Freedom from me

[Inger]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I took a theta healing class 2 years ago, where I learned about non-duality. It was recommended to read a book called "End your story, start your life" by Jim Drevers. He recently wrote another book and mentioned the "Gateless Gatecrashers", so I ordered it immediately and I have been reading it and the app and watching Liberation Unleashed youtube channel.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I would greatly appreciate going through the process to free myself. I feel it would be different embodying it vs. reading and hearing what others say. I desire to own/live the experience of liberation, in which I already know I have, however there is a bit stuck in here, frustration that I can not find.
I say to myself everyday, borrowed from Matt Kahn and Jim "once I thought I was a person in space, now I know I am space as a person, my true nature is consciousness/awareness expressed as this mind, body personality named Inger."

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I have been on the spiritual seeking journey for over 10 years now. I have taken every tele summit class, books and seminars. Everything from Abraham Hicks to mystery school and then some...

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready).: 11

[Sarah7]

Hi Inger
I'm Sarah and I'd be happy to speak with you.
Have you looked around our site? Did you know what we do here?
Looking forward to speaking with you.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Inger]

Hi Sarah,
Thank you for the welcome. Yes, I know you all give guidance to liberation. "I" look forward to experiencing the forum.

With great appreciation to all of you!

[Sarah7]

Hey Inger!
House keeping first:
In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:

1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send? Ok.

Lets get going then! Im not ignoring what you have wrote - but I do need to figure out where you are first. OK

How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does?

In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Inger]

Hi Sarah,

I understand Self is spacious, expansive, infinite. "I" consider this mind,body, personality/ego as a guest house named and labeled Inger, who now has roles she is playing out on the stage of life. I close my eyes and see the inner light, hear inner sound and feel inner space.

This body feels better when it is eating healthy and exercising everyday. I understand that we are energy and self is an illusion.

Thank you for your patience with my response, I had family visiting which made me feel separate. I feel especially separate when I think of paying the bills that are due now or rent that is coming up or daughter to feed. Feelings of guilt, shame and judgement. I felt the tension of stress in this body's shoulder and back. I understand the concept of no self, yet I still have the auto loop in my mind as l am a single mom that has to be a responsible adult.

I feel I am in both worlds. When I read the GG book or Look or the app, I am reminded of my illusion. Yet it doesn't pay the bills and I have to ask my family for help. It is mind tennis match. I am aware of the anxiety that the self creates. The self manipulates and tries to figure it out, even not being a self. "I" realize how "myself" has played the role of victim and the patterns it has created.

I don't experience self when I run, swim, bike, have fun, music, see, hear, feel the inner presence or sleep.

"Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?"

No.

"Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does?"
No. I know it, yet don't embody it.

"In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?"
No.

[Sarah7]

Morning Inger

I understand Self is spacious, expansive, infinite. "I" consider this mind,body, personality/ego as a guest house named and labeled Inger, who now has roles she is playing out on the stage of life. I close my eyes and see the inner light, hear inner sound and feel inner space.

Can I just check. Is this what is experienced? Or thought to be?

If experienced, is this expansive spaciousness ever not there? Have a look through the day, keep checking to see.

I understand that we are energy and self is an illusion.

Again, thought or 'know'?

I had family visiting which made me feel separate. I feel especially separate when I think of paying the bills that are due now or rent that is coming up or daughter to feed. Feelings of guilt, shame and judgement.

What makes you feel separate? Pick this apart, what is it made up of? Thoughts? Anything else?

Do you bring the feelings of guilt and shame?
Are they yours? Do you own them?
Do you send them away or control them in any way?
Are these feelings heavy with thoughts? Are they telling stories?

I understand the concept of no self, yet I still have the auto loop in my mind as l am a single mom that has to be a responsible adult.

Do you expect this auto loop to disappear if successful here? Do you do this loop on purpose? Is this loop also heavy with thoughts? Are these yours also?

Yet it doesn't pay the bills and I have to ask my family for help. It is mind tennis match. I am aware of the anxiety that the self creates. The self manipulates and tries to figure it out, even not being a self. "I" realize how "myself" has played the role of victim and the patterns it has created.

Is this all thought?
What can a thought do? What power does it have?

I don't experience self when I run, swim, bike, have fun, music, see, hear, feel the inner presence or sleep.

Well noticed!
No worries of something gets in the way of responding.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Inger]

Can I just check. Is this what is experienced? Or thought to be?

If experienced, is this expansive spaciousness ever not there? Have a look through the day, keep checking to see.

It is always experienced!

Again, thought or 'know'?

I know they are always Thoughts.

What makes you feel separate? Pick this apart, what is it made up of? Thoughts? Anything else?

Do you bring the feelings of guilt and shame?
Are they yours? Do you own them?
Do you send them away or control them in any way?
Are these feelings heavy with thoughts? Are they telling stories?

I feel separate when "I" think I want control, approval or security in life. No they aren't my thoughts or feelings. I cant control or send them away like I can't the clouds in the sky. All I can do is experience them, like I experience the clouds floating in the blue sky.

Do you expect this auto loop to disappear if successful here? Do you do this loop on purpose? Is this loop also heavy with thoughts? Are these yours also?

Yes, I expect to be liberated from being attached to 'MY' thoughts. I know I will have them, but they are thoughts. I don't know if I loop on purpose, just to be here to learn from them. They aren't my thoughts.

Is this all thought?
What can a thought do? What power does it have?

So, if there is no free will because there is no conscious, subconscious, super conscious then what is directing me to have or choose to have new thoughts about being liberated from my thoughts. This being is experiencing observing others that have wealth conscious thoughts and others stuck in their groundhog day. I guess both are thinking they are self and manifest these outcomes. They too are powerful stories, illusion. Our physical bodies hold on to the toxic thoughts creating dis-ease and depression.

Do 'I" have a choice to know the thoughts are just thoughts, is that choosing? Or is it 'life-ing/beingness choosing the choice in this mind body personality labeled Inger to experience infinite outcomes to experience life?

Hugs xxx

[Sarah7]

Hey Inger

I don't know if I loop on purpose,

Have a look.

So, if there is no free will because there is no conscious, subconscious, super conscious then what is directing me to have or choose to have new thoughts about being liberated from my thoughts.

Give me an example of a choice/decision that is fairly regular e.g. what to have for breakfast.

This being is experiencing observing others that have wealth conscious thoughts and others stuck in their groundhog day.

Is this what is actually experienced or thought to be experienced? How do you know what thoughts others have?

Can you send thoughts away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Can thought think?
Is there is a thought that you can control?
Can a thought think?]
You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

It is always experienced!

And does this expansive spaciousness care what thoughts are experienced or not? Is it bothered by anything experienced at all?
Can you rest there?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Inger]

Give me an example of a choice/decision that is fairly regular e.g. what to have for breakfast.

I choose oatmeal. Just a knowing that was right for now.

Is this what is actually experienced or thought to be experienced? How do you know what thoughts others have?

Can you send thoughts away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Can thought think?
Is there is a thought that you can control?
Can a thought think?]
You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

"I" was perceiving/ awareness that wealthy people has beliefs, conditions of self different from the thoughts of homeless.
They just are.
I can't stop my thoughts. I do experience stillness, quiet when I listen to the inner sound, inner presence, and inner light. Focus on breath.
No, "I" can't predict my next thoughts, only awareness.

No.
Thoughts are perceived.

Only experience of no experience. Content is illusion. It isn't bothered by anything, no one. no one is here. My true nature is to rest here. Liberation of self. Thank you Sarah. Hugs xxx

[Sarah7]

Mornin Inger

I choose oatmeal. Just a knowing that was right for now.

OK - I want you to watch/notice/observe this decision process like a hawk. If you don't know what you are going to think before the thought comes does that apply to decisions?
Do 'you' make them or do they just happen?

"I" was perceiving/ awareness that wealthy people has beliefs, conditions of self different from the thoughts of homeless.

Can you experience something you don't experience?

It isn't bothered by anything, no one. no one is here.

I call this that which notices rather than awareness. Hope that's ok. Does that which notices ever reject anything, judge anything, dislike anything? Including thoughts about?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Inger]

OK - I want you to watch/notice/observe this decision process like a hawk. If you don't know what you are going to think before the thought comes does that apply to decisions?
Do 'you' make them or do they just happen?

Decisions just happen. Life just happens.

Can you experience something you don't experience?

Good question. No.

Does that which notices ever reject anything, judge anything, dislike anything? Including thoughts about?

No. It life-ing.

Thank you Sarah.
Hugs xxx

[Sarah7]

Hey Inger
Lets have a little look at sensation and separation. We are going to start with seeing.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Inger]

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

I am noticing seeing flashing light, colors, textures, numbers, words...I hear ticking. Thoughts come and go.

"There is no 'noticer' separate from noticing."

It is just happening. No one here, just happening, life-ing. There is no dividing line in lifeing. Or treeing or nature. It is inseparable. I am an illusion, so entity is separation, thinking I am seeing or hearing and have been for 40 years. No one is seeing only noticing.

Only seeing. I am not the seer- there is noticing/perceiving in thought that I am the seer keeping me separate and in the illusion. It is the clouds in the sky that I can touch. I is just happening.

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?

"I" look outside and notice I immediately start labeling tree, sky, leaf, grass, chair. Then 'I' close my eyes and look again not labeling just happening, Just noticing...
" Nothing is separate. Everything is joined. Life flows." It is just happening and always will just happening.

Thanks Sarah!!!
Hugs xxxxx

[Sarah7]

Hey Inger!
So with seeing think of a tv screen with a beautiful mountain scene on it. Mountains in the background, lower hills in front of that, a lovely flowered grassy plain in the foreground with a river gently flowing through. You may also notice parts of your nose, or a bit of hair, or maybe even your hands. Thoughts are busy labelling everything on that screen even where it is and what colour it is. And you may notice it even fill in the blanks like adding the rest of you!
However the screen is flat.
Are you separate from that screen? Or from that seeing?
Does seeing happen even when attention is on something else?

So onto hearing!
Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?
What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Inger]

So with seeing think of a tv screen with a beautiful mountain scene on it. Mountains in the background, lower hills in front of that, a lovely flowered grassy plain in the foreground with a river gently flowing through. You may also notice parts of your nose, or a bit of hair, or maybe even your hands. Thoughts are busy labelling everything on that screen even where it is and what colour it is. And you may notice it even fill in the blanks like adding the rest of you!
However the screen is flat.
Are you separate from that screen? Or from that seeing?
Does seeing happen even when attention is on something else?

I have pondered over this question for days. Now I see it is simple. It just is happening. I the Self thought I have eyes that see by sending the messages to my brain. It is all happening. It is all one energy, space.

It just is happening, perceiving. Life is always seeing.

[quoteNotice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?
What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know? ][/quote]

Hearing just is happening. The inner sound is always there. Hearing is happening. Life is hearing, not self. It is all a label if it comes from Self.

Thank you Sarah