Will it work for me...?

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MarcF
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Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:48 pm

I would like to introduce myself here, in fact not much. I have been looking for answers since a long time, following processes and new gurus from time to time, but nothing like many people here whom I read their introduction before daring make a move.
I do not read much, as it doesn't bring relief in my suffering.
Only a couple of times did I raise myself into a different state of mindfulness and peace, only to fall lower and deeper once the bliss is gone, discovering that things didn't change, that I entertained an illusion of life changing solutions, and that my relationship to myself is still the very same, inducing more pain, depressive state, self hate, etc....

I have stopped looking, carrying my cross daily while dreaming of what could be, what I'd like to be... trapped again in my ego, my mental. I even fear the result, whether I'd succeed, as past experience taught me that there is no escape.

I live in fear, fear to be loved, or hated, rich, or poor, to be less than others, to be nothing, worthless.. I could spend an hour listing my fears and still not reaching the bottom of it.
worse even, I live a lie, make my life and actions a lie, wearing a mask all the time, that I re-adjust according to situations or people crossing my momentums of life. I believe that somewhere I lost track of the reality, who I am really, as my constructions of self only tend to hide the real me.

I need guidance, love, and light, but I am scared. what if my life became marvelous? what to do then of all this life I built on illusions?

Thank you people to be here, to dedicate your experiences to help others. I hope to prove worthy of your time, whenever you feel this time has come.

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:14 pm

Dear Marc,
thank you for your introduction. I see that you are done with miracle cures to make your life better? What we offer here is not bliss and eternal peace. What I can show you is the shocking truth that the center your life is build around, does not exist. When this is seen, life might unfold without this lie getting in the way. This investigation has to be done for the love of truth, not to make life "better".

The rules are: I give you questions to contemplate deeply, and you post what you find, at least once a day. Put all other theories and systems aside for the time of this dialogue, and answer with 100%honesty.

If that is ok with you, let's start!
I believe that somewhere I lost track of the reality, who I am really, as my constructions of self only tend to hide the real me.
What comes up when you read this:
I agree that you lost track of reality because: the constructions of self is all there is. There is no real me.

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:30 pm

Hello Ingen,
thanks for taking up the challenge! I will do my best to ace the questions (hence becoming your best student ever?!)

do you imply that there is no reality other than through the construction of self? that there is only a Me in constant move through different moments, hence never real? that reality is only the building of oneself?

I am not quite sure of what to think of that else than I might just loose my marbles trying to rationalize it...

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:05 pm

I am not quite sure of what to think of that else than I might just loose my marbles trying to rationalize it...
Haha, the way to keep your marbles is: Don't "rationalize".

First lesson: Use direct experience for answering the questions. Don't refer to second hand knowledge, to memory, to theory.

Can you find a "real me" in your direct experience?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:13 pm

yes. in the now.
but quickly overwhelmed by thoughts wrapping and moulding into something else that I believe is what makes me.

i read again, and caught a glimpse of another answer, if there is no me.
do you imply that there is no reality other than through the construction of self? that there is only a Me in constant move through different moments, hence never real? that reality is only the building of oneself?
are we jeu part of a stream, like the sea following currents and adapting to the shores or rocks? then the me that was is no more, å new self appears ...in constant adaptation? which would be human way as sea do not adapt, it jus passes, whatever, with no thoughts.

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:41 am

Marc, you might be on the right track with your philosophizing, but I would like you to slow down considerably and LOOK what is going on instead. Otherwise you will end up with interesting theories instead of the simple seeing of reality.

The question was:

Can you find a "real me" in your direct experience?


Your answer:
yes. in the now.
but quickly overwhelmed by thoughts wrapping and moulding into something else that I believe is what makes me.
Look again. What is happening in this moment? With your five senses, what do you experience? Sights, sounds, smells, tactile sensations? Thoughts? Just list up what there is, don't draw conclusions yet.

As I said, slow down, so you can really notice what is going on!

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:50 am

MarcF, what is happening? Are you there?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:16 pm

Hi INgen,

Yes I am here, watching this space. apparently I did something wrong on my last post, as it does not appear. was waiting eagerly for your notch last night, went to bed sad, feeling unloved.

I have difficulties to understand some of your simplest questions.
now is the wrong time as I am surrounded by distractions, feeling tired and angry with having to get back to work when the world start relaxing for the WE. mostly...
you can call me Marc, forget the F... :)

right now I feel cold, I am concerned with my daughter's blocked nose, and watching the beautiful colored drawing she is doing in front of me.. it amazes me how beautiful she can make simple things look like with a few pens.
will catch you later, and no worries, until you don't manage to liberate me, we are one.

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:20 pm

Dear Marc,

glad to see that you haven't disappeared. I am usually checking in here several times a day.
now is the wrong time as I am surrounded by distractions
While it is good to put a lot of energy into this inquiry, it doesn't require quiet time. We are just observing normal life, doing everyday activities.
I have difficulties to understand some of your simplest questions.
When you understand it, you are liberated:)
Look again. What is happening in this moment? With your five senses, what do you experience? Sights, sounds, smells, tactile sensations? Thoughts? Just list up what there is, don't draw conclusions yet.
right now I feel cold, I am concerned with my daughter's blocked nose, and watching the beautiful colored drawing she is doing in front of me..
Yes, these are the things showing up in direct experience: Feeling of cold temperature,thoughts about blocked nose, sight of colored drawings, thoughts about "beautiful".

Is there a self in direct experience? Can you find a ME that is more than a thought

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:35 am

there is the me that I think is me, the one we like or dislike, love or hate, with funny ideas or angry momentums, I guess. when I have pain, get tired, upset, jealous, all that makes life, easy or not, is me.

but when I look at my daughter, I feel only, just a communion, an emotion, an energy bigger than Me or anything. like there are no other moments.
those are glimpses, quickly drawn into new thoughts more rational, like ...hoho, look how nice she is.
when I just look at her sleeping, hearing her breathing, smelling her sweetness, touching her fresh skin, feeling her confidence in life, surrendering to the present, there is no me, just a state of silent, pure flow of love. here there is no thoughts, no me.

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:59 am

there is the me that I think is me, the one we like or dislike, love or hate, with funny ideas or angry momentums, I guess. when I have pain, get tired, upset, jealous, all that makes life, easy or not, is me.
In your direct experience, is there a me "having" pain? "Having" an easy or not-so-easy life?

Or does joy, pain, likes, dislikes, funny ideas and angry momentums just show up?

Can you make them show up?

If yes: Why don't you have more funny ideas show up? And less pain?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:01 am

seems it just shows up most of the time, or in reaction to external situations.
the me can have pain, when it comes to physical pain as hurting my body, getting sick.
yes I can generate fun times, happiness, I realize I am retty much in charge of my emotions and what is resulting.

I get easily on the reaction side, as per others reactions. some angry dude will either make me laugh, or upset me.

often I am pondering problems, or what seem to be problems.. bills to pay, targets to reach, child education, with lots of negative thoughts when goals are not reached. it results great suffering of self and feeling of running in a circle.
I know I create it myself, but don't know how to find joy when nothing is opened to joy...

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:58 am

the me can have pain, when it comes to physical pain as hurting my body, getting sick.
Who or what is it that is experiencing pain? You or your body?
What makes the body your body?
Who or what is that me that has a body?

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MarcF
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby MarcF » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:36 pm

the me can have pain, when it comes to physical pain as hurting my body, getting sick.
Who or what is it that is experiencing pain? You or your body?

my idea of a body

What makes the body your body?

my upbringing, social, religious, etc, acquired by known sciences, medicines, institutions,...whatever makes you believe life is what you feel and see and suffer or enjoy, given different doses of each everyday in the big forum of life , as a random lottery. you receive subliminal instructions maybe that drive you toward different reactions. those you decide, depending of the moment's mood

Who or what is that me that has a body?
dunno yet, or wouldn't be here......
guess thoughts only, taking shape in a mass belief that we are what we think, what we see, subjects to a general idea of life, status agreed by birth, allowing questions but not "remise en question"
there is no real me, just a mass, a weight, an entity created to look the part. loads of interacting things make it real by anchoring ideas and make it The Life as it Is.......
until I find the key, I suffer from this slavery

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Ingen
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Re: Will it work for me...?

Postby Ingen » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:34 pm

Who or what is that me that has a body?

dunno yet, or wouldn't be here......
guess thoughts only, taking shape in a mass belief that we are what we think, what we see, subjects to a general idea of life, status agreed by birth, allowing questions but not "remise en question"
Stop guessing. LOOK. Even if your theory is correct, it doesn't help if you don't see it.

When you are hungry and decide to eat: Who decides to eat? You or your body? You or your thoughts? Is there a you that can be hungry?
Observe when the thought commentary about actions is setting in. Do you first think: "I will turn left" Or do you turn left and then label this action in your thoughts: "I turned left".
Pick apart all actions and thoughts, moment for moment. It is not easy, but it can be done.

Did YOU decide to scratch your head just now?


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