Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

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Mac2
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Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:25 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
The unfolding of the universe, and or a google search.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?
I do not know what I am looking for, and I have no prior expectations. I have read the gate crashers book and quite a few of the forum posts. It all seems to ring true and I love the no bullshit approach LU takes. I am not religious or spiritual and have never really talked about these things before. I feel some fear arising typing this, I find this interesting, what am I hiding. Maybe I just need scratching to see if there are any layers of skin left that I cannot see.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
3.5 Years ago I had an un-asked for, traumatic, euphoric, Kundalini type experience lasting 6 weeks. This sparked an interest into oneness, self inquiry type questioning. Since then I've been observing myself trying to discover what/who am I. As far as teachers go, Mooji and Krishnamurti seem to resonate with me the most, although I am quite suspicious of teachers and Gurus and feel this is a path you walk alone.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?
10

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Sarah7
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Sarah7 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:25 am

Hey Mac
Im Sarah and Id be happy to speak with you.
You've looked around out site? You know what we do here?
3.5 Years ago I had an un-asked for, traumatic, euphoric, Kundalini type experience lasting 6 weeks.
Are you wanting this back? Permanent?
Looking forward to speaking with you.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Mac2
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:04 am

Hi Sarah
Yes it would be great to talk, thankyou :)
Yes I've looked around the site and understand what you do here.
" Are you wanting this back? Permanent? " No, states come and go. It's an experience I could not forget though.
Cheers, Mac

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Sarah7
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Sarah7 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:07 pm

Hey Mac
House keeping first:
In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:

1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send? Ok.

Lets get going then! Im not ignoring what you have wrote - but I do need to figure out where you are first. OK

How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does?

In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Mac2
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:47 am

Hi Sarah
Thanks for that, the link to the article didn't work. It just said "page not found", but I will do my best to answer your questions.
At first glance there does seem to be a sense of self at the centre of experience, but upon investigation it cannot be found. It has no shape, colour ,texture, size, or fixed position in the body. It feels like all the data from the senses is experienced together giving a sense of "self ", but if each individual piece of sense data is removed there would be nothing underneath.

I would say most of these are born out of the conditioned mind and Identity, creating concepts and thoughts about reality. I/We tend to overlay these thoughts/concepts onto our direct experience of reality as a means of trying to understand it. But this is just my idea about reality, not reality itself. Again at first glance this sense of " self " seems to be in control, but on examination it's an after effect of processes that have already happened. For example the thought "I'm hungry, get some food" arises, after the body/brain has already decided this. The self is not experienced in deep sleep.
No I cannot find it, there's an overall sense of existing, being. When I search for this sense of being it has no particular location or reference point. It's just the multitude of individual bits of sense data being received at once with the thought process running in the mind.
No, nothing could be said to exist outside of the present moment, as absolute reality can only exist in the now.
It's hard to say just from direct experience if anything is permanent right now, there is just what is happening right now. I have to go to memory and thought, which tells me change is the law of life and nothing is permanent.
Thanks for the great questions.
Cheers, Mac

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Mac2
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:53 am

Bugger, I seem to have messed up the quote function, sorry. Hopefully my answers are clear enough on there own, if not let me know and I'll try again.
Cheers, Mac

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Sarah7
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:03 pm

Hi Mac
Try this: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html
If it doesn't work from here - copy it into your search engine and see if that works.
No I cannot find it, there's an overall sense of existing, being.
Excellent! We wont be questioning this - but everything else - absolutely! :)

Do you intentionally bring any of these thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and how?
Can you send them away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Can thought think?
Is there is a thought that you can control?
What can a thought do – what power does it have?
You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Sarah7
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:05 pm

If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Mac2
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:15 am

Hi Sarah
Do you intentionally bring any of these thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and how?
Thoughts arrive on their own, if you are doing some type of analytical thinking there is a feeling of more control but this is just thoughts responding to a particular stimuli.
Can you send them away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Maybe not send them away, but if there is no identification with the thought it leaves on it's own. I do have occasions where a type of sensation arises in the mind prior to the vocal speech thought. The vocal speech thought feels like it gets suppressed before it arises and there is action on the thought without it ever being put into words in the mind.
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
No I can not predict what thought will be next, well unless I rig it (set it up) prior to the experiment, lol.
Can thought think?
No, just the thought process.
Is there is a thought that you can control?
No,
What can a thought do – what power does it have?
None, if it is not identified with and/or acted upon.
You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?
You only experience a reaction to any attachment you may have to the content of a thought. The content in itself is not reality.
Thanks again,
Cheers, Mac :)

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Sarah7
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:38 pm

Hi Mac
Maybe not send them away, but if there is no identification with the thought it leaves on it's own. I do have occasions where a type of sensation arises in the mind prior to the vocal speech thought. The vocal speech thought feels like it gets suppressed before it arises and there is action on the thought without it ever being put into words in the mind.
Do you identify on purpose?
Do you choose not to identify?

Is there any area where you feel you are in control? E.g. Free will, decisions etc
Hugs Sarah
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Mac2
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:39 am

Hi Sarah, hope your weekends going well.
Do you identify on purpose?
Do you choose not to identify?
No, the thought process identifies, or chooses (if I can use that word) not to identify.
Is there any area where you feel you are in control? E.g. Free will, decisions etc
No.
It's funny I thought of a few variations of answers to this question, but then just laugh at why I felt the need to answer it less directly than just "No"
Cheers, Mac

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Sarah7
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Sarah7 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:34 pm

Hey Mac
Lol to bottom answer!
So - Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Lets have a little look at sensation and separation. We are going to start with seeing.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Mac2
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:45 am

Hi Sarah
I might tackle these tomorrow if that's ok, long day at work. The short answer is "No" and "just seeing" lol, but there's quite a few questions there so I should answer in more individual detail.
Cheers, Mac

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Sarah7
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:51 pm

No probs!
S xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Mac2
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Re: Hi :) Can somebody scratch me

Postby Mac2 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:58 am

Hi Sarah
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
No
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
No
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
No, decisions are either thought or automatic.
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
No, just the thought process. No thinker.
Lets have a little look at sensation and separation. We are going to start with seeing.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening?
Just seeing

Nooooo I've somehow lost the last half my reply :(

I'll have to redo the rest of the questions tomorrow. Must sleep.

Cheers, Mac


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