If you are new, you can start here...

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Bill
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If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Bill » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:09 am

Let's get started.
Please tell a little about yourself, and what you hope to get out of this.

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:57 am

I'm new here obviously and have been a meditator for about a year now. Rad some things on this site
I kind of get the idea / fact that there is no self but I guess I'm not completely convinced somehow..
Especially when met with stressful work situations or stressful teenager daughter. I feel like I'm on the verge of gettin it... So much to say but that's the quick and dirty.

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Bill
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Bill » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:19 pm

Welcome Socal,

Glad you came in. Noticed you made another post. We only deal with one dialogue at a time here.
So we'll start here.

So how this works, is that I ask you questions and you give me your best answers from your own direct experience.
There's no right or wrong answers in that sense, just where you are right now. That is is the best answer. And not anything from books, another thread here, or any guru type talk. Just what you are truly experiencing.


Yes, I can relate to the stressful work situations and also the stressful teenage daughter. Life stuff. The situations themselves may not change, but we might find they have less overall importance to us and not get so invested in any certain outcomes. Or not. One thing this is not, is a life improvement program. Life still goes on... All of it.

Let's get started.

What is your first name? What time zone are you in? (I'm on west coast of US.)

What do you want to get out of this? For real.

What is your reaction to this: there is no I, no separate self. None. There never has been one. There is no you living your life. Just life, flowing. What comes up for you? thoughts, feelings, sensations, etc?
Feel free to expound on this in whatever comes up for you.

If you haven't read it yet, a good pdf book (free) to read along with is
the 'Gateless Gatecrashers' book. It will be of great help as you do this process.

The pdf is here:
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/PDF/ ... ashers.pdf

Glad you're here

Bill

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:27 am

Hey there Billy.. .I live on Los angeles ,Ca PST

Joe is my name. What i want to get out of this is peace and freedom from stress and a driving sense of ego/selfish thoughts. I feel so driven to try and take care of my family its exhausting.. its very draining and I always think im not doing enough. tired of suffering basically

When i hear there is no "I" part of me thinks this is true the other seems to doubt it due to day to day life/conditioning and emotions and bodily sensations. the sense of a me is VERY convincing but i sense there is more.

I'm in the process of reading the gate crashers book now..

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Bill
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Bill » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:13 am

Joe is my name. What i want to get out of this is peace and freedom from stress and a driving sense of ego/selfish thoughts. I feel so driven to try and take care of my family its exhausting.. its very draining and I always think im not doing enough. tired of suffering basically
Hi Joe,

Same time zone so that should be good!
Good on the book. It will definitely help as you will see many other's stories and be able to identify
with a lot of them.. We're going to use roughly the same process only it'll be your story here.

I notice from your writing that all the stress and suffering is in your thoughts.

We are going to do some further work with thoughts.
1) Can you look carefully and tell me where they arise, for you?
Can you see a point of origin, in reality?

2) Looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?

3) Try this small exercise. Look at the computer. Is it truer to say, it is A computer? or a MY computer?
Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?

Answer from your direct experience Joe, whatever is true for you.

We like to try and post here daily, it helps keep up the continuity.

Bill

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:38 am

let me think about these questions tonight.. i will reply tomorrow ok?

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Bill
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Bill » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:11 am

Tomorrow's fine, Joe.
Take your time with them.
Posting once a day is fine.

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:45 am

1) Can you look carefully and tell me where they arise, for you?
Can you see a point of origin, in reality?

Tough one.. it seems that its something that comes out of me.. something that is attached to me somehow.. its verrrry convincing.. but its like it doesnt exist. confusing honestly

2) Looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?s
i would say starts out with an i attached
seems like there is a very heavy desperate clinging too of how i can not let certain things happen.. like a responsibility to make things work

3) Try this small exercise. Look at the computer. Is it truer to say, it is A computer? or a MY computer?
Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?

well the laptop for some reason i can see its just a laptop.. my car or my clothers or watch is another matter :)

it seems like my clothes are literally apart of a "me" honestly in thinking about this.. no "me" feels like death

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Bill
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Bill » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:32 am

1) Can you look carefully and tell me where they arise, for you?
Can you see a point of origin, in reality?

Tough one.. it seems that its something that comes out of me.. something that is attached to me somehow.. its verrrry convincing.. but its like it doesnt exist. confusing honestly
Hello Joe... yes thoughts seem to arise from somewhere, nowhere and everywhere. We can't really pinpoint where they come from. But come they do... again and again and again. It seems like we have control over them but when we really look, we do not. We can't stop thoughts from coming. We don't know what the next thought is going to be.
2) Looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?

i would say starts out with an i attached
seems like there is a very heavy desperate clinging too of how i can not let certain things happen.. like a responsibility to make things work
Yes! if you look carefully, you'll see that most all thoughts are 'self' centered. Dealing with me and mine or some
relation to that. And yes to the clinging feeling too.
3) Try this small exercise. Look at the computer. Is it truer to say, it is A computer? or a MY computer?
Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?

well the laptop for some reason i can see its just a laptop.. my car or my clothers or watch is another matter :)
it seems like my clothes are literally apart of a "me" honestly in thinking about this.. no "me" feels like death
So what we're looking at here Joe, is that things become 'ours' only through our thoughts. Like your clothes for example. It's solely because of your thinking that the clothes become yours vs some other clothes that are not yours. And this is the case for any other possession too.
Yes, No me can feel like a death. The death of "me".

Our thinking then is what we want to look at. Its what has been shaping our reality.

We have believed all along that this 'I' is a real thing. But we're going to find that its
only a thought we've been let to believe since we were about two years old. We can
look really hard but not find this 'I' in reality.

Do you see how literaly all thoughts are stories?
We see, a label is put on what we see, and a story is developed.
Every thought is essentially past tense in its nature.
Describing something that has happenend in the past.
The only thing that is real is what is happening right now and here.
To see this we need a willingness to see that what we
might have been thinking all along is wrong.
Or at least open to the possibility that we have been wrong.
We need a willingness to see prior to labels being put on what we see.
We only need a very short amount of this 'pure' perception or SEEING
to see that I is truly illusory in nature.

We've believed that the self is needed.
But no self is needed to function at all.
You've been tought since you were just a young boy that yes, there
is a you and your name is Joe. We have never looked at this and
questioned whether its really true or not.

We've looked at thoughts.
Now lets look at the body and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:16 am

Interesting ....I would say I moved the hand...but who the heck is I ? Just past thoughts about this body?

So who is moving the arm? Seems like a cruel joke......

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Bill
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Bill » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:24 am

Joe,

So who is moving the arm?

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:47 am

um....

hell of a question.. i thought me but I would say some energy or force...

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:48 am

its like my brain cant comprehend whats moving it.. the more i question it

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Bill
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Bill » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:50 am

These kind of questions.... don't think about them...

SEE what is doing it...

SEE = use all your senses: seeing, hearing, sensing, feeling, tasting, smelling and any other ing you got.

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Socal
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Re: If you are new, you can start here...

Postby Socal » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:56 am

I dont know what is movin my arm.


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