Hi, anyone newcomer looking for some help?

[neeeel]

Hey, if you are ready to take a look into no-self, post here!

[pamelaholt]

Hello Neeeeel, Yes I am new here and would like some help.

[neeeel]

Hi, pamela.

To start off, can you tell me what you are expecting from this process, what do you think will happen, what are your goals/expectations?

And also, can you answer, what is the self?

Dont worry about correct answers. Just tell me how you see it now.
thanks
neil

[pamelaholt]

What I hope for is the sure knowing that I had once that there really was no one here.. It was experential. Now it seems like a distant memory and the mind is back with all sorts of explanations as to what happened.. It feels like there is a me now.
What is the self? I dont honestly know.. Its just felt...

[neeeel]

What I hope for is the sure knowing that I had once that there really was no one here.. It was experential. Now it seems like a distant memory and the mind is back with all sorts of explanations as to what happened.. It feels like there is a me now.

It sounds like you had an experience, rather than actually seeing the truth. Once you have seen theres no one here, you can always check again and see if its true. So, we are not looking for a specific type of experience, an altered mind state, a certain emotion ( bliss, peace, whatever). We are simply trying to get the brain to recognise a truth, to see through a belief it holds.

What is the self? I dont honestly know.. Its just felt...

You dont know? Really? How about, you are the person in control of your life, the one who makes decisions about what to do, the one who is liked by friends, or disliked by some people. You are the one who is good at some things, not so good at others. You are the one thinking your thoughts, feeling your emotions, the one living your life, the owner of the body.

Does any of that strike a chord with you? Can you give me a list of things, not necessarily what I have written above( unless its true for you) , of what the self is.

thanks
neil

[pamelaholt]

Yes to all you wrote... I am the one feeling the pain of the fall I have just had.. I am the one making choices... I am the one with likes , dislikes. I am the one who is alive and will one day die.... There is a me ... and it doesnt feel like a belief..


regards
Pamela

[neeeel]

There is a me ... and it doesnt feel like a belief..

Ok, so you say it doesnt feel like a belief. So if its not a belief, then you should be able to say where this me is? If it doesnt feel like a belief, what does it feel like? Does it feel like a separate entity? If so where is this entity located? Is the "me" a feeling? If so, where in the body is this feeling, and what feeling is it?
Take a look and see what you can find

neil

[pamelaholt]

Yes I feel like a separate entity encased in this skin... The entity has no specific location ... My focus of attention might shift but I feel like I am looking out of these eyes... The attention can wander to the pain in my leg.... I am located here and all objects are outside of me.. I am not looking out of your eyes or feeling your pain.. My memories are of my life and not yours...

Pamela

[neeeel]

Yes I feel like a separate entity encased in this skin... The entity has no specific location ...

If the entity has no specific location, then how do you know its there? it may feel like there is a separate entity there, but is there? That is what we need to find out. when you say "I feel like a separate entity encased in this skin" what feelings are you perceiving that give you the impression of a separate entity?

My focus of attention might shift but I feel like I am looking out of these eyes... The attention can wander to the pain in my leg.... I am located here and all objects are outside of me.. I am not looking out of your eyes or feeling your pain.. My memories are of my life and not yours...

Pamela

Is there a you looking out of your eyes? if there is , you should be able to stop looking out of the eyes ? Can you ( closing your eyes doesnt count)?

[pamelaholt]

Neil,
This has really given me food for thought.. Can I reply later.? I have just had visitors
Regards
Pamela

[neeeel]

Neil,
This has really given me food for thought.. Can I reply later.? I have just had visitors
Regards
Pamela

Hey, no problem, answer when you are ready. Just a note, we are not looking to think about all this, and come up with an answer. That would be useless. You need to look in reality, at what actually is happening.

thanks
neil

[pamelaholt]

Neil wrote;
If the entity has no specific location, then how do you know its there? it may feel like there is a separate entity there, but is there? That is what we need to find out. when you say "I feel like a separate entity encased in this skin" what feelings are you perceiving that give you the impression of a separate entity?

All the sensations that are felt are seemingly felt internally. I feel energy of emotions and bodily sensations internally... tingling. warmth, cold pain, energy of irritability, energy of laughter.. etc I seem to be stuck on the notion that I only feel stuff that is pertinent to this body. .. I cant feel the sensations in the "other". Hence there must be a person here.
Neil wrote;
Is there a you looking out of your eyes? if there is , you should be able to stop looking out of the eyes ? Can you ( closing your eyes doesnt count)?

Now that was impactful.. I truly see that hearing , seeing, tasting, touching, and smelling is happening spontaneously..

So I dont even see where I am stuck.


Regards
Pamela

[neeeel]

All the sensations that are felt are seemingly felt internally. I feel energy of emotions and bodily sensations internally... tingling. warmth, cold pain, energy of irritability, energy of laughter.. etc I seem to be stuck on the notion that I only feel stuff that is pertinent to this body. .. I cant feel the sensations in the "other". Hence there must be a person here.

There is a body and a brain. A set of nerve endings and connections, so of course you cant feel the sensations in the other, only where your nerves and skin and organs are. But what we are looking at is, is there a self, a you, in this body controlling the body and living life through that body? Are you experiencing all these sensations and emotions, or is there just the experience happening of all these sensations and emotions? You say, "I only feel stuff that is pertinent to this body", what is this I that feels stuff, and where is it?

Now that was impactful.. I truly see that hearing , seeing, tasting, touching, and smelling is happening spontaneously..

So I dont even see where I am stuck.

Ok, you see its happening spontaneously, but is it happening to you?

[neeeel]

hey, are you still around? still looking into this?

[pamelaholt]

hello Neil.
I am still here looking into this, I have had my grankids here so time has been short but they are going home today.

So I am getting clearer and can see that senses are happening spontaneously but somehow thoughts seem to have someone or something directing them.. or at least choosing them.. I am now seeming to choose to answer this rather than do jobs..

Neil wrote;

Ok, you see its happening spontaneously, but is it happening to you?


In the experience I first spoke of it was clear there was no one .. but now there feels like a person ..a contraction... Any question that bugs me is that the sense of presence, of being alive
is that a soul? Does this teaching negate such notions?

Regards

Pamela