my intellectual understanding isn't liberation

[bluzulu]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
an uncaused cause, such as some kind of independent self that can cause thought neurons to fire, makes no sense

What are you looking for at LU?
move from intellectual, logic and evidence understanding to a full-fledged self/world view that 1] this whole thing is happening by itself 2] that there is nothing separate including thoughts, urges, impulses, habits, actions or sensory perceptions, and 3] that shame and blame make no sense (who/what exactly would be to blame?)

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
questions and experiments that will provide genuine experiences to move intellectual understanding of the above to the living experience. peaceful acceptance that what is cannot possibly be different from the way it is, and the future will be what it will be. trust in my neocortex to provide better guidance when attention is not distracted by thoughts.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
years of classes, books, a/v, neuroscience

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Sam Harris is a neuroscientist who has seen there is no self. His books, "Waking Up" and "Free Will" are excellent if you want a neuroscientific perspective.


Loving,

[bluzulu]

Hi Stacy, and thanks.
Glad you recommended Sam Harris and a neuropsych perspective; that’s a language I speak.

How will life change?

As it will.

How will you change?

‘I’ will change as ‘life’ does

What will be different?

No more desires for things to be different than they are?
Complete peace with the fact that what is is, and what will be will be?
Less distraction by thought?

What is missing?

Missing isn’t the problem. The problem seems to be what seems to be but cannot be😊

Cheers,
Pablo

[Anastacia42]

Hi Pablo,

Your expectations are pretty reasonable

Sam also has an app called, "Waking Up," if you're interested. He hosts other teachers & does podcasts. I'd start with the book.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[bluzulu]

All that comes up is pure agreement. I have long been absolutely convinced that is true.

[Anastacia42]

Great.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[bluzulu]

very clear. except for thoughts, none of those ever-changing sensory experiences are about something else, they are just the actual present moment happening. thoughts about them, or about past or future, are mostly irrelevant brain activity that sure can attract a lot of attention.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, excellent.

Now, let's practice:



Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[bluzulu]

Yes, clear.

[bluzulu]

yes, this 'feels' important.
will continue and report.

[Anastacia42]

Important is not a feel8ng.

Check. What is it?

These are your choices.

Direct or Actual Experiences

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Loving,

[bluzulu]

all direct experience.

yes, i know 'important' is a concept.

terming sensations as just sensations, vs cold, discomfort, etc. does change the experience. interesting.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Here is the first pointer to practice this:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[bluzulu]

All the different kinds of feelings in my stomach and head that I had been labeling uncomfortable or fuzzy (I have a cold) simply = sensations

colors and shapes of the computer, video screen room simply =images and colors

waking up taste in my mouth that had been labelled unpleasant simply = taste

traffic = simply sound

pressure of arms on desk, butt in chair, feet on floor simply= sensations

air temperature simply = sensation

[Anastacia42]

Those are good. Normally, I'd ask for several more, but let's move on.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,