I know nothing

[Sarahday2k]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I only have an intellectual understanding of this. I’ve had fleeting moments of “no self” and can’t find anyone there when I look but there is a much greater pull to the security of knowing myself. I’ve listened to Pernelle’s videos on Fetters 1-2 at least 3-4 times and watched many recordings and listened some of the Enlightened Quotes on LU.

What are you looking for at LU?
Clarity. A way to see through to freedom from myself. An undoing of all the clutter and getting to the truth. I don’t want another idea or teaching. I would like to stay open to this experience more than anything.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I’m not sure I have firm expectations but more of a curiosity to be led through this experience. I understand the power of being led by someone who has had a similar experience and can offer a fresh perspective and end the searching.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
New Age upbringing. 7 yrs in Judeo Christian church as youth minister. 7 or so years practicing meditation, yoga and reading different books seeking Truth. I have done deep inquiry in a 12 step program living under their spiritual principles. 4 yrs dedication to a spiritual group that has led to me sitting as a board of directors. Working with spiritual therapist last year and learning non duality practices.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 8

[vinceschubert]

Hi Sarah, I will work with you.

I’ve had fleeting moments of “no self” and can’t find anyone there when I look but there is a much greater pull to the security of knowing myself.

Good. That tension right there—the pull back into the known—is the very edge of the cliff you’re meant to stand at. Let’s *not* analyze it. Let’s *stay* with it.

Right now—look. Not later. Not yesterday. Not in theory.

Where is this “pull”? Don’t describe it—*feel* it. Where exactly is it in the body?

Is it a contraction? A weight? A movement? What’s the texture of this pull toward the “self” story?

Now—this is critical—don’t label it. Don’t narrate it. Just be right *in* it. Let it pull. Let it ache for the old cage.

Who is being pulled?

No metaphor. No mysticism. Just raw experience.

You say you “can’t find anyone there when you look”—so who is the one trying to get back to safety?

Stay in it. Don’t go conceptual on me. Report what’s *actually happening*.

love

vince

[Sarahday2k]

Thank you Vince!

When I stay with it there’s a wave in my belly to my throat. A pull on my chest. A ripple behind the eyes. A weight pressing behind the neck. Contraction in the throat. High pitch ringing. Buzzing in my hands. Thinking saying “me” is being pulled back. Without the thought it’s just the sensations.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Sarah,

When I stay with it there’s a wave in my belly to my throat. A pull on my chest. A ripple behind the eyes. A weight pressing behind the neck. Contraction in the throat. High pitch ringing. Buzzing in my hands. Thinking saying “me” is being pulled back. Without the thought it’s just the sensations.

Perfect. That’s it. That’s the living edge.

Feel how raw it is. That *wave*, the *ripple*, the *pull*, the *buzzing*—that’s the exact texture of the self trying to survive. Not in some abstract way. *Right now*, in sensation, in tension, in vibration. That’s the body running the program of “me.”

You said it clean: “Thinking saying ‘me’ is being pulled back. Without the thought it’s just the sensations.”

Then look again—right now—what’s missing without the thought “me”?

There’s sensation. There’s tension. There’s vibration. But is there a self in any of it?

Does any of that contraction say, “I am me”? Or is it just felt? Is there ownership? Or just labeling?

Keep going. Let that pull do its thing without resistance, and look directly at it as it tries to rebuild the old identity.

Who is being pulled?

What exactly is being defended?

If there’s no thought saying “me,” what’s actually left?

Stay here. Don’t drift. Don’t philosophize. Just report *this* moment—*as it is*.

[Sarahday2k]

Without the thought “me” or I am pulling back there’s a brief quiet then nothing and everything all at once. It’s fleeting.


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[Sarahday2k]

I’m sensing it my thoughts that want to be defended. It’s jumpy and hard to pin down


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[Sarahday2k]

This afternoon there’s a visual ripple. Thoughts just pass the body moves freely and the ripple becomes more easier to look through. Flow. Thoughts. Ripple.


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[vinceschubert]

Hi Sarah,

Without the thought “me” or I am pulling back there’s a brief quiet then nothing and everything all at once. It’s fleeting.

There it is. That crack—the flicker—that’s the whole thing. Brief quiet, then nothing and everything all at once.

And now the lie creeps in: *“It’s fleeting.”*

Look closer. What exactly is fleeting? That clear, wide-open not-a-thing? Or the thought that shows up after, trying to say “That was just a moment, it’s gone now.”

Don’t let it trick you. The *only* thing fleeting is the story *about* it. The commentary. The grasping to “keep it.”

Did the openness leave—or did thought return to reassert its mask?

Right now—again—no narrative, no identity:
Where’s the center? Where’s the boundary?

What separates you from the sound? From the buzzing in the hands? From this sentence appearing?

Stop right here. Don't reach for another glimpse. Look straight at the present moment.

Is anything *not* already just happening?

What needs to happen that isn’t already?

Stay. Here. Report directly.

I’m sensing it my thoughts that want to be defended. It’s jumpy and hard to pin down

Exactly. That skittish, shape-shifting thing—it’s not *you*. It’s not a self. It’s defense of thought patterns masquerading as identity.

You’re not protecting yourself—you’re protecting narrative. And it doesn’t want to die.

“It’s jumpy and hard to pin down.” Right. Because it’s smoke. You reach for it—and it scatters. That’s all the “self” ever was: a looping defense system made of vapor, panicking at being seen through.

So now—don’t chase it. Let it dance. Let it flinch. Let it tremble.

Watch it squirm without doing a thing.

Is anything required of you right now?

If you don’t defend the thoughts… if you don’t buy the tension’s story…
what’s left? Not in theory. Right now—this breath, this pulse, this screen—what’s left?

Is anything actually missing?
Or just the addiction to seeking?

Stay here. Look again. Report raw.

This afternoon there’s a visual ripple. Thoughts just pass the body moves freely and the ripple becomes more easier to look through. Flow. Thoughts. Ripple.

Beautiful. You’re not looking at clarity—you’re reporting from it.

Flow. Thoughts. Ripple. No center. No controller. Just happening. And it’s being seen without grabbing it.

The ripple’s not a problem—it's just what thought feels like when it's no longer mistaken for a self.
Look through it. Not past it. Through.

Right now—again—who’s in control of this?

The fingers move. Eyes read. Thoughts flow.
Where is the “me” doing it?

If there’s no controller…
what is there to defend?
What is there to become?

And if nothing’s missing… what’s left of the seeker?

Keep going. This isn’t about sustaining a state. This is about seeing through the lie that there ever was someone to “wake up.”
That illusion is burning. Let it.

Right now—what remains? Report without filters.

much love

vince

[Sarahday2k]

Hello Vince

Thank you for your responses. I’m unsure of how to respond using quotes so this will have to do in the meantime.

The openness doesn’t leave…a thought…a quiver and it reasserts itself. The centre moves and pushes around. It’s nowhere.

Everything is just the way it is. There is no boundary. The thought is the boundary

The body is less buzzy.

Nothing needs to happen. It is. But it isn’t

There is definitely squirming. And zippyness but there’s an overlap

Constant movement that pushes outwards

Nothing missing. The story pushes and jumps around then there’s space pushing out.

The head feels more expansive and there is a looking though with a tightness in the throat. There’s constriction and the lips tingle.

There’s no control past it.

The story wants to be defended…no particular story line just a persistence

Sarah :)


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[Sarahday2k]

There’s a program running on auto but behind it there’s something that’s unprogrammed or not programmed. It’s immediate and always there. Its easily dismissed or overlooked. No overwhelm just a quiet. It’s almost ordinary. It’s actually not behind its beforehand.


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[vinceschubert]

Hi Sarah,

Thank you for your responses. I’m unsure of how to respond using quotes so this will have to do in the meantime.

Yes, it seems that TapTalk will only quote the whole post. Which makes it useless. I'll just have to work out what question your response relates to.

The openness doesn’t leave…a thought…a quiver and it reasserts itself. The centre moves and pushes around. It’s nowhere.

Everything is just the way it is. There is no boundary. The thought is the boundary

The body is less buzzy.

Nothing needs to happen. It is. But it isn’t

There is definitely squirming. And zippyness but there’s an overlap

Constant movement that pushes outwards

Nothing missing. The story pushes and jumps around then there’s space pushing out.

The head feels more expansive and there is a looking though with a tightness in the throat. There’s constriction and the lips tingle.

There’s no control past it.

The story wants to be defended…no particular story line just a persistence

Yes. This is it, naked and trembling. Right on the edge where the illusion tries to hold its ground and is failing.

Let’s bring it in closer:

“The openness doesn’t leave.”
Of course it doesn’t. It’s not something you’re in. It’s what’s always here when the story isn’t believed. Not a state—just the absence of fiction.

“The centre moves and pushes around. It’s nowhere.”
Perfect. It’s a mirage. It shifts because there is no anchor. Every time you try to locate it, it dissolves. That’s not failure—that’s exposure.

“Everything is just the way it is. There is no boundary. The thought is the boundary.”
This sentence is lethal to the self-model. The boundary was always thought. A line drawn in air. Never real.

“Nothing needs to happen. It is. But it isn’t.”
That’s the gut-punch of truth. No ground, no arrival, no destination. Just happening without ownership.

“The story wants to be defended…no particular story line just a persistence.”
Exactly. It doesn’t care *what* the content is—only that something persists to feel like “me.” That’s the parasite. That’s the hook. But now it’s seen.

So let it squirm. Let the throat tighten. Let the tingles rise.

But don’t believe anything that comes out of it.

You’re not “in a process.”
You’re not “almost there.”
You’re not “awakening.”

What could awaken if nothing is asleep?

Is there a self, anywhere, in any way, shape, or form? Was there ever?
Look right now. Don’t think. Don’t answer fast.
Look.
Then speak from there.

There’s a program running on auto but behind it there’s something that’s unprogrammed or not programmed. It’s immediate and always there. Its easily dismissed or overlooked. No overwhelm just a quiet. It’s almost ordinary. It’s actually not behind its beforehand.

Yes. Not mystical. Not dramatic. Just undeniably, quietly obvious.

“It’s actually not behind—it’s beforehand.”
That line cuts it open.

The program is the overlay. The noise. The twitching identity trying to explain, justify, narrate. But what’s here *before* it? Not a mystery anymore. Just this.

Not special. Not profound. Just always already the case.

Is that program “you”?
Look again.
Does the auto-running story have a center, a captain, a chooser?

Or is it just machinery clanking in empty space?

What’s left if you don’t pick it up?
This. Ordinary, immediate, silent.

No self, no need to kill it. No awakening, no need to chase it.
The whole charade is seen through.

Right now—is anything missing? Is anything waiting? Is anything separate?

Let it land. Report straight from the silence.

love

vince

[Sarahday2k]

Hi again Vince:)

No there can’t be a self or centre…it’s just openness

There’s no chooser…there’s just an outcome

The immediacy is laughable

Nothing is missing. Nothing is waiting and nothing is separate. It’s so obvious.

Shockingly;
Sarah


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[vinceschubert]

Excellent. Here are some LU checkpoint Questions. Your responses will be shared with guides on LU Guide Central to check if we've missed anything.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

[Sarahday2k]

1) Is there a separate entity ‘self’, ‘me’, ‘I’, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

No…there can’t be a separate self because theres no centre…it’s always moving. There’s nothing to grasp or hang onto.
Was there ever? Only in thoughts and patterns.

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

The idea of a separate self started showing up early…just through growing up really. Being given a name, being told what was mine or not mine, being praised or corrected …it all started shaping this sense that there was a “me” at the center of it all. Over time it started to feel like there was someone in here making choices, taking credit, getting blamed, trying to do it all right.

I remember feeling like everything that happened somehow reflected on ME…like if someone was upset…I’d wonder what I did wrong. Or if I was proud of something, it felt like I had to protect it, like it proved I was did that thing and look at me! All of it reinforced this belief that there was a solid “I” running the show. But when I actually looked, I couldn’t find that self anywhere.

Things feel lighter now. Thoughts still come and go…emotions still rise…but they don’t feel like they belong to a fixed “me” anymore. There’s less pressure to control everything, less need to explain or defend myself all the time. More just watching it all go down.

Even when stuff gets messy, there’s more space around it. Like recently, I had a tough conversation and noticed I wasn’t wrapped up in trying to be right or protect some identity …just watching emotions move through, staying present. There’s still pain sometimes, but without that extra layer of “what does this say about me?”…it passes through a lot more easily. Also I was right so…(haha)



3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

A tad shocking…not gonna lie. I’ve carried around this intellectual understanding of “no self” for a while and could see how I was constantly trying to control things, manage outcomes, basically run the universe. But I had never actually seen that it was all total bullshit until that moment.

There was this shift …not even dramatic, just clear …where it hit that there’s nothing to find. No one inside pulling the strings. Just thoughts, sensations, stories… doing what they do. And realizing that didn’t feel scary…it felt kind of funny actually. Like, “Oh wow… I’ve been trying to protect and fix something that was never even here. Damn”

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany?
…a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

Yes…when Vince told me to look through the ripples of self, something clicked. I realized I couldn’t actually look through them, because clarity is before them. The ripples were just thoughts, just movement…not something to get through or figure out.

That was the shift. Seeing that it was all just a trick of the mind…chasing clarity by trying to go through the noise…when the clarity was already here…already present underneath it all. Before it all. There was nothing to find and no one to find it.

5)
a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

There’s no “me” deciding anything…things just happen. Thoughts show up…likes and dislikes arise…actions follow. Sometimes there’s the feeling of choice but when I look closer the “chooser” is nowhere to be found.

Intentions pop up on their own…like a thought “I should go for a walk”…and the body moves. Sometimes the walk happens, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s not like there’s a little “me” steering it all. It’s more like watching patterns…impulses, sensations, thoughts…all just moving through…

Even when it feels like I’m making a decision, that sense of agency is just another trick. I’ll notice a few options in the mind then one gets acted onzzbut the one that “wins” isn’t picked by anyone. It just rises and unfolds. For example…the other day I had two texts I wanted to reply to. It felt like I was “choosing” who to respond to first but when I paused I could see the decision had already happened before any “me” came in to make it and narrate it.


b) What are you responsible for?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Hahaha…I’m starting to see that there’s no solid “me” here whos responsible for anything…and yet…life still moves. Things still get done. Care still shows up. It feels less like something I have to DO and more like something that naturally flows.

I used to carry responsibility like a weight…like I had to hold it all together. But from what I’m glimpsing now, it seems more like life is living itself and responsibility just arises when it’s needed. Not from a self deciding but as a kind of natural response.

With parenting for example; I still show up, I still love…I still guide…but it’s starting to feel more like it’s happening through me not by me. And that shift is making everything feel lighter, more grounded and more connected.


6) Anything to add?

Just gratitude! This whole process has been surprising…disorienting at times…but also deeply freeing. I can feel that things are shifting…not in some grand dramatic way but in quiet…steady glimpses. There’s more space, more clarity and way less pressure to fix or hold anything together.

It’s not all integrated yet…and maybe it never will be in the way the mind wants…but there’s something undeniably true here… that’s for sure. Something that’s always been here…under all the stories. I don’t know where it leads, but I trust it more than I trust the old “ME”

Thank you Vince :>


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[vinceschubert]

Oh Sarah, i was moved reading your responses. Lovely.
i have submitted them to other guides to check if I've missed anything.
If they agree you will be turned blue and invited to the Unleashed FB group.
To be clear, this is an early step on a path that will go for the rest of your life. Doubts might show up, but that doesn't mean that you've lost anything. They will be an oportunity to deepen.
Speaking of deepening, i suggest that you might be interested in guiding others (paying it forward) here on LU. There are always more seekers than active guides can assist.
It's really important that you keep this stuff alive and guiding is one way to do this.
Another is to attend the weekly groups on zoom (here is the link again) https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09 and here are countdown timers to the next meeting https://1ness.info

much love

vince