Can i request Xain ?

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Swa
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Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:14 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
ha, i think its good luck it showed up for me. i was so fat up with the search and all the spiritual circuses ,that even though it took me some time to get aqquainted with LU ,as it seemed too simple to be true .I had some very clear insights into the illusion of the person reading through treads. however these insights were so fragile that thought and spiritual concepts over rode those quickly,and i realized i need someone simple and straight forward, who stands in truth, to guide me through. So here i am.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
i just want to know what is true.
and thereby see through assumptions i have taken to be facts.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:

decades of meditation retreats , satsangs ,living in spiritual comunities/ashrams, and only in the last 5 years ,by realizing my spiritual dream and so ready to cut the crap into the new age non duality teachings, reading books ,practise inquiry and for one year reading treads on LU .
Which i find to be most to the point.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?:
11

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Xain
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Xain » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi Swa

Welcome to the LU Forum, and thanks for requesting me.
Do you have a preferred name I can call you from now on? Or would Swa be OK?
Ha, i think its good luck it showed up for me.
That makes me smile - I remember back when I first started questioning this stuff, there was literally no-one I could speak to or anyone who would understand this sort of thing. Let's see what we can find together :)
It took me some time to get aqquainted with LU ,as it seemed too simple to be true
You are right - It IS simple - So very simple that people completely miss it. The problem is that we are so used to assumptions of how life is and 'what we are' that we never question these beliefs. The beliefs themselves are self-reinforcing and circular in nature which makes them difficult to 'see through'.
i just want to know what is true.
and thereby see through assumptions i have taken to be facts
Bang on the money! Sounds fair to me.
That's a great position and reference to start from.

The only thing I will be addressing is one thing. That is to realise that there is no inherently existing separate self, normally referred to as 'I' or 'me' (or 'Swa' if you want). That this 'person' is entirely a thought construction and always was.
To get you to a position where you are clear without a shadow of a doubt that this is true.
To do this, I will have to ask that you be completely honest with me (and indeed honest with yourself).
I'll try to write once a day - I ask for you to do the same - If you can't due to stuff going on in life, just let me know.

Do you have any expectations of 'what life will be like afterwards' or any ideas what such an achievement may bring?
And only in the last 5 years ,by realizing my spiritual dream
Can you elaborate a little on what you mean here? I'm not following you.

As guiding goes, I tend not to use any fancy spiritual pointers or talk. I try to make things as simple as possible.
Not that there is anything 'wrong' with non-dual spiritual talk - But it can often makes things more difficult to grasp than they are already, and spiritual phrases can mean different things to different people.

Xain ♥

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Swa
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:47 am

Hi Xain,
Welcome to the LU Forum, and thanks for requesting me.
Do you have a preferred name I can call you from now on? Or would Swa be OK?
The honour is mine really ,thanks for accepting me.
Yes Swa is ok.
I will have to ask that you be completely honest with me (and indeed honest with yourself).
I'll try to write once a day - I ask for you to do the same - If you can't due to stuff going on in life, just let me know.
Totally agreed.
Do you have any expectations of 'what life will be like afterwards' or any ideas what such an achievement may bring?
Like I said I just want to know what’s true and that’s really all, although as a kid when i realized Santa was not real, trying to be a good boy so that I would not find a bag of salt in my shoe and any thoughts about Santa completely vanished.
And after when I did found a bag of salt in my shoe(still wanted the goodies) I could laugh or be angry and urge my mam to go buy something sweet,
so that would be an expectation , having less and not to be bothered by thoughts that do arise.
And only in the last 5 years ,by realizing my spiritual dream
Can you elaborate a little on what you mean here? I'm not following you.
What I meant by ’realizing my spiritual dream’ was that I literally was dreaming ,working hard to become this fully aware compassionate enlightened being ,that everyone would love of course ;)
As guiding goes, I tend not to use any fancy spiritual pointers or talk. I try to make things as simple as possible.
Very appreciated.

Dear regards,Swa

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Xain
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Xain » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:57 pm

Like I said I just want to know what’s true and that’s really all
Good. That's definitely possible.
Many come here with lofty expectations like permanent bliss, achieving a special 'state' or becoming a special person.
These expectations must be put aside, because they all have an 'I' component. 'I will be in Bliss', 'I will be special'.
Is there is no real 'I', then what are all these expectations clinging to?
Like I said I just want to know what’s true and that’s really all, although as a kid when i realized Santa was not real
The Santa Claus analogy is one we often use here.
When Santa is realised to not be real, does anything really change?
Do you become a new 'Non Santa Believing' person with special powers? ;)
It's the same with 'I' - When you realise that there is no inherently existing 'I' here and never has been, and that it's all been based on assumptions and misperceptions . . . that's it! You just realise that.
What I meant by ’realizing my spiritual dream’ was that I literally was dreaming ,working hard to become this fully aware compassionate enlightened being ,that everyone would love of course
There's nothing wrong with working hard but holding on to these beliefs strongly come at a price.
'Why don't they love me yet', 'When I'm enlightened, then it will all be ok', 'I'm not good enough yet' etc
All with an 'I' or 'me' component.

As mentioned previously, the guidance is for one thing only. Please put aside all expectations other than this one realisation that I mention.
Also, please put aside all special spiritual phrases, ideas and teachings. They won't be needed here at all, and may only serve to confuse us both. Just address everything on a simple basic level of understanding.

Do you have any other questions at this time, before we set sail?

Xain ♥

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Swa
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:38 am

Hi Xain,
If there is no real 'I', then what are all these expectations clinging to?
yes, very good point, they need an ‘I’ to make any sense and when I look deeper into this that means that counts for any aversion ,judgement , like and dislike ,pretty amazing!
When Santa is realised to not be real, does anything really change?
not really ,I just don’t take thoughts about Santa very serious.
Do you become a new 'Non Santa Believing' person with special powers? ;)
no
Also, please put aside all special spiritual phrases, ideas and teachings. They won't be needed here at all, and may only serve to confuse us both. Just address everything on a simple basic level of understanding.
Ok ,I get that.
Do you have any other questions at this time, before we set sail?
no questions, lets set sail!

Thank you

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Xain
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Xain » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:45 pm

Ok, the anchors in and we have clearance from the harbour master to leave port.

First of all, let's address what you current believe about yourself.
I want you to tell me what you believe the word 'I' or 'me' points to - What it does - What it means.
As mentioned previously, approach this from a very basic level.

So for example, do you believe that 'I am person sat down looking at a screen and reading words off it' right now?
'I am this body - I (this body) is currently experiencing the world around it (the body is seeing, hearing etc).'
'I can control this body''
'I also have a mind - I experience my own thoughts - I can control the thoughts to some extent'
'I have free-will and I can choose what to do (I chose to begin this dialogue with you) - I control my fingers when I type - I choose what to say in my replies''

These are some ideas which I believe the average person would agree to, but feel free to bring up your own ideas about stuff if you want to or reject any that I've written if you don't agree or it doesn't make sense.

What is your current belief opinion of what 'I' is'? (On a basic level of understanding)

Xain ♥

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Swa
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:50 pm

Hi Xain,
Ok, the anchors in and we have clearance from the harbour master to leave port.
Exciting :)
First of all, let's address what you current believe about yourself.
I want you to tell me what you believe the word 'I' or 'me' points to - What it does - What it means.
As mentioned previously, approach this from a very basic level.
Ok, thanks for reminding me to keep this basic. your example pretty much sums it up. there are some additional beliefs I gathered like I am awareness (sorry but don’t know what other word to use). So i have replaced 'the person' for 'awareness' and thereby; the body etc. appears within me and so 'I am not this body’ but do have a body a.s.o.
I have a pretty good understanding of the non dual nature of ‘reality’,but old average beliefs mixed with the non dual beliefs left me in an greater confusion and conflicting ideas.
I truly don’t know who I am
So maybe best to consider me the average person.

Thanks for your guidance.

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Xain
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Xain » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:08 pm

There are some additional beliefs I gathered like I am awareness (sorry but don’t know what other word to use). So i have replaced 'the person' for 'awareness' and thereby; the body etc. appears within me and so 'I am not this body’ but do have a body a.s.o.
I have a pretty good understanding of the non dual nature of ‘reality’,but old average beliefs mixed with the non dual beliefs left me in an greater confusion and conflicting ideas.
What you are describing is what Advaita teachs and what teachers like Rupert Spira use in their descriptions.
Nothing wrong with these at all, and it gives a good perspective to shift away from the idea of a separate body here, and a separate world 'out there'.

However, this model or way of considering things won't be of any use here in my guidance because we are not examining things intellectually, we are aiming for a realisation.

The guidance requires honesty about what you TRULY believe, and this description above might drag us away from that.
For example, it's no good saying 'I am awareness' whilst TRULY BELIEVING that you are 'this body here'.
Also, in the worst case scenario it might be just a shifting of wording which doesn't help at all.
'Awareness is going to go out and buy a newspaper'
'The reply was written by awareness'

I don't want to discount Advaita or the teachers that use that path - Not at all - It's all very useful stuff.
I'm just saying that it won't be any use here in the guidance, and trying to explain why not.
I have a pretty good understanding of the non dual nature of ‘reality’,but old average beliefs mixed with the non dual beliefs left me in an greater confusion and conflicting ideas.
It sounds like the place I was in before coming to LU. I had mentally descontructed a lot of stuff and was intellectually clear on many things, but hadn't had a deep 'realisation' - I know now why that was - It was because I couldn't see my own stumbling blocks - They had to be shown to me - Pointed out, so I could see them. That's what I am here for as your guide :)

Please put all the non-dual ideas aside for this guidance if you can.
I'll let you absorb that and let me know what you think before continuing on.

Xain ♥

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Swa
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:39 pm

hi Xain,
It sounds like the place I was in before coming to LU. I had mentally descontructed a lot of stuff and was intellectually clear on many things, but hadn't had a deep 'realisation' - I know now why that was - It was because I couldn't see my own stumbling blocks - They had to be shown to me - Pointed out, so I could see them. That's what I am here for as your guide :)
Yes sounds like me, and that’s exactly why I am here, and more so requested you as my guide as when I read your former guided threads ,where you showed a clear down to earth and no BS approach.
Please put all the non-dual ideas aside for this guidance if you can.
I'll let you absorb that and let me know what you think before continuing on.
I will put all ideas and any understanding on the side and be like a spring chicken,lets sail.

Thanks a lot :)

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Xain
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Xain » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:08 pm

Ok, let us first address 'I am this body here'.

This belief is usually held because it is believed that the senses are operated from this body.
That the body is 'doing' seeing, hearing, feeling etc
That there is a body 'here' seeing a world 'out there'.

Let's begin with the sense of 'seeing'.
For this exercise, please answer from only this sense. Don't answer from what you find using the others senses, or from what you guess or assume is the answer. Only what you find in 'seeing'.
Answering from what you FIND (or perhaps don't find) is going to be critical in this guidance.

We'll start this one with eyes closed.
Close your eyes so that you see darkness / blackness etc (it doesn't matter really if there is a reddy glow from bright lights in the room or maybe sparkly hazy stuff being seen - We'll just use the term 'darkness' for the description to make things simpler).

1) Can you confirm that there is no longer a room being seen etc, but that the only thing that is seen is black / darkness (with eyes closed).
2) Ok, now inquire in 'seeing' is there anything more to be found than the darkness which I described above (what is seen).
3) Can you find anything in 'seeing' that is performing a function called 'seeing', or is the only thing to be found what we described above (what is seen)?
4) Can an 'I', a body, a pair of eyes or a brain be found that is doing a function called 'seeing', or is the only thing to be found 'what is seen'?

Let me know what you find.

Xain ♥

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Swa
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:19 pm

Hi Xain
We'll start this one with eyes closed.
Close your eyes so that you see darkness / blackness etc (it doesn't matter really if there is a reddy glow from bright lights in the room or maybe sparkly hazy stuff being seen - We'll just use the term 'darkness' for the description to make things simpler).

1) Can you confirm that there is no longer a room being seen etc, but that the only thing that is seen is black / darkness (with eyes closed).
Yes I can confirm
2) Ok, now inquire in 'seeing' is there anything more to be found than the darkness which I described above (what is seen).
No there is only the darkness and nothing more to be found
3) Can you find anything in 'seeing' that is performing a function called 'seeing', or is the only thing to be found what we described above (what is seen)?
There is only the seen.
4) Can an 'I', a body, a pair of eyes or a brain be found that is doing a function called 'seeing', or is the only thing to be found 'what is seen'?
The only thing to be found is what is seen. no 'i' ,no body ,no eyes.


Xain its very late here,we are 7hrs apart, i will look for your post by morning, thank you so much for guiding, truly appreciated :)

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Xain
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Xain » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:54 pm

Xain its very late here,we are 7hrs apart, i will look for your post by morning, thank you so much for guiding, truly appreciated :)
No problems - Just reply when you can - There is no particular time-frame for this guidance, other than to try to reply at least once a day to keep the momentum and interest going. I will reply whenever I am free.
The only thing to be found is what is seen. no 'i' ,no body ,no eyes.
Ok, Good.
So let's take the phrase / idea 'I am seeing'.
Is the 'I' being described in this sentence something that can be found doing the seeing?
Or is it more like an idea or an assumption / a belief?

Xain ♥

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Swa
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:09 am

Hi Xain,
Ok, Good.
So let's take the phrase / idea 'I am seeing'.
Is the 'I' being described in this sentence something that can be found doing the seeing?
Or is it more like an idea or an assumption / a belief?
With eyes closed it is clear that ‘I am seeing’ is a thought only and and so could be called an assumption /belief.

But i suppose I can open my eyes by now ;) ,and with eyes open and having the screen saver come on there appears the reflection of my face containing two eyes. So the ‘I am seeing’ turns in quite an credible story of a body with a head containing two eyes looking at a computer screen. But I will stop right here and not go in speculation until I hear from you.

Dear regards,

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Xain
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Xain » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:06 am

But i suppose I can open my eyes by now ;) ,and with eyes open and having the screen saver come on there appears the reflection of my face containing two eyes. So the ‘I am seeing’ turns in quite an credible story of a body with a head containing two eyes looking at a computer screen. But I will stop right here and not go in speculation until I hear from you.
Ok, you've raced ahead to 'eyes open' but we can address that now.

Is 'head with two eyes and a computer screen' what is doing the seeing? Or what is being seen?
Ignore speculation here. Speculation and assumptions is what we are trying to get past :)

What 'I' is seeing the 'screensaver, reflection, body, face, eyes'?
Is there an 'I' to be found performing an activity called 'seeing'?
Don't speculate on what the answer might be, what can you FIND?

Xain ♥

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Swa
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Re: Can i request Xain ?

Postby Swa » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:13 am

Hi Xain
Ok, you've raced ahead to 'eyes open' but we can address that now.
sorry just its so exciting
Is 'head with two eyes and a computer screen' what is doing the seeing? Or what is being seen?
Ignore speculation here. Speculation and assumptions is what we are trying to get past :)
Ok , head + eyes reflected in a computer screen is what is being seen. no doubt about that.

But Pls excuse me// thoughts are screaming loud!! (eyes DO seeing, and screen + reflection IS seen +++). Rightly so this is pure speculation, as I don’t find eyes doing an action/seeing and all there is, IS clearly only what is seen, so there is conflict here.
Is it not reasonable to expect that thought is in allignement with what is seen?

Am I racing ahead again?
What 'I' is seeing the 'screensaver, reflection, body, face, eyes'?
Is there an 'I' to be found performing an activity called 'seeing'?
Don't speculate on what the answer might be, what can you FIND?
I cannot find an ‘I’, (but I do find lots of thoughts ‘about’).

Much thanks


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