I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

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leaf
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I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:45 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
After many years involvement with a Buddhist group, I have come to realise that " practice" is not unhelpful but also not going to get me to see through the sense of self. I have over this period of time questioned and detached myself from the Buddhist community and at one time I attended The Landmark Forum. In fact this experience helped me to see in a much more direct way how the story of my life was constructed and how the past story was directing the future.I got that there was no meaning, or purpose to life. And also that what is, is what is. It made a radical shift with regard to perception of life and informed a change of relationship to myself, but "i" still carried on. It is only in now that I have become acquainted with different teachers though still primarily part of the Buddhist Community I became involved with in 1996. It felt like a veil was lifted to come across Adayashanti, Gangaji, Tony Parsons, Rodney Smith and others. I have contact with people who have done LU and listened to talks, read books but have decided to register here after some exceptionally strong experiences of what would be termed Dukkha. The guidance is sought to gain more clarity, or direction, and to explore with the help of a guide.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
What am I looking for....nothing. If that were possible. I don't know. Maybe it would be like untying the knots. Stopping. There is a tiredness of all this pursuit. Letting go might be it. I like my life and there is enjoyment, delight and beauty. I don't think I need to do this, maybe it is just..... lets see. I would like to stop trying to be somebody. The heaviness. I would like to identify less with my past.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
One of the most interesting experiences I have had is when I first (and overtime subsequently) visit the Rothko Room, at The Tate Gallery, there is a resonance. I stumbled upon Buddhism but felt drawn as they seemed "nice" people. At the time I was in a dysfunctional marriage and I had read Scot Peck......I had a notion changing myself would change others. I sought the "wisdom" to be more effective, but I didn't know what it meant. I said it, I remember saying it but didn't know where it came from. I now think of Wisdom as insight but not as an attainment. I have recently become Ordained into a Buddhist Community and am wondering why. I am not a great meditator, but do have a mind I can stabilise and quieten.I like gardening and find it quietens "me". I have never found identification with a figure as some Buddhist do either. But enjoy aesthete sensibility.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 11

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:12 pm

Dear Leaf,

Thank you for the thoughtful introduction and welcome to Liberation Unleashed! :)

I'm a guide here and we can explore this together, to see what's to be discovered.

Let me know if that's ok with you, and we can take a step.

With kind thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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leaf
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:09 pm

Hello John!
Thank you. It would be very good to take a step and see what is to be discovered.
I really appreciate you being a guide for me.
Let's go.
Kind regards,
Leaf.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:35 am

Dear Leaf,

Untying a knot is an excellent metaphor!

Let's approach this directly. For the knot is called 'self', 'me', 'persona', 'myself'. It is characterised. It has a certain record of school achievement, things it did well, things it didn't do well. It has aspirations, disappointments, dreams, concerns. All these are contained, owned by 'me'. It is contained in the body, owns the body, is the body. It thinks, speaks, eats and farts.

It has character. It is a person. It is reading this.

Such is the nature of this gloriously cunning perception.

This is the target on which we place the crosshairs.

You see it?

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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leaf
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:43 pm

Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:11 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
After many years involvement with a Buddhist group, I have come to realise that " practice" is not unhelpful but also not going to get me to see through the sense of self. I have over this period of time questioned and detached myself from the Buddhist community and at one time I attended The Landmark Forum. In fact this experience helped me to see in a much more direct way how the story of my life was constructed and how the past story was directing the future.I got that there was no meaning, or purpose to life. And also that what is, is what is. It made a radical shift with regard to perception of life and informed a change of relationship to myself, but "i" still carried on. It is only in now that I have become acquainted with different teachers though still primarily part of the Buddhist Community I became involved with in 1996. It felt like a veil was lifted to come across Adayashanti, Gangaji, Tony Parsons, Rodney Smith and others. I have contact with people who have done LU and listened to talks, read books but have decided to register here after some exceptionally strong experiences of what would be termed Dukkha. The guidance is sought to gain more clarity, or direction, and to explore with the help of a guide.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
What am I looking for....nothing. If that were possible. I don't know. Maybe it would be like untying the knots. Stopping. There is a tiredness of all this pursuit. Letting go might be it. I like my life and there is enjoyment, delight and beauty. I don't think I need to do this, maybe it is just..... lets see. I would like to stop trying to be somebody. The heaviness. I would like to identify less with my past.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
One of the most interesting experiences I have had is when I first (and overtime subsequently) visit the Rothko Room, at The Tate Gallery, there is a resonance. I stumbled upon Buddhism but felt drawn as they seemed "nice" people. At the time I was in a dysfunctional marriage and I had read Scot Peck......I had a notion changing myself would change others. I sought the "wisdom" to be more effective, but I didn't know what it meant. I said it, I remember saying it but didn't know where it came from. I now think of Wisdom as insight but not as an attainment. I have recently become Ordained into a Buddhist Community and am wondering why. I am not a great meditator, but do have a mind I can stabilise and quieten.I like gardening and find it quietens "me". I have never found identification with a figure as some Buddhist do either. But enjoy aesthete sensibility.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 11
I see that all this is happening now and that my
Past becomes a story. Some of it seems real but
Interpretation and memory invent thoughts and seem to weave what is me. And create a drama!
I seemingly understand this. And am now ready to see the truth, no matter what. I accept the invitation.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:42 am

Dear Leaf,
I see that all this is happening now and that my
Past becomes a story. Some of it seems real but
Interpretation and memory invent thoughts and seem to weave what is me. And create a drama!
I seemingly understand this. And am now ready to see the truth, no matter what. I accept the invitation.
Not interested in seems and seemingly.

Do you have a grasp of the supposed 'Leaf' reading this? Yes or no?

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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leaf
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:43 pm

Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:23 pm

Hello John,
Yes I do have have a grasp of the supposed "Leaf"
Leaf is sitting here and typing this reply.
Thanks.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:47 pm

Hello John,
Yes I do have have a grasp of the supposed "Leaf"
Leaf is sitting here and typing this reply.
Thanks.
Let Leaf speak for a minute.

Leaf, do you realise what you are getting into here?
Namely, your dethroning.
The realisation that life has been a pretence thus far.
Its not pleasant, and when Leaf isn't there holding court, what will become of your host?

Thank you,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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leaf
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:43 pm

Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:13 pm

Hello John......
Yes it is difficult to to let go of ...it has been such a habit.
And there has been investment in that pretence. Nothing to be gained though.
The supposed Leaf experiences with a body and perceives objects, sounds, sensations.
Leaf makes contact through senses.

It is a big shift to make, to let go of control. It is.

regards
Leaf

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:49 pm

Hello John......
Yes it is difficult to to let go of ...it has been such a habit.
And there has been investment in that pretence. Nothing to be gained though.
The supposed Leaf experiences with a body and perceives objects, sounds, sensations.
Leaf makes contact through senses.

It is a big shift to make, to let go of control. It is.
Where does Leaf seem most engaged in the body? Where is Leaf HQ?

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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leaf
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:43 pm

Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:27 am

Morning John,
Leaf HQ is in the mind, or thoughts and memory, the head. Everything seems propelled from there.
The senses, and sensations of taste, touch, seeing, hearing bring aliveness to Leaf. Visual being most important.
But these experiences are that Leaf enjoys, or doesn't depending on context.

Thanks
Leaf

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:05 pm

Morning John,
Leaf HQ is in the mind, or thoughts and memory, the head. Everything seems propelled from there.
The senses, and sensations of taste, touch, seeing, hearing bring aliveness to Leaf. Visual being most important.
But these experiences are that Leaf enjoys, or doesn't depending on context.
Good stuff. Most feel the person, the supposed Leaf, the characterised Me, to be somehow resident in the head, whether it be called mind, or whatever; sticking to the everyday experience, the head is where its at.

Now, let's explore this head space for evidence of Leaf.

Let's take a memory. Say, the image of your first pet, or car, or front door.

Is there a Leaf inside a memory such as this?

Thank you,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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leaf
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:43 pm

Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:24 pm

Hi John,
What there is with a memory of my first pet......is fragmented thoughts, things arise like name, colour and vague image that is cat like, resembles what I know cats are like.
Leaf only arises at a difficult time when the loss of the cat occurred. And I could go into quite a lot of story with that.
My first car eludes me, except it was gold sort of colour.....Leaf is there but only as it being "my" company car, and the job I did, the company I worked for.... that seems to be a lot about Leaf but not the car. And a Leaf in the past.

Thanks
Leaf

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:52 pm

Hi John,
What there is with a memory of my first pet......is fragmented thoughts, things arise like name, colour and vague image that is cat like, resembles what I know cats are like.
Leaf only arises at a difficult time when the loss of the cat occurred. And I could go into quite a lot of story with that.
My first car eludes me, except it was gold sort of colour.....Leaf is there but only as it being "my" company car, and the job I did, the company I worked for.... that seems to be a lot about Leaf but not the car. And a Leaf in the past.
Thanks. Now, as you read this sentence, continue to read along, whilst at the same time, attend to the eyes, and the space behind the eyes, and notice:

is there a reader of this sentence?
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
leaf
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:43 pm

Re: I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

Postby leaf » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:30 am

No, it is happening all together, John.
Leaf has dissolved, it is quieter.
What that is I can't say. A stillness.


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