Do you want a guide, anyone?

[Dan]

Just write here or PM me :)

[karunavajra]

hi i need a guide .?.karunavajra

[richardcooper2k]

Hi karunavajra

I would be happy to guide you

Firstly --- what would you like me to call you?
Secondly - Please confirm you have read the disclaimer http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
Thirdly - we have a working agreement - please see below

1. You agree to post at least once a day.
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”

If you are happy with the above tell me a little about how you got to this point and what you hope to get out of this

Richard

[richardcooper2k]

Hi Richard, i am ok with the dissclaimer,and i heard about LU from a mate i was in a mens group with.I want freedom from delusion .Thanks for guiding me.

Here, on this forum we examine experience to see if the labels "I" and "me" point to anything that can be found in experience.
Do you think this will result in freedom from all delusion ?
What do you find in experience that the words "I" and "me" point to ?

If you click on subscribe topic at the bottom of the screen you will get an e-mail when i post

[karunavajra]

i should have said illution 2if i look at my experiance i cant find a me or i behind the words,but i am not convinced completly

[richardcooper2k]

What can you find other than sensation, emotion, the seen, sound, taste, smell and thought ?
What is here other than life happening ?
Who or what isn't convinced ?

[karunavajra]

Hi,Richard behind all the sounds, sensations,emotions and thoughts there is awareness but ownerless 2 just life happening.it cant be any other way 3thoughts arise doubting and causing feelings,maybe I am exspecting some kind of experience,but its all just a conditioned response. ps how does the quote function work

[richardcooper2k]

OK, good

Now we need to keep things real simple here

We cannot rely on any conclusions that are drawn because they are just thoughts arising which as you correctly point out are a conditioned arising so not reliable because the conditions (we can assume) will be previous thoughts with incorrect assumptions. Does this make sense ?
What we can rely on is looking and seeing what is arising now in direct experience.

Can you see if thoughts arise doubting and causing feelings or is this only "known" as thought content rather than direct seeing.

Or more simply; can a thought think or doubt ?
Is there a thinker of thoughts ?
Can thoughts and feelings be seen causing one another or do are they just noticed as arisings ?

I am not trying to pick holes in what you have said. I want you to look and see the difference between a deduction (which is basically just an arising thought, yes ?) and seeing something directly in experience.

[karunavajra]

1,yes this does make sense 2a thought cant think or doubt 3there is no thinker of thoughts4 thoughts and feelings can be seen as causing one another and as arisings depending on the emotion if anger is strong it feels like it is happening to me but afterwards I can see it as arisings

[richardcooper2k]

Sorry, thought i had written about the quote function
The way i do it is :
Copy and paste the text i want to quote
Highlight the text i have pasted (click at start and drag cursor across)
Click on quote (you need to be in full editor rather than quick reply)

1,yes this does make sense 2a thought cant think or doubt 3there is no thinker of thoughts4 thoughts and feelings can be seen as causing one another and as arisings depending on the emotion if anger is strong it feels like it is happening to me but afterwards I can see it as arisings

OK. Even after it has been clearly seen there is no self habitual thoughts will continue to arise. Since there is no self in control of these thought (and never has been), the content of some of these thoughts will continue to be about Robert and claim ownership of feelings (after the fact).

Is there an experiencer ?

Look at your current experience. If it was clearly seen there was no self, how would the experience be different (if at all) ?

Is there a chooser ?

Do you have control over anything (feelings, thoughts, actions, etc) ?

[karunavajra]

Richard, 1 There is no experiencer 2.When the self has been seen through all is arisings(interconnectedness) 3.There is no chooser The self thinks its got control but it never did have. ps,there are computer skills arising but very basic ha ha

[richardcooper2k]

Hi Robert, to get more of a feel for where you are with this i need to hear some descriptive stuff of "your" experience.

Talk about whatever you want in your day to day experience or use the following questions as a springboard:

What is the relationship between arisings and interconnectedness in experience ?

How is the arising of computer skills experienced ?

[karunavajra]

Richard,when I am cycleing there is a more intense feeling of everything unfolding but its ownerless.2the feeling that arose around computer skills took me back to my school days and the story of me,but as an adult I was ok with it and after I saw it as arisings.

[richardcooper2k]

What is the experience of arisings ?

[karunavajra]

arising just happens without a me or i