What is that?

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Hesam
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What is that?

Postby Hesam » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:16 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
A friend gave me the recommendation to come here, as he himself found this website helpful. And saw in me what he had gone through earlier in life, the hunger for answers and truth to keep it simply explained.
I got the site information for about 7-8 months ago, but I was not ready, but in the last 2-3 weeks I have been thinking about this website/community on a daily basis, and asking what there is to gain and its just something pulling me here, so i cant really put it to words. Something just woken up inside and try to listen to it.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?
As i mentioned in the earlier question, I was not ready for for this when I first heard about it, I did not know at that time why I was not drawn to it, but looking back I see that the maturity I needed, was to feel that I was not seeking in finding a mentor here or a role model.

As I realized about the consequences in my life coming from the absence of a father and masculine energy in my life, I was at that time searching for someone to basically just show me everything, I felt at times as I was drowning and anyone close to resemble a father figure I would drown them too by clinging hard to them while them trying to "save" me.

I came to understand that inside of me is the only teacher and guide I need, and all the answers I need is inside of methen the questions started to be more like "how can i unlock my self?" "how can i see" etc. Instead of trying to find the questions from inside someone else. (I hope I am making some kind of sense here).

I want to find out the truth that is inside of me, I want to understand, i want to be able to witness all that is happening inside and around.

I don't want to reject anything, I just want to witness without judgement or automatically trying to change it, (dont know if I make my self clear, I hope so).

My biggest wish coming here is for someone to just point at the direction at least, I just feels like I'm running to all directions at the same time now. I know it is my own 'engine' who needs to take me there, but as for now it feels like I'm trying all liquids possible to even start the engine. Some works a little bit and some doesn't work at all.
And don't get me wrong, I am smiling while I'm writing this, and I understand that the 'chase' is half the fun and I don't want to miss out from it, I want to enjoy that as well.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
It started I would say around 3 years ago when I experienced the death of 3 friends within a month ½, and one of them struck me really hard. I started questioning death and I felt so much anger, and I just could not understand or even accept. Following this events I felt the urge to control the things in my life and it being more important than ever to me that everything was in 'its place', I started loosing my hair, beard etc (I was 26-27 at that time), not a single moment was spent in the now, always just the past and future.

I managed to put the lid on all the emotions and just head down and keep going.

Until around a year ½ after where everything more or less collapsed on me, all the emotions from childhood until then just came like a wave. And as a perfect timing I found this friend who introduced me to ayahuasca, which helped me greatly.
The plant medicine has done so much for me, and I felt that i needed to give back as well, by doing some searching without the aid of ayahuasca, I could not just rely on the plant medicine to do all the work i felt like, so I started just googling on internet basically and started reading about Sri Ramana Maharshi and listening to all that could be listened to about him and history's around, it led to Papaji, Mooji, basically anyone who talked about finding the true self i would read or listen to. And same question popped up in my mind as when i was a child "why did this voice become me, why did I become me." It was all very intriguing to me.
How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? 10

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forgetmenot
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Re: What is that?

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:18 am

Hi Hesam,

My name is Kay, and I am happy to assist you in exploring the illusion of the separate self. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers.
If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what you already actually know, not through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. What is LOOKING?

‘Looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual down to the actual experience (AE), to reality, to what's happening. It is becoming aware of, and continually noticing sound, taste, smell, thought, sensation and colours/images (aka actual experience AE) to see what is really present and always has been. It’s also noticing thought/s - not thinking, but noticing or being ‘aware’ of thought/s as thoughts layer concepts over these raw experiences. A thought, label or concept is never the actual experience (AE). Some thoughts point to actual experience, and some point to other thoughts aka thought stories.


Could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?


Please answer the questions highlighted in blue text individually, and remember to highlight the question being answered by using the quote function.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:04 am

Hi Kay,

Thank you for investing your time in this process with me.

I just want to start off by saying that English is not my first language so I am sorry if i makes some mistakes now and then. Just let me know if I am not making my self clear. :)
If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.
Check
Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.
Check
Some housekeeping guidelines:
I will look at them every now and then to remind myself as well, thank you.

Could you please answer the 5 following questions:
How will life change?
I think that life will continue as planned i guess. Without putting 'me' inside of the question i would say that life will keep going as it always does.
How will you change?
This is more of a scary question, i believe that when i see the truth that i might wont be able to continue with what i am doing today, the hamster wheel so to say. Something like, when you see it, you cant go back, you cant un-see it again. But i believe it will be a peaceful story at the end, but resistance before, like the calmness after a stormy night at sea.
What will be different?
I think sometimes that if i see the self as it is, i can find even more compassion to other beings here, i can understand more where others come from in their story's. And mostly i can see what is going on inside of me, without casting judgement on every single word that is created in the mind. Also simultaneity i have this big question mark inside my mind, that i don't know what will be different. And it is a more calming feeling to think that i just don't know.
What is missing?
Oh wow. Sometimes it feels that all is missing, and sometimes just the last puzzle. But i guess its just that feeling that 'this is not it', this book have more pages but i dont know which ones. Don't know if i make any sense here.
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
I want to know in which ocean i should search for the pearl, as for now i am just snorkling in all the waters i can find, but i want to go deep in one, with the scuba gear and all, with the guidance of someone who has been there, who can just give me direktions, i dont need to be held all the way, but atleast know that i am in the right ocean. I guess getting some hope for what i am searching for, hope to keep hammering at life and continue this journey.


Thank you again Kay, i hope i kept my answers within the right format and not wandering away to much from them, just let me know if i did so i can be more clear in the coming process. :)

Much love
Hesam

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forgetmenot
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Re: What is that?

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:29 pm

Hi Hesam,
Thank you for investing your time in this process with me. I just want to start off by saying that English is not my first language so I am sorry if i makes some mistakes now and then. Just let me know if I am not making my self clear. :)
You’re welcome! That’s okay, if something isn’t clear I will ask you to clarify and if something I write isn’t clear, you can do the same.
How will life change?
I think that life will continue as planned i guess. Without putting 'me' inside of the question i would say that life will keep going as it always does.
Yes, life just keeps on ‘lifing’. There is no one/no thing that is in control of life, or who is deciding, choosing, thinking or doing, so there is no one planning life, even if it appears as if there is. There are thoughts (stories) that appear about an “I” planning and living life, but they are just thoughts that appear and are appearing to no one!

How will you change?
This is more of a scary question, i believe that when i see the truth that i might wont be able to continue with what i am doing today, the hamster wheel so to say. Something like, when you see it, you cant go back, you cant un-see it again. But i believe it will be a peaceful story at the end, but resistance before, like the calmness after a stormy night at sea.
There has NEVER been a ‘separate individual’ and there isn’t one now who is reading this. Thoughts appear about an “I” on a “hamster wheel” but they are just thoughts, and thoughts know nothing!

When Santa Claus was realised to be a story, did life, ‘you’ or anything change? The idea and stories of/about Santa and Christmas still appear, gifts are still exchanged and Santa is still seen on street corners and shopping malls every December! Expectations and perceptions about Santa and Christmas changed, but the “hamster wheel” still continues to go round! Neither ‘you’, Santa or Christmas disappeared never to be seen again!

What will be different?
I think sometimes that if i see the self as it is, i can find even more compassion to other beings here, i can understand more where others come from in their story's. And mostly i can see what is going on inside of me, without casting judgement on every single word that is created in the mind. Also simultaneity i have this big question mark inside my mind, that i don't know what will be different. And it is a more calming feeling to think that i just don't know.
Since there is no ‘separate individual’ there are no ‘others’ either! Compassion is a concept and has no basis in actual experience (AE), however, if it seems that there is more ‘compassion’ then that is what is happening in the story, but there is no person who can become more compassionate.

The idea of ‘judgement’ is just another appearance in THIS, and is only just another thought appearing ABOUT a “me” judging a “self”. However there is no ‘you’ judging anything or that is thinking or controlling thoughts, so if judgement seemingly appears, it is just another appearance in the story of a fictional character called “I”.

What is missing?
Oh wow. Sometimes it feels that all is missing, and sometimes just the last puzzle. But i guess its just that feeling that 'this is not it', this book have more pages but i dont know which ones. Don't know if i make any sense here.
Yes, the book is full of stories about an “I” who is missing something, who is confused, who is not getting or understanding something and who needs to find the missing puzzle piece to ‘get it’. The operative word in this is ‘story’. However, there is nothing missing, there can never ever be anything missing and never will be.

How can anything be missing? A story might appear saying “I don’t know what that smell is”, however, smell is known and is never not known! Same goes for colour, thought, taste, sound and sensation!

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
I want to know in which ocean i should search for the pearl, as for now i am just snorkling in all the waters i can find, but i want to go deep in one, with the scuba gear and all, with the guidance of someone who has been there, who can just give me direktions, i dont need to be held all the way, but atleast know that i am in the right ocean. I guess getting some hope for what i am searching for, hope to keep hammering at life and continue this journey.
Once the idea of their being a ‘separate self’ has been seen through, that all pervasive seeking does come to end and from that perspective it seems ‘life’ is more peaceful. However, there is no one/no thing that is or isn’t peaceful.

My job is to point to help you to see in which ‘direction’ to LOOK. It is up to you if you LOOK, I can’t do that for you!
Thank you again Kay, i hope i kept my answers within the right format and not wandering away to much from them, just let me know if i did so i can be more clear in the coming process. :)
Yes, your answers were great. Don’t get too caught up in how you answer though, Hesam. Just write what comes up and be 100% honest. There is no one here judging you and there are no right or wrong answers. If something doesn’t seem to be clear, I will just keep pointing until it becomes clear :)

Much love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:20 pm

Hey Kay, and thank you for the answers, it makes the brain feel like it has been tossed into a mixer. :)
There has NEVER been a ‘separate individual’ and there isn’t one now who is reading this. Thoughts appear about an “I” on a “hamster wheel” but they are just thoughts, and thoughts know nothing!
How can it be that this meat body can understand the theory, but the brain wont accept it into practical? It is like concept of "I" really want to believe, but looses the grip just when about to SEE or understand/accept? Its like its being pulled back as if programmed not to understand?
When Santa Claus was realized to be a story, did life, ‘you’ or anything change? The idea and stories of/about Santa and Christmas still appear, gifts are still exchanged and Santa is still seen on street corners and shopping malls every December! Expectations and perceptions about Santa and Christmas changed, but the “hamster wheel” still continues to go round! Neither ‘you’, Santa or Christmas disappeared never to be seen again!
This really made me laugh, cause it puts it into so simple ways of explaining, and yes the life just kept on going as if everyone is agreeing in this lie and happily just smiling anyways. Is this what we are doing all the time, everyday, to the concept of 'separate individual'? Just that we are blinded by the "I"? I mean the santa case is so obvious, but the true self seems to be hidden from everyone or THE ONE rather, hidden from itself? Is consciousness playing games with it self?
Compassion is a concept and has no basis in actual experience (AE), however, if it seems that there is more ‘compassion’ then that is what is happening in the story, but there is no person who can become more compassionate.
I dont know if i got this correctly, so let me see; Compassion is a feeling, and since feelings and thoughts are not "me" they cannot be fitted into the IS that is happening? (IS = actual experience?)
How can anything be missing? A story might appear saying “I don’t know what that smell is”, however, smell is known and is never not known! Same goes for colour, thought, taste, sound and sensation!
For something to be missing, it has to exist first, but what if it has never existed, or can something be made up that it did exist to give the illusion of it missing? And if yes, what creates all the illusions? (The mind is doing flips right now).
My job is to point to help you to see in which ‘direction’ to LOOK. It is up to you if you LOOK, I can’t do that for you!
I will do my best Kay!
Yes, your answers were great. Don’t get too caught up in how you answer though, Hesam. Just write what comes up and be 100% honest. There is no one here judging you and there are no right or wrong answers. If something doesn’t seem to be clear, I will just keep pointing until it becomes clear :)
I did what you said now and i have to say i still have this voice telling me to read over what i wrote, but i wont do that, i want it to be as 'fresh' as possible. Thank you for putting the confidence into me.

Much love!
Hesam

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Re: What is that?

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:35 pm

Hi Hesam,
There has NEVER been a ‘separate individual’ and there isn’t one now who is reading this. Thoughts appear about an “I” on a “hamster wheel” but they are just thoughts, and thoughts know nothing!
How can it be that this meat body can understand the theory, but the brain wont accept it into practical? It is like concept of "I" really want to believe, but looses the grip just when about to SEE or understand/accept? Its like its being pulled back as if programmed not to understand?
The "meat/body" is the actual experience (AE) of image/colour and not the AE of a body, and the “brain” is just a concept.

Can a brain be seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted, or are there only thoughts appearing ABOUT a brain?
When Santa Claus was realized to be a story, did life, ‘you’ or anything change? The idea and stories of/about Santa and Christmas still appear, gifts are still exchanged and Santa is still seen on street corners and shopping malls every December! Expectations and perceptions about Santa and Christmas changed, but the “hamster wheel” still continues to go round! Neither ‘you’, Santa or Christmas disappeared never to be seen again!
This really made me laugh, cause it puts it into so simple ways of explaining, and yes the life just kept on going as if everyone is agreeing in this lie and happily just smiling anyways. Is this what we are doing all the time, everyday, to the concept of 'separate individual'? Just that we are blinded by the "I"? I mean the santa case is so obvious, but the true self seems to be hidden from everyone or THE ONE rather, hidden from itself? Is consciousness playing games with it self?
There is no “THE ONE”. For something to be one, there must be an idea that there is two, and there are not two! There is just THIS that appears as everything and yet is no thing…it just IS. Don’t get hung up on this. This exploration is about seeing what you are not. Once the recognition of there being no separate individual appears, then a new thread can be created for further investigation if so desired. But, what THIS is, will start to become clearer as we continue to explore :)
Compassion is a concept and has no basis in actual experience (AE), however, if it seems that there is more ‘compassion’ then that is what is happening in the story, but there is no person who can become more compassionate.
I dont know if i got this correctly, so let me see; Compassion is a feeling, and since feelings and thoughts are not "me" they cannot be fitted into the IS that is happening? (IS = actual experience?)
Yes, IS appears as AE, and actual experience = sound, thought, taste, smell, image/colour and sensation.
Is there ever a time when there is no appearance of sound, thought, taste, smell, image/colour and sensation?

Can a ‘feeling’ know anything about a concept labelled “compassion”? Or are there only thoughts ABOUT compassion and what compassion is/means? And can the label/thought "compassion" know anything about compassion?

How can anything be missing? A story might appear saying “I don’t know what that smell is”, however, smell is known and is never not known! Same goes for colour, thought, taste, sound and sensation!
For something to be missing, it has to exist first, but what if it has never existed, or can something be made up that it did exist to give the illusion of it missing? And if yes, what creates all the illusions? (The mind is doing flips right now).
The idea that something didn’t exist yesterday but exists today is a belief in time. However, actual experience (AE) is always known.
Sound, image/colour, thought, smell, taste and sensation are always known are they not? When a thought appears is it not known that a thought is appearing, same as colour, sound etc?
I did what you said now and i have to say i still have this voice telling me to read over what i wrote, but i wont do that, i want it to be as 'fresh' as possible. Thank you for putting the confidence into me.
Don’t put pressures on yourself. Just enjoy the exploration and share freely what you wish to share.

Much love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:56 am

Hi Kay :)
The "meat/body" is the actual experience (AE) of image/colour and not the AE of a body, and the “brain” is just a concept.


Can a brain be seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted, or are there only thoughts appearing ABOUT a brain?
I feel some frustration cause i cant wrap my head around the question. (maybe the lack of my English skills i don't know)
But viewing from the eyes, the brain is just some kind of material, i keep thinking about an actual physical brain held in my hands, which can be experienced but i don't think that's the road we should be aiming for. :)
The word "brain" is just another word that is pointing to something that the "I" has been taught to understand, just like "I" would know where to look if you would have said the word "ear" or "foot".
There is no “THE ONE”. For something to be one, there must be an idea that there is two, and there are not two! There is just THIS that appears as everything and yet is no thing…it just IS. Don’t get hung up on this. This exploration is about seeing what you are not. Once the recognition of there being no separate individual appears, then a new thread can be created for further investigation if so desired. But, what THIS is, will start to become clearer as we continue to explore :)
Yes I understand, I think I understand at least, maybe its like you are saying. Just to look at everything and understand that i am not that. It is so hard to grasp the "IS" however, it feels like I can understand, but not feel it, so hard to put into words.

Yes, IS appears as AE, and actual experience = sound, thought, taste, smell, image/colour and sensation.
Is there ever a time when there is no appearance of sound, thought, taste, smell, image/colour and sensation?
To the concept of "I" i think there is always AE around it, that it attaches to? Without the concept of "I" attached to AE can there exist AE to be registered? I mean if "I" is not there, then its just happening without caring about who sees it? Like a flower is blossoming and does not care if anyone stops and says "what a pretty flower" or not, its just IS, and its doing its thing?
Sorry if i got into wrong subjects again, just trying to simplify it in someway to be able to grasp the whole thing.

Can a ‘feeling’ know anything about a concept labelled “compassion”? Or are there only thoughts ABOUT compassion and what compassion is/means? And can the label/thought "compassion" know anything about compassion?
If there was no "I" to pick up the "feelings/thoughts" and attach it self to, then there would be no labels. It feels i get stuck into the same pattern when thinking about it, its like the concept of "I" has just been programmed to know this words and "emotions" and how to attached to them.

The idea that something didn’t exist yesterday but exists today is a belief in time. However, actual experience (AE) is always known.
Sound, image/colour, thought, smell, taste and sensation are always known are they not? When a thought appears is it not known that a thought is appearing, same as colour, sound etc?
Yes yes, when something pops up, instantly it gets a label, also when a thought appears it is reconsidered being a thought, like something already knows it is a thought before "I" knew.


There was an interesting thing this morning eating breakfast, where i just kind of watched the "I" as i was buttering my sandwich, putting on cheese and putting into the mouth etc. Felt kind of strange cause the only think that took up the time, was just to watch. It felt as if something was watching myself doing all those things automatically. But i could not stay in that "zone" for long.

I really appreciate you Kay, thanks again!

Hesam
xx

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Re: What is that?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:53 am

Hey Hesam!

I know you have many questions going round and round that want to be answered….but let’s do this a step at a time. :)
The "meat/body" is the actual experience (AE) of image/colour and not the AE of a body, and the “brain” is just a concept.
Can a brain be seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted, or are there only thoughts appearing ABOUT a brain?
I feel some frustration cause i cant wrap my head around the question. (maybe the lack of my English skills i don't know)
But viewing from the eyes, the brain is just some kind of material, i keep thinking about an actual physical brain held in my hands, which can be experienced but i don't think that's the road we should be aiming for. :)
The word "brain" is just another word that is pointing to something that the "I" has been taught to understand, just like "I" would know where to look if you would have said the word "ear" or "foot".
So, let’s look at the concept of a “brain” and see if it can be found as actual experience. I don’t expect you to get this straight away, but this is how you start to LOOK with actual experience (AE)

The label “brain” is the actual experience (AE) of thought and not the AE of a “brain”.
The image/colour labelled as “brain” is the AE of colour and not the AE of a “brain”
The sensation labelled as “holding a brain” (if you were to hold one!) is the AE of sensation and not the AE of “holding a brain”.

So there is no actual experience of a “brain”, what is actually appearing is label + image/colour + sensation + thoughts ABOUT a brain.
Can a ‘feeling’ know anything about a concept labelled “compassion”? Or are there only thoughts ABOUT compassion and what compassion is/means? And can the label/thought "compassion" know anything about compassion?
If there was no "I" to pick up the "feelings/thoughts" and attach it self to, then there would be no labels. It feels i get stuck into the same pattern when thinking about it, its like the concept of "I" has just been programmed to know this words and "emotions" and how to attached to them.
I am not talking about an “I” and there is no “I” that is picking up feelings/thoughts and attaching itself to them! I simply asked can a “feeling” or a thought know anything about “compassion”?

If you were to kick the toe and the sensation ‘ouchouch’ appeared…would the sensation itself know anything about the concept of pain? Does the label/thought ‘pain’ know anything about pain?
There was an interesting thing this morning eating breakfast, where i just kind of watched the "I" as i was buttering my sandwich, putting on cheese and putting into the mouth etc. Felt kind of strange cause the only think that took up the time, was just to watch. It felt as if something was watching myself doing all those things automatically. But i could not stay in that "zone" for long.
It’s great that you are watching things with interest, because there is an exercise I would like for you to do for an entire day, and to do it as often as possible.

Label each experience simply colour/ image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So when you are making breakfast in the morning:

Seeing a cup, simply = image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Feeling the heat of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the butter, cheese and bread, simply = taste
Thought about doing the dishes, simply = thought (Thoughts can be words and mental images)

Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Remember to answer all questions highlighted in blue text, and to answer them individually using the quote function.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:39 pm

Thank you for you're patience Kay. I think I have some problem understanding the questions fully and get even more caught up in my own ideas when trying to answer something that I did not fully understand. I will be more honest in the future if I simply don't get it. I know you probably just laugh at this but i feel bad when me not understanding is causing you more work and effort.
If you were to kick the toe and the sensation ‘ouchouch’ appeared…would the sensation itself know anything about the concept of pain? Does the label/thought ‘pain’ know anything about pain?
I really try to understand, but I have to be honest and say that I get locked when trying to explain what I think..the question if pain knows anything about pain makes me confused, cause I don't think that i ever thought about it before.. I used to just think that the sensation of pain is experienced through me, and that without me pain could not be expressed.

Quick question - There is no "I" that is picking up feelings/thoughts because if "I" would exist means that it has to be two, and two does not exist. Have I got that correctly? (Sort of how you explained previously for me)
Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
I will do this and get back to you when I have done it, I will give it a good try and really tune into it.


Thank you

Much love
Hesam

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:35 pm

Label each experience simply colour/ image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
Ate dinner and following experiences occurred:

Saw the food = Image/colour
Smelled the mushrooms on the pizza = Smell
Chewing the food = sound
Felt the cold juice running down my throat = sensation
The smoked mozzarella on the pizza = taste
Thought about starting to get full, and maybe should put some in the fridge = thoughts


Also took a walk at work and experienced:

Saw a Road sign = image/colour
Smelled The fresh air = smell
Hearing the footsteps when walking = sound
felt the cold wind in my face = sensation
someone pasted me who was smoking = taste
thought about how bad cigarettes are = thoughts

Did I understand the task correctly Kay? :)

Much love
Hesam

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:57 pm

Hi Kay, I just want to say that I just understood this, I get what you pointed at here, for some reason it was complete foreign for me the whole day, but i got it now!
The label “brain” is the actual experience (AE) of thought and not the AE of a “brain”.
The image/colour labelled as “brain” is the AE of colour and not the AE of a “brain”
The sensation labelled as “holding a brain” (if you were to hold one!) is the AE of sensation and not the AE of “holding a brain”.

So there is no actual experience of a “brain”, what is actually appearing is label + image/colour + sensation + thoughts ABOUT a brain.

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Re: What is that?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:34 pm

Hi Hesam.
I will be more honest in the future if I simply don't get it. I know you probably just laugh at this but i feel bad when me not understanding is causing you more work and effort.
Thank you, I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I have guided a few people now, so I understand the difficulty of this process in the beginning, so don’t ‘worry’ about me. Honesty is important and if you don’t get it, then you don’t get it. Just let me know and we will keep at it until you do get it! I am not going to lose patience and stop guiding you…so let go of that idea. I will let you know when I think you are not LOOKING so as to keep you on track.
If you were to kick the toe and the sensation ‘ouchouch’ appeared…would the sensation itself know anything about the concept of pain? Does the label/thought ‘pain’ know anything about pain?
I really try to understand, but I have to be honest and say that I get locked when trying to explain what I think..the question if pain knows anything about pain makes me confused, cause I don't think that i ever thought about it before.. I used to just think that the sensation of pain is experienced through me, and that without me pain could not be expressed.
What I was pointing to is that the sensation labelled ‘pain’ does not know anything about pain, nor is it aware that it is a sensation….correct? It is just a sensation and knows nothing. The same can be said of colour. Does the colour red know that it is a colour or that it is labelled ‘red’? Does a thought know that it is a thought?
Quick question - There is no "I" that is picking up feelings/thoughts because if "I" would exist means that it has to be two, and two does not exist. Have I got that correctly? (Sort of how you explained previously for me)
Yes…there is no separation so there is no ‘me’ and some 'thing'. And since there is no separate individual, how could something that doesn’t exist pick up feelings/thoughts or have anything attached to it?
So there is no actual experience of a “brain”, what is actually appearing is label + image/colour + sensation + thoughts ABOUT a brain.
I just want to say that I just understood this, I get what you pointed at here, for some reason it was complete foreign for me the whole day, but i got it now!
Terrific! This is all new to you..this way of LOOKING at ‘things’, the language etc, so some things will take a little time to understand/see. So be patient with yourself! There is no rush. Seeing happens when it happens and trying to force it only creates anxiety and frustration.
Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
I understand the task correctly Kay? :)
Yes, you certainly did! :) So how did you find doing this exercise, what did you notice?

Just keep on doing this exercise for a few more days to really familiarise yourself with actual experience. And watch how thought overlays actual experience with stories about AE.


Let’s continue further with LOOKING with AE.

Image

Have a look at an apple. When "looking at an apple", there's colour and a thought saying "apple"; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known. Right?

What about the content of thoughts, what thoughts describe?
Can "apple" be found in actual experience?
Is there really an apple, or only colour and a thought ABOUT "apple"?


And actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience ". What you know for sure and what is always here.

Much love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:02 pm

Hi Kay!
Just let me know and we will keep at it until you do get it! I am not going to lose patience and stop guiding you…so let go of that idea. I will let you know when I think you are not LOOKING so as to keep you on track.
Thank you :)
What I was pointing to is that the sensation labelled ‘pain’ does not know anything about pain, nor is it aware that it is a sensation….correct? It is just a sensation and knows nothing. The same can be said of colour. Does the colour red know that it is a colour or that it is labelled ‘red’? Does a thought know that it is a thought?
Correct, i understand what you explained here.

Terrific! This is all new to you..this way of LOOKING at ‘things’, the language etc, so some things will take a little time to understand/see. So be patient with yourself! There is no rush. Seeing happens when it happens and trying to force it only creates anxiety and frustration.
I will think about it, thank you Kay, I just get to excited sometimes (with sometimes I mean almost always haha)

So how did you find doing this exercise, what did you notice?
Well i have to say that everything felt much more easygoing, I did not think so much about what i was doing, it became like just focusing on what was the important parts of me eating or me taking a walk. When I broke it down like that there was no need for further explanation I felt like.

This morning as well doing the exercise for breakfast:
Had two eggs in the hand = Image/colour
Felt the hot eggs in my hands when done boiling= sensation
Cracked the eggshell = sound
Smelled the the toasted bread = smell
Ate my egg sandwich = taste
Thought about the washing machine being full = thought
Have a look at an apple. When "looking at an apple", there's colour and a thought saying "apple"; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known. Right?
Yes you are correct, nothing more can be AE out of that apple.
What about the content of thoughts, what thoughts describe?
Well the thought are coming and going regarding the apple, from questioning "is it tasting good if it was real", to thinking "that is a picture" its shape etc..there is trying to be many things ABOUT the thought of "apple".
Can "apple" be found in actual experience?
No, "apple" can't be found in AE.
Is there really an apple, or only colour and a thought ABOUT "apple"?
I would say the second, there is only colour and thought about "apple".

And actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought
It get's a little tricky here, but that's part of it I guess and it need its time. :)

Much love
Hesam

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Re: What is that?

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:42 pm

Good morning, Hesam,
What I was pointing to is that the sensation labelled ‘pain’ does not know anything about pain, nor is it aware that it is a sensation….correct? It is just a sensation and knows nothing. The same can be said of colour. Does the colour red know that it is a colour or that it is labelled ‘red’? Does a thought know that it is a thought?
Correct, i understand what you explained here.
Great! So what is it exactly that points to sensation and labels it ‘pain’ or labels colour ‘red’?
So how did you find doing this exercise, what did you notice?
Well i have to say that everything felt much more easygoing, I did not think so much about what i was doing, it became like just focusing on what was the important parts of me eating or me taking a walk. When I broke it down like that there was no need for further explanation I felt like.
And with the focusing on the eating and walking, was there also a noticing to how thoughts have something to say about everything? In other words, did you notice how thought likes to label everything and has a story about everything?
This morning as well doing the exercise for breakfast:
Had two eggs in the hand = Image/colour
Felt the hot eggs in my hands when done boiling= sensation
Cracked the eggshell = sound
Smelled the the toasted bread = smell
Ate my egg sandwich = taste
Thought about the washing machine being full = thought
“Ate my egg sandwich” is actually thought.
Eating/chewing/swallowing is the actual experience of sensation and not the AE of eating.
The sandwich is AE of image/colour and not the AE of a sandwich
The egg flavour is taste.
Can you see this?
And actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought
It get's a little tricky here, but that's part of it I guess and it need its time. :)
Yes, it seems a little tricky at the moment, but it will become clearer :)

You can see with your 'egg' breakfast how thought is the commentator/narrator of the whole experience.

The 'egg' itself is just image/colour
Can image/colour actually have a taste, smell, sensation or sound? And can an image/colour know anything about taste, smell, sensation, sound or thought?


Actual experience is everything except the content of thought. If thought contained experience then the word 'egg' would taste eggy, the word 'sweet' would taste sweet and the word 'hot' would be hot!

Much love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Hesam
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Re: What is that?

Postby Hesam » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:04 am

God morning Kay! (or rather good night here in Sweden :) )
So what is it exactly that points to sensation and labels it ‘pain’ or labels colour ‘red’?
I want to say its "me"?
And with the focusing on the eating and walking, was there also a noticing to how thoughts have something to say about everything? In other words, did you notice how thought likes to label everything and has a story about everything?
Yes indeed, the thoughts want to go beyond what is actually in front, want to size up the shapes of what the eyes see and so on. I was standing in the elevator before and just looked at a golden sign, and my thoughts where so many , and I was just trying to focus on it, like we did with the apple. So yes it is really like you say.
“Ate my egg sandwich” is actually thought.
Eating/chewing/swallowing is the actual experience of sensation and not the AE of eating.
The sandwich is AE of image/colour and not the AE of a sandwich
The egg flavour is taste.
Can you see this?
Oh wow, yes haha it made me laugh, cause it kind of showed me exactly how the mind does that all the time...So as you said its good to keep doing this everyday for some days, to learn to see this with AE without trying to hard.
So i should have written something like "tasted the bread" or "tasted the salt on the eggs" correct?
The 'egg' itself is just image/colour
Can image/colour actually have a taste, smell, sensation or sound? And can an image/colour know anything about taste, smell, sensation, sound or thought?
No it can't , image/colour is just that. The "apple" for example, the AE of color/image would have no idea of anything else than just the AE of image/colour (even though it does not know about it self, as red being red). But as I see it is these AE of image/colour, taste, smell, sensation and sound are all in its own lanes, and can't "talk" with each other, however thought comes in and tries to put a thread through all lanes, and bunch them up. Do i make sense?

Have a great day Kay!
Love, Hesam


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