts hovering together
Diana Martínez Well observed!
Diana Martínez Is the existance of the conglomeration called "i" anymore real than the university?
Denise Ra nope. "i" is a convenient name.
Diana Martínez Going back to the body thing again... Do YOU own a body and the body own a mind? how do you experience this?
Denise Ra the consciousness i experience is attached to this body somehow usually. the mind is attached to this body
Diana Martínez it is your mind, your body, your consciousness?
Denise Ra i can't tell
5 JUNE AT 12:14
Diana Martínez i am online now, tell me when you're ready.
Diana Martínez Let's continue then. You said: the consciousness i experience is attached to this body somehow usually. the mind is attached to this body. What does that mean?
Denise Ra well the brain is attached to this body and the thoughts and emotions also come through this body. awareness also only of this body.
Diana Martínez there is a brain, a body, emotions, awareness, thoughts, do these elements really form an "i" or is this something thoughts say?
Denise Ra the body seems to point to "i"
Denise Ra and from your list i also think maybe i am the "owner of this life"
Diana Martínez what in the body seems to point to that"? to an i
Denise Ra well , the body exists. it is real. it is where all these other things happen
Diana Martínez it exists and things happen, but can you find the limit between "inner" and "outer"? Are there clearly defined limits to this body?
Denise Ra skin is the outer limit
Diana Martínez Are you sure? do you remember the breathing exercise? take a few deep breaths, air constantly going in and out, can you find the limit in the air you breath, which part is your air and which the air that is not yours? Cnayou exactly indentify which air is from your body and which not?
Denise Ra my skin is always here. i'm solid enough that i can't walk through walls.
Diana Martínez is it? if you look under a microscope or you could see the atoms, could you tell where your atoms begin and where those of the chair end? Would you still see a solid thing?
Denise Ra ok not totally solid but i still don't fall through the chair and can't walk thru walls.
Diana Martínez how does that prove a separate self?
Denise Ra if i was not separate wouldn't i be able to have experiences that were not centered in this body, for instance i could have awareness through a bird or tree
Diana Martínez How could that function? wouldn't any life form go mad if simultaneously experiencing everything?
Denise Ra might not have to be simultaneous, just able to experience through other sometimnes
Diana Martínez "if i was not separate wouldn't i be able to have experiences that were not centered in this body, for instance i could have awareness through a bird or tree" Nervous system is limited to a body, how does that create separation?
Denise Ra i feel separate
Diana Martínez let's go back to the breathing exercise, try it and tell me what can you observe.
Denise Ra air goes in and air goes out
Diana Martínez can you tell the difference between the inner and outer air?
Denise Ra it all seems the same to me
Diana Martínez can you feel the exchange between inner and outer there in your breath?
Denise Ra no i cant
Diana Martínez close your eyes, feel how the air comes in and then how it comes out, very slowly.
Denise Ra air in and out and chest rising and falling
Diana Martínez does the skin limit breath?
Denise Ra no
Diana Martínez is the limit between inside and outside clear when you focus only in breath?
Diana Martínez you can try with eyes closed if it is easier
Denise Ra it is not clear when i focus on breath that there is a clear separation between me and outside of me
Diana Martínez Try also the other exercise of drinking water again. Are you somewhere you can get a glass of water?
Denise Ra got it
Denise Ra i feel it in my mouth and going down my throat and if it was colder i could feel it in my stomach, then i lose the sensation
Diana Martínez focus only in drinking the water, close your eyes, can you find the limit between the water inside and the water still in the glass?
Diana Martínez in the moment when you are drinking it
Denise Ra i feel the water in the glass pushing against my teeth and tongue
Diana Martínez what happens to the water that was first in the glass and is now in your stomach? Did the skin limited the water coming in?
Denise Ra nope
Diana Martínez could you notice how the water flowed freely to get to your stomach?
Denise Ra yes, it did
Diana Martínez try it also with some food when you have some available.
Denise Ra yes i will notice with food when i eat
Diana Martínez ok
Diana Martínez you may say here, ok the skin allows some things in and out but not all of it. Observe also when you sweat. water can go out through all your skin.
Diana Martínez (of course there is no need to try this now, but remember to observe when it happens)
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez Can the body survive even one day without letting something in or out your skin?
Denise Ra no not at all but that is an exchange. the body is still always there as long as it is alive
Diana Martínez is it?
Diana Martínez is your body the same one that it was a year ago?
Diana Martínez is the body a permanent and fixed thing?
Denise Ra no, it's not. but it never disappeared during that time
Denise Ra and even though it's elements have changed my consciousness is still with it
Diana Martínez For example, can a cell live 20 years? do you agree that the body is not permanent?
Denise Ra i agree the body is not permanent
Denise Ra and is ever-changing
Diana Martínez Is the skin really a barrier as solid as it seems?
Denise Ra skin is not solid
Diana Martínez Does it really separate you from the outside?
Diana Martínez Is a separate i defined by this skin?
Denise Ra it's weird, the body comes out of elements and goes back to elements.
Diana Martínez yes
Denise Ra if an i exists with each body then where does it come from?
Denise Ra it seems it would be there all along, even before and after the body somehow
Denise Ra why would it disappear with the body? maybe the i is the soul
Diana Martínez So the body is not permanent and comes from elements and goes back to elements. can something as the body imply a separate i?
Diana Martínez I should go now. Please do the 3 observing exercises later today
Diana Martínez breathing, water, food
Denise Ra yes i will. thanks.
Diana Martínez Wee meet until monday right?
9 JUNE AT 12:01
Denise Ra observing eating...food is outside of me, then chewed, then swallowing, then i feel it in my stomach for a while
Diana Martínez anything else?
Denise Ra not really
Diana Martínez Is the food first not you and becomes you in the instant you eat it? Is there a you to which this food is added?
Denise Ra all the food does not become me for a while though the body starts taking it apart quickly. there is a body to which this food is added. a you is not necessary for the body to be nourished, for example someone in a coma does not need an"i"
Diana Martínez Exactly, no I is needed for that
Diana Martínez did you try the water and the breathing exercise again?
Denise Ra oops, no
Diana Martínez ok, try them later today.
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez How do you feel about the body being the "i"?
Denise Ra when you asked that i felt my solar plexus all of a sudden
Denise Ra it tightened up
Diana Martínez do you feel any stress in that?
Denise Ra yes
Denise Ra why would my body be guarding the "i"?
Diana Martínez Is there a sensation of something being protected?
Denise Ra why does my body care if there is an "i"?
Diana Martínez is your body defending the i or reacting to the content of a thought or emotion?
Denise Ra the tightness is spreading
Diana Martínez Can a reaction to an imagined danger feel as the one to a real danger?
Denise Ra i just read the sentence and paused to understand the question and noticed the solar plexus. imagined danger can feel real.
Diana Martínez The body may be reacting because it feels that it is threatened even if it s not true
Denise Ra feels like body is defending "i"
Diana Martínez well observed
Denise Ra physically it's very uncomfortable. ribs are beginning to hurt
Diana Martínez Try to imagine this situation. Close your eyes and imagine you're at the top of a tall building, re-create all the sensation of being there, the wind, notice if it is dark or sunny, the landscape. look down at the streer behind you, see all the details and the little cars and people waking there, the noises. Then with eyes closed give a step forward imagining you will JUMP from the building. Notice what emotions arise. Anything that arises.
Denise Ra i feel tension in my whole body and fear at JUMP
Diana Martínez take your time
Denise Ra my body is protecting itself from perceived danger, yes
Denise Ra trying to make itself small by tightening up
Diana Martínez Are you really jumping from a tall building?
Denise Ra no, not really jumping. and if the 'i" disappears, not hurting the body in any way
Diana Martínez Exactly, could your body tell the difference at all between a real or an imagined jump?
Denise Ra nope
Diana Martínez can you see why it is not easy to let go of the idea of an i?
Denise Ra YES!
Denise Ra i don't think of the body as controlling "me" but apparently it has a big say in my experience of life
Diana Martínez Very good!!
Denise Ra right now i am talking to it and telling it i appreciate it
Diana Martínez what is really being protected?
Denise Ra the body is protecting "me" from hurt both physical and emotional
Diana Martínez what is this that is being protected?
Denise Ra i know me is just a concept but apparently the body thinks it's real
Diana Martínez Tell your body it is not endangered, what comes up?
Denise Ra it relaxes a tiny bit. i see a picture in my head of superman saying "i'll protect you"
Denise Ra i've always startled easily. my body is perhaps overly protective.
Diana Martínez Is there something important really being threatened?
Denise Ra body is not really in danger if there is no "i"
Diana Martínez Exactly!! There is a body there, Are YOU a body? do YOU have a body?
Denise Ra body is just an animal?
Diana Martínez body just is
Diana Martínez does the aliveness of body indicates a separate i or only that it is alive?
Diana Martínez feel the body now.
Denise Ra body is relaxing some.
Diana Martínez At this moment it is not reacting to unreal threats
Denise Ra most animals don't have an "i" so this body does not need an "i" to exist
Diana Martínez Exactly!!
Diana Martínez Do you still feel that body equals "i" or have an "i", do you feel that we need to continue with this point or are you ready for the next part?
Denise Ra i see how the body is. i'm ready for next part.
Diana Martínez We can continue tomorrow, it is late now.
Diana Martínez keep practicing the jump exercise through the day.
Denise Ra yes, i will
Diana Martínez And observe your body when you think there is no i
Denise Ra ah yes.
10 JUNE AT 12:39
Diana Martínez Hi Denise, good morning. Could you practice the exercises again? did you notice anything else?
Denise Ra with food, water and air?
Diana Martínez any you have practiced yesterday after we talked
Denise Ra well, i noticed my body when i read the sentence "there is no i", there was no reaction in my body.
Diana Martínez good!
Diana Martínez Now you said also that you felt that you have a life, could you explain more about it?
Denise Ra owning this life? makes me think of khalil gibran "your children are not your children, they are life's longing for itself".
Denise Ra i can kind of see that if i apply it to myself
Diana Martínez what makes life your life? do everything has a life of it's own.
Denise Ra i live it.
Denise Ra i experience it.
Diana Martínez every cell in the body is alive and apparently moves independently, if you look at a microscope you would see that, your body is made of them, could cells be considered separate selves?
Denise Ra yes
Denise Ra they just happen to be part of a larger organism
Denise Ra same with parts of cells
Diana Martínez are they really separate and independent?
Denise Ra my solar plexus has noticed this conversation. cells are separate from each other and part of the whole. interconnected.
Diana Martínez what make the division of where a separate life begins and where it ends?
Diana Martínez can you find it somewhere else than in thoughts?
Denise Ra no one really knows. i dont' know. cells are individuals. you can take them out of the body and put them in a dish and culture them.
Denise Ra we eat food from the ground. we grow. we die and go back to the ground. food grows. more people are born and die. in that way we don't seem separate.
Diana Martínez This point is closely related to observing the body, We have already seen that the skin is not a barrier as solid as it seems and that water, food, air, pass in and out the apparent separation of inside and outside. And that the body is not permanent or fixed.
Diana Martínez Exactly, is the line between life really clear? what happen when we die, other tiny organisms feed un us and life continues, we eat food that once were alive.
Denise Ra people are like waves in the ocean, they arise, then go back to the ocean
Diana Martínez the elements of life change form and pass from one place to the other, then is the line between the life of this body and the lettuce you eat clear?
Denise Ra the line is not clear. it seems clear if i look at an oak tree which is something i do not eat.
Denise Ra but, the oak tree puts out oxygen and i breathe oxygen in
Diana Martínez if a human body is buried under the oak tree, wouldn't the tree be "eating" it. all nutrients and proteins can be re used.
Denise Ra yes, it's true. so we become part of the oak tree.
Diana Martínez yes, the breath can take the air from the tree.
Diana Martínez if you see life considering the proteins, the vitamins, the nutrients, can you see they last longer than just the life of a single body?
Denise Ra yes, that is easy to see
Diana Martínez Can you notice the complex interconections in life?
Denise Ra if you mean with bodies and the building blocks of bodies, yes
Denise Ra and with plants and soil and air too
Diana Martínez can anything exist separate from "the outside"?
Diana Martínez Can life happen isolated?
Denise Ra nope
Denise Ra nope
Diana Martínez Then where are those limits? couldn't they be just labels or thought content?
Denise Ra so there is no separation of body from Life expressing. so the belief in "i" is just a thought.
Diana Martínez can you see this clearly now?
Denise Ra yes, i think so. i'm just not used to seeing it in the context of having or not having an "i"
Diana Martínez having or not having an i are concepts too, there is no use to just take a new concept, the important thing is to look at WHAT IS directly, beyond the concepts of it.
Denise Ra so is should look at this knowingness of not being separate?
Diana Martínez look if you are taking the concept only (the content of thought) or if you are directly seeing that there is no separate self.
Diana Martínez do another walk in the park or in nature, just
observe how life happens, so you don't just accept this because i say it
11 JUNE
Denise Ra i walked last night after dark. i wish i felt more not separate from nature
Diana Martínez what makes you feel separate?
Denise Ra i just think that i could feel more connected.
Diana Martínez why is that needed?
Diana Martínez should you always be able to feel this connection?
Denise Ra it would just be nice
Denise Ra it would be comforting
Diana Martínez As you already mentioned, no state is permanent. There are many things that will change this level of connection. These moments of clarity come and go.
Denise Ra yeah, rats
Denise Ra i'm having a strong emotion of not feeling connected right now
Denise Ra i am observing it in DE, lol
Diana Martínez how does this feel like?
Denise Ra it feels like self-pity
Diana Martínez was this feeling a reaction to a thought?
Denise Ra definitely, the thought of being separate and wishing to be less so
Diana Martínez a thought tell you that you are separate and wish to be less separate. then a corresponding emotion shows up.
Denise Ra yes, i don't think i've ever seen the connection so clearly before!
Denise Ra i'm so grateful for you diana!
Diana Martínez Do you think that you are separate now but this can change in the future. It hasn't change and you feel it shouldn't be like that, The reality of being or not separated will not change as a result of this investigation.
Diana Martínez Reality is as it is already. but an illusion is covering it.
Diana Martínez thanks for your comment Denise, I feel very glad to be able to help
Denise Ra the feeling of separation has come and gone all my life. you are saying that will continue to be the case-ok, i can live with that especially now that i know how to observe the connection between thoughts and emotions in DE
Diana Martínez yes, even after the gate many report to feel like a self again, but they later remember what they saw and that can't be undone
Diana Martínez as long as you are able to remind this again and look again it is fine.
Denise Ra good.
Diana Martínez Feeling as a separate self can be very convincing. As convincing as thinking that these circles are moving.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/.../s400/Optical-illusion.jpg
3.bp.blogspot.com
3.bp.blogspot.com
Diana Martínez Open the link to see the circles in a larger picture, look at them closely, are they moving?
Denise Ra no, but they do seem to move a bit
Diana Martínez exactly!
Diana Martínez how can the brain create the illusion that they are moving if they are not? Could the "i" be some kind of complex mind trick too?
Denise Ra yes
Diana Martínez What are you still waiting to happen that has not happened yet for you to know that you have seen through the illusion of self?
Diana Martínez For example: ____ has not happened yet, so this means that i haven't seen this yet.
Denise Ra to KNOW something, to FEEL different, to SEE clearly
Denise Ra ...most of the time
Diana Martínez how do you expect to feel? what does it mean for you to see this clearly?
Denise Ra i expect there to be at least a bit of an 'aha'. i expect to see my behavior and the behavior of people around me more clearly. i expect to literally See more clearly as though a veil has been removed.
Denise Ra i expect to KNOW that i am not separate.
Diana Martínez have you found this separation somewhere that is not a thought about it or a feeling reacting to the content of thought? have you found the "i" that you have been looking for in this investigation?
Denise Ra no i have not found separation that is not a thought or feeling. i have not found the "i" but i also have a lot of difficulty focusing when looking for the "i"
Diana Martínez what do you find when you look for it?
Denise Ra my mind always skitters off and i forget what i am looking for. never thought of myself as ADD.
Diana Martínez what is ADD?
Denise Ra attention defecit disorder - inability to focus
Diana Martínez could it be some resistance to look?
Denise Ra probably, there seems to have been lots of resistance to looking already
Diana Martínez try to contact this resistence
Denise Ra ok
Denise Ra i'm not finding it right now
Diana Martínez the resistance or the i?
Denise Ra either one
Denise Ra all i find is some tightness in my heart and solar plexus
Diana Martínez notice if that tightness comes from resistance.
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez this resistance may not come in a verbal form
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez is the tightness uncomfortable, painful, can you find any stress?
Denise Ra it is uncomfortable and sometimes during our conversations it spreads and becomes painful
Diana Martínez is it similar to that feeling of danger of the jumping from the building exercise or different?
Denise Ra i'm not sure right now
Diana Martínez ok
Diana Martínez Do you still feel that the body is a YOU, that you have a life or that YOU have a body?
Denise Ra i don't think about it a lot. i'm usually on automatic pilot just living life. when i think on it in the context of this conversation i don't think that the body is ME. i understand intellectually that LIFE is living this body.
Diana Martínez you said " i expect to see my behavior and the behavior of people around me more clearly" It is unpredictable what happens after the gate, everytime is different, this could or could not happen.
Diana Martínez this can not be taken as an indicator that you have seen
Denise Ra darn. what about seeing or knowing that others are not "other"?
Diana Martínez this could or not be experienced but what has to be seen is that there is no you anywhere
Diana Martínez can you direclty experience "others" or is that just a thought?
Denise Ra i seem to experience others, especially when i don't like them or their behavior
Diana Martínez you seem to, but can you be sure about it?
Denise Ra nope can't be sure.
Diana Martínez You said. "i expect to literally See more clearly as though a veil has been removed." What if the veil was not removed, but that the wind blows it away from time to time and you can see through it. Would that be a problem? if the veil keeps tricking you often, would that mean you didn't SEE?
Denise Ra that would be fine, to have gained occasional sight is better than to have gained none
Diana Martínez What if occasional sight is all you can get at this point, from this investigation. would you be fine with that.would you stop worryng about not seeing this more often?
Denise Ra maybe yes, but why do i only get to kind of see and others get to SEE?
Diana Martínez who gets to SEE? who sees this constantly?
Diana Martínez do you know other people who sees this constantly?
Denise Ra some on the website seem to
Denise Ra what about you? do you see more often than not?
Diana Martínez I saw through the illusion of separate self, and even after that I don't experience this constantly. Many other guides say the same.
Diana Martínez but I often get reminders of what was seen and there is no going back to totally believing that trick.
Denise Ra this has been a lot of work for both you and i. seems it ought have got me further.
Diana Martínez how do you know that, is that a thought telling you that?
Denise Ra it's a formula - work in, results out
Diana Martínez if the results are not the ones you expected, does it mean there were no results?
Denise Ra on no, there have definitely been results that i greatly appreciate. i'm thinking of Lisa's videos and comparing my result to that.
Diana Martínez All this is about is a change of perspective. Seeing through an illusion to directly know something that a false perspective hides from you. Some changes will happen but they are unpredictable, that is why expecting specific results will end in frustration and thinking that something is wrong.
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez All that matters here is to directly find out the truth about the "i" Not intellectually but really know it.
Diana Martínez Are there any other expectations that you have found out but not mentioned here?
Denise Ra none come to mind now
Diana Martínez when you find any, bring them here.
Denise Ra ok i will
Diana Martínez what feelings do you get when i say all this about expectations?
Denise Ra it takes some pressure off. i feel ready to "practice" what i have learned here.
Diana Martínez That's great!
Denise Ra i feel that with time this will all sink in more
Diana Martínez were you feeling pressure of fullfilling these expectations? That if they didn't happen something was wrong?
Denise Ra not wrong, but not finished yet if they didn't happen
Denise Ra also, i wanted to be able to help others see and i don't think that is going to go very well
Diana Martínez All you have to focus in is this: All that matters here is to directly find out the truth about the "i" Not intellectually but really know it (even if the realization comes an go)
Denise Ra and i'm sad about that
Denise Ra sad about not being able to help others
Diana Martínez how do you know it won't go well? that you won't be able to help others?
Denise Ra because i barely see it
Diana Martínez That's what we're here for
Denise Ra what?
Diana Martínez seeing through the illusion
Denise Ra so what now?
Diana Martínez As i see it, it is advancing, you may get a different impression, mainly because of expectations.
Denise Ra i definitely feel that i have advanced
Denise Ra due to this conversation we have been having
Diana Martínez you will see this, we're taking the obstacles away.
Diana Martínez it is important that you are aware of having these expectations, that was a big step today
Denise Ra i'm thinking you are kicking me out. are you?
Diana Martínez Not at all
Denise Ra o good. you did find more expectations that i was not really aware of.
Diana Martínez As I already told you, I will stay here to guide as long as you need
Denise Ra thank you
Diana Martínez No problem
Diana Martínez I have to go now, but please try to look if you find more expectations about this before our next chat.
Denise Ra yes i definitely will.
13 JUNE
Diana Martínez Hi Denise, could you find any new expectations?
Denise Ra "what are you still waiting to happen that has not happened yet for you to know that you have seen through the illusion of self?"
"how do you expect to feel?"
i will actually See differently, as if a literal veil has been removed.
i will Know that i have seen through the illusion of separation.
i will feel oneness/unity consciousness at least for a little while.
there will be an 'aha'.
i will laugh at how simple it is.
i will truly Know that there is no "i" here.
i will see what my Path should be or not care about having a Path.
i will feel sure of what i have seen.
i will have no problem answering the 6 questions.
Diana Martínez how would you describe this aha moment you are waiting for?
Denise Ra a lightbulb going on over my head realization moment
Denise Ra where i get it not just have belief about it
Diana Martínez ok
Diana Martínez can you tell me more about the path? Are you sure that you will have no doubts about it after seeing? Why?
Denise Ra maybe a Path but also maybe just a shaking out of some things that do not serve me.maybe more of a shedding if you will. i don't think that doubts will all go away.
Diana Martínez what separates your path from the paths of others?
Denise Ra i have to come back to the body on this one. this body will do things.
Diana Martínez for example in the relation with your friends or familiy. can you see how the paths interconnect?
Denise Ra i see how paths and lives interconnect and how that also can change
Diana Martínez Then you can see how many people participate in the situations of "your life"?
Denise Ra yes
Diana Martínez what makes this life "your" life?
Diana Martínez what is it that owns a life?
Denise Ra all-that-is creates life, does it own this life? i don't own this life and didn't ask for it but have become rather attached to what happens to it.
Diana Martínez how does this attachment shows up? as what?
Denise Ra before this inquiry began it showed up as a belief in controlling this life. now it shows up as riding the waves of what comes and hoping for best outcomes
Denise Ra best being what "i" want.
Diana Martínez what wants? how does this wanting shows up?
Denise Ra I, me, I want. and if it's not me then it's life or ego. it shows up as occasional attempts to manipulate(control) situations to my advantage.
Diana Martínez Can you find something wanting to control or only a thought about wanting to control?
Denise Ra i find a thought that says "i want to control"
Denise Ra wow, you mean there is not an "i" there, there is just a thought that says "i want"?
Denise Ra i've been believing the thought that speaks of an "i"
Diana Martínez exactly!
Diana Martínez can thoughts do something, can thoughts have will and make decisions, or do they just happen?
Denise Ra holy cow
Denise Ra thoughts happen. there is no action in thought. actions are available. sometimes some of them get done and sometimes they don't.
Diana Martínez can thoughts make your arm move? control your heart rate? make your emotions change? control anything? or do they just pop up when they do?
Denise Ra thoughts cannot make my arm move - i know this from trying it. but sometimes there is a thought and then an emotion arises like we talked about the other day.
Diana Martínez Do you remember what we talked about emotions related to the thoughts?Those that react to a thought? Observe the thought related emotions about an "i" in direct experience, as we have done with thoughts.
Denise Ra ok, this will take a few minutes
Diana Martínez ok, I will be here
Denise Ra there seems always to be emotion around the "i" thought
Diana Martínez what emotions do you find now?
Denise Ra i can't name the emotion but it is strong and brings tears
Denise Ra tension?release?
Diana Martínez both at the same time, tension and release?
Denise Ra emotionally it feels like release. physically i feel tension.
Diana Martínez well observed
Diana Martínez try to find what causes this tension
Denise Ra
Denise Ra both emotion and tension come from the area of my heart. i can't pinpoint the cause of the tension
Diana Martínez ok, it is more like a raw emotion, even if you can't pinpoint or describe keep observing it.
Diana Martínez you are succesfully observing at it behind thoughts about it
Denise Ra the emotion is gone, just the tension remains
Denise Ra next time the emotion arises i will 0bserve in DE
Diana Martínez yes, please do.
Denise Ra i will also be observing that "i" thought
14 JUNE
Diana Martínez Hi Denise, could you observe these"i" thoughts?
Denise Ra some yes. today i am observing in DE emotions related to "i" thoughts. very powerful these "i thought emotions
Diana Martínez how did that go? can you describe it?
Denise Ra thoughts. strong emotion. realization that strong emotion is occurring. noticing in DE thoughts and emotions related to "me". emotions& thoughts continue to occur. sitting with the uncomfortableness of it all.
Diana Martínez how does this uncomfortableness feels like?
Denise Ra shallow breathing, tightness in neck and upper back. tightness around heart.
Diana Martínez is this "i" a group of uncomfortable feelings and thoughts?
Denise Ra it seems that way this afternoon
Diana Martínez why?
Denise Ra i see the emotions & thoughts in DE. it all triggers old emotion & thought patterns. Why? because i am attached to an outcome
Diana Martínez when you look at these emotions can you see just how they happen, behind their content?
Denise Ra they happen directly in relation to thought.
Diana Martínez Very well observed
Denise Ra thanks
Diana Martínez so if you get an "i thought" you can have an "i emotion" in relation to it
Denise Ra definitely yes
Denise Ra so when i See the "i" thoughts will still come but i will know better than to believe them?
Diana Martínez yes, you may even believe them, but later see through them.
Denise Ra that's what i thought
Diana Martínez can the i thoughts stop?
Denise Ra maybe, but we can't count on that
Diana Martínez language is structured like that, you need language to express thoughts
Denise Ra i was referring to the i thoughts that arise unasked for
Denise Ra with other people, yes we need language
Diana Martínez what asks for them?
Diana Martínez how does that happen? is there something saying which thoughts should come and which don't? or a thought labeling a thought as unwanted thought?
Denise Ra 'UNasked for' i mean thoughts that arise like the ones i don't want in my head today. i don't want crazy thoughts. yes, there is labelling of thoughts with thoughts. no wonder we are so crazy sometimes!
Denise Ra "i" have a preference not to have crazy thoughts. hm, what "i" is this i am speaking of?
Denise Ra is it just more thought? commenting on the previous thought? happening inside of this head. somehow also causing emotion to arise and attach.
Denise Ra all "i" is nothing but thoughts?
Diana Martínez Exactly!! wouldn't "i don't want crazy thoughts" also be another thought labeling the previous one?
Denise Ra yes. LOL
Diana Martínez then let's look deeper... now pick an "i thought" and write it here.
Denise Ra i am sitting on the porch
Diana Martínez What can you find behind the "I" thought? Behind the label "i"? can you find something that is not another thought?
Denise Ra besides butt on chair feeling, it's all thoughts
Diana Martínez is the sensation of the butt touching the chair an i?
Denise Ra no, it's just a sensation
Diana Martínez then where is the i? what is it? where can you find it?
Denise Ra the "i" is only in thought. it's created by thought and emotion.
Diana Martínez have you found it somewhere else that is not a thought or an emotion reacting to an "i thought"?
Denise Ra the "i " thought claims the body as part of itself. but when i remember the exercises we have done i remember that the body is not the "i"
Denise Ra i only find the "i " in thought and emotion. also somehow it is perpetuated by those around us. they believe i have an "i"
Denise Ra it's such a strong belief. vigilance is required to see past it.
Diana Martínez yes it is, it has been believed for a long long time
Diana Martínez what is a belief, is it something else than a thought saying this is true or this is false?
Denise Ra a belief is also very much a habit. it's on automatic. you have to see it in order to see through it.
Diana Martínez yes!!
Denise Ra i can see that Seeing through it might be like peeling an onion. we keep exposing ways in which we think the "i" exists
Diana Martínez yes it is, you have to see this yourself, by peeling all the layers of what you think you are.
Denise Ra yes! i see that.
Diana Martínez when you have an "i" thought, an "i" emotion or a belief in an "i" please look at it as deeply as you did today.
Denise Ra can do!
Diana Martínez each time see if you can find something else behind them that is not an "i thought" or an "i emotion".
Denise Ra yes i will
Diana Martínez do you still have time, can you try it again now
Denise Ra yes
Diana Martínez take your time and reply when you're done.
Denise Ra ok
Denise Ra i have a life. or perhaps i am living a life. what is this i? where is this i? what is living a life? better yet - life is here in this body and there is also awareness of life and living.
Diana Martínez what could you notice?
Denise Ra it was all thought except awareness of the breeze and the leaves moving
Diana Martínez is awareness separate from life? Is there any separation between awareness and the thing it is aware of?
Diana Martínez or is what is aware, awareness and the thing it is aware of one undivided process happening?
Denise Ra something has to be alive to be aware. everything is alive at least at an atomic level. this question is twisting my brain.
Denise Ra what is awareness?
Diana Martínez good question
Diana Martínez is it something separate from anything?
Denise Ra how do i know if there is any separation between awareness and the thing it is aware of?!
Diana Martínez observe it. of course, in direct experience, like with the exercises of the senses. you said "it was all thought except awareness of the breeze and the leaves moving" notice the awareness of the wind, look for the limit between the wind and the awareness of it.
Denise Ra i feel the sensation of wind on skin
Diana Martínez is that the limit of awareness?
Denise Ra i see the wind move the leaves
Diana Martínez keep being aware of the wind, see if you find the limits.
Denise Ra i only find awareness of the wind through this body. wait. the trees also move to the wind and it pushes against the houses and the birds fly with or against it
Denise Ra and the river feels it too
Diana Martínez Are "YOU" aware of the wind?
Diana Martínez is awareness the "i"? is there a "my awareness" , "your awareness", "their awareness", or just awareness?
Denise Ra we, the body and trees and birds and houses and river, are all aware of the wind. are we all the same awareness? i dont' know
Denise Ra how can i know?
Diana Martínez what "you" could have a separate awareness? that is the question.
Diana Martínez what "you" could OWN a separate awareness?
16 JUNE AT 10:59
Denise Ra you asked :" is awareness the "i"? is there a "my awareness" , "your awareness", "their awareness", or just awareness?" i say awareness is not the "i" at all
Denise Ra you also asked " is awareness separate from life? Is there any separation between awareness and the thing it is aware of?" all life must be aware. i don't know if there is separation between awareness and the thing it is aware of.
Diana Martínez ok, so awareness is not the i at all. Can you find any separation? did you find the difference or separation between the awareness of the wind blowing and the wind?
Denise Ra awareness of wind blowing happens at same time wind is blowing.
Diana Martínez can you find a separation in DE?
Denise Ra no
Diana Martínez then what is it that tells you there is a separation?
Denise Ra only thoughts
Diana Martínez what "you" could OWN a separate awareness?
Denise Ra the body? not the i
Diana Martínez does the body OWN a separate awareness?
Diana Martínez how can you know that?
Denise Ra it might HAVE a separate awareness. i'm asking myself, separate from what?
Diana Martínez exactly, separate from what?
Denise Ra other bodies?
Denise Ra how can i know if their bodies awareness is the same as or separate from this bodies?
Diana Martínez how can you know that?
Denise Ra i can't know one way or the other
Diana Martínez no, you can't but you can observe in direct experience if you find a limit between the body and the "outside" is there an outside and an inside?
Denise Ra no as per our exercises of eating, drinking. i have even had sounds pass through this whole body
Diana Martínez if there is no inside and outside then where is the separation of the awareness over here and the awareness over there?
Denise Ra ok you got me! awareness is not separate.
Diana Martínez when you feel the wind try the exercise again.
Denise Ra yes i will
Diana Martínez what would be this i that could have a separate awareness, body, or separate life?
Denise Ra the "i" is false, a thought creation. we are not separate
Diana Martínez what still seems as if there was an i there?
Denise Ra reaction of thought and emotion and the habit of assuming an "i". though once yesterday i did begin to react and then stopped because i realized it was just the "i" talking?
Diana Martínez that's great!
Diana Martínez the "i" talking or the "i" thought?
Denise Ra yes, i thought. it was awkward, stopping mid-react.
Diana Martínez can you describe more about that?
Denise Ra i just gave up the whole train of thought as old business and realized i could just be in the present moment.
Diana Martínez That's great! paying attention to it will be very helpful for this, this can not be solved intellectually as you may have already noticed.
Denise Ra kool
Diana Martínez Keep paying attention to the present moment.
Denise Ra as best i can, yes
Diana Martínez you said "because i realized it was just the "i" talking"can you find an "i" talking?
Denise Ra i only find thoughts that refer to an "i". not an actual "i'
Diana Martínez well observed!
Denise Ra
Denise Ra yay!
Diana Martínez can you see that the "i" thoughts and emotions come and go? if the i was a thought or an emotion it would come and go too. Then how could it do anything in the gaps where the thought is absent??
Denise Ra i see that. absent of "i" thoughts, life goes on
Diana Martínez YES!!
Diana Martínez And you have found the "i" so far only in "i thougts" and "i emotions", right?
Denise Ra true. though "i-ness" as a habit is still on automatic. only when i am consciously noticing thought and emotion do i see the falseness of "i thoughts and emotions"
Diana Martínez are "you" a habit?
Denise Ra the "i" is a habit. this body has patterns and habits also.
Denise Ra to better say it - reacting to life as if there is an "i" is a habit.
Diana Martínez yes!
Diana Martínez there is a body, there are patterns an habits.
Diana Martínez there is also life.
Denise Ra yes
Diana Martínez do you remember the example of the university?
Denise Ra yes.
Diana Martínez there is habits, body, life, thought, patterns, does this build an "i"?
Denise Ra nope
Diana Martínez ok, I have to go. For today stay stay only with this question: Where or what is this "i" that we're looking for?
17 JUNE
Denise Ra i woke up this morning and looked for the "i" that had one too many glasses of wine last night. i don't find it. the "i" seems more real when i want something or have desires.
Diana Martínez interesting, so you found some specifi thoughts (wanting and desires) that make this "i" feel stronger. well observed!
Diana Martínez give me an example of some thought about wanting something
Denise Ra i want my missing package to arrive now.
Diana Martínez ok, observe this thought, can you find something that wants this?
Diana Martínez take your time
Denise Ra i'm not finding a solid "i" that wants this. i find more of an amorphous need for the package to show up and play it's part in getting the garden plantable. like the package has a place in events and will fill the hole in a plan when it arrives.
Diana Martínez Ok, is it the same with desires?
Diana Martínez (Look at that too) what desires?
Denise Ra i don't know where desires come from. they seem similar to thoughts. they come and go and some are just temporary and silly and some are more permanent and familiar. i think they can hook me like thoughts do also, i can get sucked in and there is an emotional component that arises also.
Diana Martínez could wanting and desires be the i?
Denise Ra no i really think they are more like thoughts. they just arise. and sometimes we believe them and get attached to them.
Diana Martínez can you notice how thoughts, emotions, desires, i thoughts, are all impermanent? How they come and go?
Denise Ra o yes!
Diana Martínez could something that is not permanent be the controller?
Denise Ra probably not. i'm not sure i believe there IS a controller. if there is, it seems fickle and unreliable.
Diana Martínez then what is this controller? why does it seem that way?
Denise Ra if there is a controller then it must see a much bigger picture than i do. if there is a controller then my life would be better and more consistent. i think we are more like boats on a sea maybe without paddles and the sea doesn't even control where we go, we just have no choice about being on the sea.
Denise Ra that makes sense because "enlightened people" say "it's all good, all of life".that's why they want us to practice equanimity in all situations.
Diana Martínez then do you have any control at all?
Denise Ra o crap - no. even though i want to and hope to and try to.
Diana Martínez what is this wanting for control?
Diana Martínez what wants it?
Denise Ra that's what i'm looking at right now. i will let u know in a few
Denise Ra i think it
Diana Martínez don't look for the answer with thinking.
Denise Ra ok. it is just thoughts and emotions, especially fear, that arise in response to situations that don't fit my view of how things should be. ok - what is this my?
Diana Martínez "my view" isn't this just another thought label?
Denise Ra "my" is just another thought
Diana Martínez exactly!!
Denise Ra yay!
Diana Martínez You said before "that makes sense because "enlightened people" say "it's all good, all of life".that's why they want us to practice equanimity in all situations." let's look at this. Is there something that gets enligthened? or is there something that goes through the gate? what is enlightened people?
Denise Ra enlightened people have experienced that not all thoughts are true, that emotions and desires come and go. they have Seen that "i" is not true.
18 JUNE
Denise Ra being "enlightened" is being aware of these things i'm becoming aware of
Denise Ra the gateless gate is a metaphor for being aware that we are not "our" thoughts, emotions, desires
Diana Martínez is there a "you" that goes through the gate, is there a "you" that becomes aware of something? is there a "you" that "gets enlightened"???
Denise Ra no, hahaha.
Diana Martínez is there a you separate from "other people"?
Denise Ra no, because there is no me
Diana Martínez are you looking at this directly?
Denise Ra yes and still laughing
Diana Martínez hehehe
Diana Martínez laughter is always a good sign in this. hehe
Denise Ra good signs are nice
Diana Martínez Hello Denise, could you do any of the exercises?
Denise Ra yes, would you like me to post them?
Diana Martínez Yes, only the ones you had time to look at.
Denise Ra Let’s try an exercise, no hurry… do it when you have time. Walks in nature or going outdoors can be really helpful. Even a park could work for doing it if going out of town is difficult. Just go and see how everything happens. Notice your breath, the trees, people walking by and report about it here when you do, You can try it once or more times during this investigation. As i mentioned before, we’re not trying to make any state permanent, only to observe.
everything just happens. no controlling, no thinking necessary for people playing, trees moving , wind blowing, breathing. lots of stuff happening naturally.
.......................
I got more exercises for you, try them and tell me what you observe.
º get up… walk slowly…
is there a controller that controls walking? is there just walking? How does walking happens?
the body gets up and walks. maybe there is a thought that says "i need to go do something." the body know how to walk, no controller is necessary.
............................
º Try looking at the moment you wake up in the morning, how does this happen? Is a YOU needed for that to happen? For the eyes to open? to choose the moment when you stand and get out of bed?
all of a sudden there is wakefulness. no "me" is needed to wake me up. how could that work- i would have to be awake to wake myself up - silly. when thoughts are quiet, the body gets up when it wants. sometimes thoughts arise and the body responds by getting up and sometimes it doesn't........................
A complex decision is perfect for looking. Look even closer at the experience of choosing. Not what you think about it or suppose it is, but what is actually there. Break it down, step by step and look what is this decision made of.
To do this take an specific example, it could be to quit or not to quit or any other complex situation. What happened there? You have observed walking in another exercise, describe in detail the process that happened between considering two alternatives and Look for the thoughts, emotions, physical sensations (if any) and so on until the decision is taken.
See if you can find the exact moment when one option is taken and the other discarded. Look if you can find any decider? Could you locate it? Where? When?
do i get up and get the clothes out of the dryer? - thought
body is typing - action
or do i let them get wrinkled and finish what i am writing? - thought
they will be okay, it's only t-shirts - thought where option is chosen
i want to finish what i am writing - thought
body is relaxed - sensation
dryer buzzer rings again and aggravation is felt - emotion
there was a thought that "gave permission" to not get up and check the clothes. so the body continued typing. there was was not a decider, just a flow of thoughts, emotions and actions.
.........................
As I promised I have another exercise for you to dig deeper
For this you’ll only need 20 minutes, a pen & paper.
For the first 10 minutes write what you are experiencing get right to the point, no past or future, just plain description of here and now. watch for any reaction or sensation in the body, for example sensations of tightening or relaxing. You’ll be using the words like, i me, my to describe…
For example:
I am listening to music, i am thinking, i am looking through my window.
Then for the next 10 minutes write without the words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs, just like this:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain. Again watch what is happening in the body as you did in the first part.
Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it? What can you observe about language?
"i am" language creates a sense of I-ness. when not using "i am" it is easier to notice that life happens and no "i" is necessary. labels affect our experiences. our use of prepositions - he, she , they, we - contributes to a false sense of separation. using "i" creates a thought barrier between Direct Experience and the supposed "i".
Look for a mirror and stand in front of it, look at the body, where in the body is this “i” attached or located? Is it located in all the body or in one specific part? In the hands, the liver, the kidneys, behind the eyes? Where? Can you experience a separated "i" inside the body? If you lose a limb, do you also lose some of this "i"? Tell me what you find.
the body is just a body. the "i" is "created" in thoughts but does not really exist.
Diana Martínez Ok, that's a long list, start writing only what you observed after doing the first one
Denise Ra at the park things are just happening, life is happening, flowing through people and dogs and trees, naturally.
Diana Martínez Did you do this exercise yesterday?
Denise Ra yes
Diana Martínez Great, what else could you observe?
Denise Ra everything just happens. no controlling, no thinking necessary for people playing, trees moving , wind blowing, breathing. lots of stuff happening naturally.
Diana Martínez could you find any separation?
Denise Ra life was flowing through everything and everyone. i did see other people.
Diana Martínez yes, you saw them. Did this generated a feeling of separation?
Denise Ra not at all. i wasn't in my head at all, i was just Being at the park and everything seemed just right
Diana Martínez could you notice the difference between the first time you did the exercise and this one?
Denise Ra yes the first time i was doing a lot of efforting to See and feel not separate, LOL. this time i was At the park
Diana Martínez and not in your thoughts so much, right?
Denise Ra yes true
Diana Martínez now tell me about the next exercise
Denise Ra "º get up… walk slowly…
is there a controller that controls walking? is there just walking? How does walking happens? "
the body gets up and walks. maybe there is a thought that says "i need to go do something." the body know how to walk, no controller is necessary.
Diana Martínez what could you observe here?
Denise Ra no controller is there or needed. the body walks.
Diana Martínez why does it seem to be a controller when not looking closely?
Denise Ra that's just a habit of thinking and believing that we control everything
Diana Martínez was it different to do the exercise now and when you did it before?
Denise Ra yes, before i really had to look hard to notice that first there is action, then thought claiming the action. now, i see the gap much more easily between action and thought
Diana Martínez well observed!!
Diana Martínez ok, let's continue with the next one
Denise Ra Try looking at the moment you wake up in the morning, how does this happen? Is a YOU needed for that to happen? For the eyes to open? to choose the moment when you stand and get out of bed?
Denise Ra either gradually or all of a sudden there is wakefulness. no "me" is needed to wake me up. how could that work- i would have to be awake to wake myself up - silly. when thoughts are quiet, the body gets up when it wants. sometimes thoughts arise and the body responds by getting up and sometimes it doesn't.
Diana Martínez is it easier or more difficult to look for the "i" when you are just waking up?
Denise Ra easier on days when thoughts don't start yacking right away
Diana Martínez oh, interesting. Can you notice the relation between the quantity of thoughts when you wake up and the difficulty of looking for the "i"?
Denise Ra o yes! more thoughts=less easy to look
Diana Martínez Keep trying this on mornings when you wake up, as often as you remember to.
Denise Ra ok
Diana Martínez can you notice if the limits are less clear on those days when none or only a few thoughts arise in the morning?
Denise Ra limits?
Diana Martínez limits between "you" and the rest.
Denise Ra i can't say i have noticed. i will look in future.
Diana Martínez ok
Diana Martínez ...then let's continue with the next one.
Denise Ra "A complex decision is perfect for looking. Look even closer at the experience of choosing. Not what you think about it or suppose it is, but what is actually there. Break it down, step by step and look what is this decision made of.
To do this take anspecific example, it could be to quit or not to quit or any other complex situation. What happened there? You have observed walking in another exercise, describe in detail the process that happened between considering two alternatives and Look for the thoughts, emotions, physical sensations (if any) and so on until the decision is taken.
See if you can find the exact moment when one option is taken and the other discarded. Look if you can find any decider? Could you locate it? Where? When?"
Diana Martínez did you did this with a new example yesterday? to have fresh information.
Denise Ra do i get up and get the clothes out of the dryer? - thought
body is typing - action
or do i let them get wrinkled and finish what i am writing? - though
they will be okay, it's only t-shirts - thought where option is chosen
i want to finish what i am writing - thought
body is relaxed - sensation
dryer buzzer rings again and aggravation is felt - emotion
there was a thought that "gave permission" to not get up and check the clothes. so the body continued typing. there was was not a decider, just a flow of thoughts, emotions and actions.
Denise Ra yes
Diana Martínez I can see how the observing of it sounds different than the first time. Was it more clear how "decisions" happen?
Denise Ra more clear but not crystal clear. it still seems as if i decided not to get the clothes
Diana Martínez why? what makes it look that way?
Denise Ra "they will be okay, it's only t-shirts" that thought was believed and so i didn't get up. it seems like i chose to believe that thought
Diana Martínez Look behind the thought "i chose to believe that thought" what can you find?
Denise Ra it is thought that tells me i chose.
Diana Martínez can you find something behind it?
Diana Martínez can you find the chooser that the thought refers to?
Denise Ra it's murky. the thought was believed.something believed it.
Denise Ra perhaps the body, as it did not get up
Denise Ra so, the body can believe or ignore thoughts
Denise Ra that is definitely tru
Denise Ra true
Denise Ra but about the laundry? really?
Diana Martínez How do "believing" a thought works? what believes it? did the body choose to believe it?
Denise Ra yes, the body is very powerful. it stays in bed when thoughts say get up.
Denise Ra the body chooses all the time. maybe regardless of whether the thought said "get up" the body would get up or not as it wants
Diana Martínez is this the body really choosing? or does the impulse to move either happens or not? How do "believing" a thought works?
Denise Ra " or does the impulse to move either happens or not?" isn't that a choice?
Denise Ra isn't that the body choosing?
Diana Martínez can you observe that in direct experience or is there just another thought telling you it happens like this?
Denise Ra in DE the body responds or not.
Denise Ra so, the body does not choose to respond? it just responds?
Denise Ra this is maybe just language not being precise problem on my end here
Denise Ra choosing and responding are similar but not so much so when i really look deeper
Diana Martínez "so, the body does not choose to respond? it just responds?" observe directly and find this out.
Denise Ra the body does what it wants. choosing is a thought process. the body does not think, it only acts. it only responds - yes
Diana Martínez then can you notice the difference between choosing and responding when you look in DE?
Denise Ra thought says "i choose". the body does not need thought to act or respond.
Diana Martínez Yes!! that's it.
Diana Martínez then, is there a chooser?
Diana Martínez or a thought saying there is one?
Denise Ra no, just a train of thought, emotion, action. thought can definitely say "i chose" but that doesn't make it true.
Diana Martínez YES!!
Diana Martínez well observed
Diana Martínez do thoughts think?
Denise Ra no. thoughts just arise.
Diana Martínez do they choose?
Denise Ra no. choices get made
Denise Ra a combination of thought, emotion, action
Diana Martínez Ok!!!
Diana Martínez i got time left for checking one more exercise.
Denise Ra "Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it? What can you observe about language?"
Denise Ra "i am" language creates a sense of I-ness. when not using "i am" it is easier to notice that life happens and no "i" is necessary. labels affect our experiences. our use of prepositions - he, she , they, we - contributes to a false sense of separation. using "i" creates a thought barrier between Direct Experience and the supposed "i".
Diana Martínez when looking in direct experience, what can you find behind this "i" used in language?
Denise Ra there is no "i". things are happening. sometimes thought claims responsibility by using an "i" thought
Diana Martínez what difference do you find between now and the first time you did this exercise?
Denise Ra it is easier to see thoughts in DE and not get sucked into their content
Diana Martínez Read this phrase and notice what comes up...
What would happen if the belief in this i was released, if it was dropped.
Denise Ra nothing would change except knowing that not all thoughts are true
Diana Martínez do you notice any body reaction or emotion to this?
Denise Ra nope
Diana Martínez any resistance to the release of this belief?
Denise Ra nope, i'm cool with it. probably i will continue to find other places where the "i" belief resides and or pops up but i'm pretty sure i can deal with that.
Diana Martínez Then remember to keep practicing the exercises while you travel. specially the one of looking for the i in the morning.after waking up.
Denise Ra yes i will. thanks diana!
Pienso y luego (creo que) existo.
I think, therefore (i believe that) i am.
