Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

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davidg
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Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:31 pm

Hello,

My name is david. I am requesting a guide please. i have been reading the pdf from Ilona as instructed and am ready to begin.
This has been a multi decades old "process" of undoing, seeing thru, deconstruction etc.
Ive watched all of the LU videos numerous times as well as Lisa's videos (OneSpaciousness). So much gratitude to everyone here for having created this forum to assist in going thru the gate. So wonderful. So much appreciation.

Here is a bit of bio and please understand that I am ready willing and able to do everything and anything necessary and to do the work to get thru the gate after literally decades of confusion and frustration.... I will be completely open and honest. I will answer any and every question my guide will ask. I am ready.

This "process" began when I was in my teens. I am now 57. Had been thru decades of zen practice as a student and as a monk.
Then something began to happen...
Approximately 10 years ago I found the NondualSalon and to several people: Jed Mckenna, Ben Smythe, Sailor Bob Adamson, Avasa, Tony Parsons, Jeff Frost, and several other people along the way. Their writings, books, videos. As I began in earnest reading listening and watching what these people had to share, I quickly began to realize what bullshit the meditation and bowing and dogma and the buddhism and the "teachings" were and I left the zen center I was studying at as well as the teacher. I literally threw away all my robes, sutra books, zafus/meditation cushions, books on or about enlightenment and zen and buddhism, etc. Many many books and every other buddhist and zen item such as statues and incense and truthfully I have never looked back.
Something ...Don't know what....has happened and seems to be happening(?) This has been going on for a very long time. I can somewhat repeat what feels correct: There isn't a david and never was. Awakening/enlightenment is impossible because there's no one here to be that or anything else. Nothing is/was or can ever be. What is "seen" is there is nothing and no thing here and truly ....not sure how to say or express this and this (what ever this is feels a bit lost) and that too is seen as a concept. (This) seems to "blink" on and off/on and off, constantly. What is also seen is how all the "spiritual" crap really is nothing but a play toy as JM coined the phrase. When I see such posts on FB, the posters and phrases of some fuzzy spiritual BS I quickly loose all interest and don't even bother reading the entire post. So this is how things are going. This is obviously a very brief description.

There is a disconnect with so many things (I'm not even sure if I'm expressing this correctly.) Just feels like a disconnection. A watching of how people seems so caught up in all the worldly BS and hurrying around and all the seemingly self importance and this here (pointing at body lolo) seems lost at sea or adrift or falling....Endlessly.
Anyway, thank you. I will gladly expand on anything and everything I have written.
Sincerely,
david

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Ilona
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby Ilona » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:36 pm

Hi David. Thank you for intro, I can see where you are coming from. I'm here to assist you.
Would you tell me, what are you looking for? What should be different and what do you expect from coming here.
Looking forward to see how our conversation turns out.

Kind regards
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:03 pm

Hello Ilona, THANK YOU so much for reaching out to me. Much gratitude and appreciation.
To begin answering your questions.....I will attempt to express this as accurately as i can...I am looking for freedom from the constant 'blinking'' on and off and on again from (what appears to be) a somewhat intellectual understanding of the "no one here named david and all the life long stories. The life time story creating that is this david. I could have been witty and have answered you by saying I want nothing but that would be a lie. There is suffering and a screaming in silence for this freedom and perception that i have heard described in so many videos from you and Lisa and Ben Smythe and Charlie Hayes and Bob Adamson, Tony Parsons, etcetc...And the books I feel confused often and feel so much inside and even tho I think there is a clarity and seeing thru all this story creation as it were, there feels like a stuckness and myopic blindness.
What should be different? I would have to say to see thru the robot like conditioned stuckness and to be "ok" with all the conditioned responses and yet being able to have the perception shift I have heard expressed.
What do I expect from coming and being here? Honestly...what Ive said above and to have the perception to see thru the nonsense that still gets seemingly so in the way often.
Ilona, Im being as open and truthful as I am able and there is this hazy like confusion and a knowing of some kind that I "am not there yet" or "thru the gate" And there is a sincerity to be and to go thru.
I want to be completely truthful and honest with you and I believe that I am and will clarify everything Ive said if its unclear for you.
Thank you for reaching out to me, Ilona.

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Ilona
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby Ilona » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:54 pm

Thank you very much for honest and thoughtful replay.
How does this make you feel? Go into sensation and watch it, what is happening there?
Focus on raw sensation, is it ok for it to be here?

Allow this thought in and watch the reaction-
There is no separate self.
Then have a look, what is separate from what exactly?
What is that is trying to figure this out?
Is it happening by itself or you are doing it?

Write down what you notice. Take your time with it.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:45 pm

Hello Ilona,

Thank you so much for your guidance and your reply. It is now 2:45 pm here in West Hills, California where I live. I am going out for several hours and will be bringing your questions with me. I will write back to you later on with my responses.
Till then and thank you so much again for your guidance.
david

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:44 pm

Thank you very much for honest and thoughtful replay.
How does this make you feel? Go into sensation and watch it, what is happening there?
Focus on raw sensation, is it ok for it to be here?

Allow this thought in and watch the reaction-
There is no separate self.
Then have a look, what is separate from what exactly?
What is that is trying to figure this out?
Is it happening by itself or you are doing it?

Write down what you notice. Take your time with it.
Hello Ilona,
Good morning.
Now to answer your questions.
How does this make me feel? Anxious and desperate for the truth, for the great death as it is referred to. The hunger for it is like a raging fire yet quietly burning internally as I go from one activity to the next.

Is it ok to be here? Yes. Completely. Totally. Because this is what is being "experienced" but experienced by no one. Which appears to almost blink on and off. When it is remembered it feels freeing and light and seems to contain a subtle yet powerful energy with it and then it is forgotten suddenly as focus is pulled into something else and there is distraction for however long this happens and then the remembering happens again. This is continuous.

And as I am writing this there is a constant pull and desire to get up, to walk away from the computer, to be distracted in what ever way presents itself. To not look at this, to not see it but I see this happening and so I catch it and stay right here in front of the computer writing out these perceptions and the answers to your questions.

There is no separate self-what is separate from what exactly? One such answer would be that this body/brain/organism is separate from the rest of the world, from what is seen, felt, perceived, thought about etc. But the truth as is understood right now is that this body/brain/organism is Not separated from anything Because there is no one here with the name of david with all the stories and historical data. And as always, this is forgotten as the attention and focus is pulled away and drawn to what ever events or thoughts or experiences or feelings arise.

What is trying to figure this out? OMG this question seems to be like or feels like a big wrench being jammed into an engine and the engine is suddenly jammed and forced to stop its endless processing, analyzing, computing, trying neurotically trying to explain and clarify and figure all this out and how the world works and how and why people are the way we are....the constant attempt to understand and attempting to figure everything out. What is trying to figure this out is from what has been learned about at least intellectually is a story of a guy named david who can do this and this, is not so good at this and that, who has likes and preferences and neuroses and fears and hurts and history and blablabla ad infinitum. The stories, habits, programming and robotic conditioning of the brain and its pathways. This is what has been understood of the awakening process....The joke is claiming an ownership of all this crap when there is no one named david and never was. No owner. Just the 100 trillion cells operating impersonally. Independently of anyone with a "history' or a name tag or anything else and yet immediately what is being seen and frustratingly felt is this fictitious persona and person with the name david jumps right in to claim it as his lololo. This continuous remembering, forgetting, remembering and forgetting.
What is trying to figure this out? Ilona I don't know and don't have a clue in truth. I have no idea. What I wrote above is the spin theory BS that the head invents.

Is it happening by itself? Yes. Yes it is. The brain is just spewing this crap out there. The david story tries to jump in to say it is doing it and then there is an immediate distraction and all the habits will cloud any truth or knowing and this feels frustrating and numbing. There is the intellectual knowing that there is no " I " doing any of this. The head/brain is constantly screaming for attention to analyse and "become enlightened" lolo and to figure it all out...There is also just a noticing of all this and it makes me laugh. Just watching it and knowing theres ZERO control here and no one creating it. And yet this feels like the blinking on and off Ive mentioned previously as best I can at this point.

Thank you Ilona.

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:14 pm

Ilona,

This "insight" just came up: It ''feels" frustrating because it all seems intellectual. Not emotional or physical and not from direct experience.

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Ilona
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:06 pm

Thank you for answer. Let's look a bit closer now. I can see that there is intellectual understanding that there is no one here. It's ok, but it's not what is needed, right? So let's leave all you know on the side for a bit. Don't quote, recite or parrot anything that you ever read, heard or believed. Let's look fresh at experience and write what you notice, not what you think you know. There is a difference. Describing can only happen when you focus and see. When you look. All the rest is mind gymnastics. It's ok to leave that for a bit.

So let's look now. There is experiencing happening - there are colours, sounds, sensations, being perceived right now. Is there David that feels sensations?
Where is David found?
Is voice in the head David?
Is David that is listening to the voice?
What is the voice talking to/ at?

Write what you notice. Just focus on the voice in the head. Listen to what it is saying.
Are you the talker or listener? Both or neither?
Is this voice talking truth?
How do you know?

Looking forward to read what you notice.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:04 pm

Hello Ilona,
This response is only a test. Im having an issue with this computer. I just tried sending a response and it was deleted.

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Ilona
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby Ilona » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:46 pm

Ok. Got it.
It may be a good idea to type all in a note pad or other editor and copy paste here. We are having some problems with forum software, one of them is frequent error 500. Which when happens goes away in a few minutes. Other is that when one spends longer time writing post, post disappears.
Other than that, all is working.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:58 pm

I just rewrote it. And saved to drafts. Not sure what to do now. This happened after i responded to you and i got an error message and my response to you was gone. So now I rewrote it with a few changes and its in drafts and now I want to send it to you. Not quite sure how to fix this and proceed.
Please advise ?

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:22 pm

Hello Ilona,
I will rewrite my responses but save them prior to sending.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for answer. Let's look a bit closer now. I can see that there is intellectual understanding that there is no one here. It's ok, but it's not what is needed, right? So let's leave all you know on the side for a bit. Don't quote, recite or parrot anything that you ever read, heard or believed. Let's look fresh at experience and write what you notice, not what you think you know. There is a difference. Describing can only happen when you focus and see. When you look. All the rest is mind gymnastics. It's ok to leave that for a bit.

So let's look now. There is experiencing happening - there are colours, sounds, sensations, being perceived right now. Is there David that feels sensations?
Where is David found?
Is voice in the head David?
Is David that is listening to the voice?
What is the voice talking to/ at?

Write what you notice. Just focus on the voice in the head. Listen to what it is saying.
Are you the talker or listener? Both or neither?
Is this voice talking truth?
How do you know?

Looking forward to read what you notice.
Sending love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No the intellectual isn't needed.

Is there a david who feels sensations? No.

Where is david found? No place. Just this voice that is yammering on and on impersonally.

Is the voice in the head david? No. Its just the programmed and conditioned voice of memory and repeated circular patterns repeating themselves over and over again incessantly.

Is david listening to the voice? No. Ilona, when there is remembering then the voice is just the chattering noise within the head. When the truth is not in that instance remembered then the voice and whats being played out grabs hold.

What is the voice talking to / at? In truth, nothing and no one but these habitual patterns of memory and programming. Then as mentioned, there is forgetting of this underlying truth that no one is here just habitual patterns playing themselves out as they do.

Am i the talker or listener? Both or neither? I am not either the talker or listener. This is truth and then it will be forgotten until again remembered and what was just realized was this remembering forgetting is also from no one to no one lololo.

Is this voice talking truth? In general the answer is no. It is mostly a yammering on and on and a chattering of endless nonsense usually.

Thank you, Ilona.

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:22 pm

Hello Ilona,
I will rewrite my responses but save them prior to sending.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for answer. Let's look a bit closer now. I can see that there is intellectual understanding that there is no one here. It's ok, but it's not what is needed, right? So let's leave all you know on the side for a bit. Don't quote, recite or parrot anything that you ever read, heard or believed. Let's look fresh at experience and write what you notice, not what you think you know. There is a difference. Describing can only happen when you focus and see. When you look. All the rest is mind gymnastics. It's ok to leave that for a bit.

So let's look now. There is experiencing happening - there are colours, sounds, sensations, being perceived right now. Is there David that feels sensations?
Where is David found?
Is voice in the head David?
Is David that is listening to the voice?
What is the voice talking to/ at?

Write what you notice. Just focus on the voice in the head. Listen to what it is saying.
Are you the talker or listener? Both or neither?
Is this voice talking truth?
How do you know?

Looking forward to read what you notice.
Sending love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No the intellectual isn't needed.

Is there a david who feels sensations? No.

Where is david found? No place. Just this voice that is yammering on and on impersonally.

Is the voice in the head david? No. Its just the programmed and conditioned voice of memory and repeated circular patterns repeating themselves over and over again incessantly.

Is david listening to the voice? No. Ilona, when there is remembering then the voice is just the chattering noise within the head. When the truth is not in that instance remembered then the voice and whats being played out grabs hold.

What is the voice talking to / at? In truth, nothing and no one but these habitual patterns of memory and programming. Then as mentioned, there is forgetting of this underlying truth that no one is here just habitual patterns playing themselves out as they do.

Am i the talker or listener? Both or neither? I am not either the talker or listener. This is truth and then it will be forgotten until again remembered and what was just realized was this remembering forgetting is also from no one to no one lololo.

Is this voice talking truth? In general the answer is no. It is mostly a yammering on and on and a chattering of endless nonsense usually.

Thank you, Ilona.

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davidg
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby davidg » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:24 pm

Hello Ilona,

Quick note to you this afternoon. What I'm going to share was immediately noticed upon arising this morning.
A heaviness. The way I can label them together as a group, is a kind of confusion and dread. A down feeling. And anxious. A feeling of a heaviness as if someone or something was sitting on my chest and also squeezing my throat.
A feeling of stifling back tears. Of holding back sadness and tears.
The assumption is that this is ego/identity coming under attack and it feels as if I am being attacked from the inside out. And the assumption is that ego/identity/maya will do anything and and everything to distract and to almost punish any movement and focus to that end, in that direction. To punish and distract and to keep from being seen clearly. This (feels) badly. A heaviness and dread. Sadness. And the dark stories that come up are saying that, you will, (see this, read it all and think I'm crazy for sharing all this.)

But I know I must and I will. and I will be completely honest and truthful with you and hold nothing back and will not edit or censure. I will be totally open and exposed.

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Ilona
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Re: Hello, I am a new member. I am requesting a guide.

Postby Ilona » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:51 am

Hi David, thank you for replies and openness. This is essential, to stay honest and fearlessly share what is actually going on.

So you saw, that voice in the head is not david, that voice keeps talking by itself, to itsel. Let me ask this- is thinking a problem?

What makes thinking a problem?
How is thinking connected to emotion?

You say that David is found nowhere. Have a look here- David is found. In the stories ABOUT David. Voice in the head is telling stories about this character David. But where is David right now?

When you watch a movie and identify with characters, feel emotions, excitement, fear with them, can you see that character in a movie is fiction? It still gives emotions, it still plays the part, but character is made up. It's all part of the story. Story ABOUT him.
Take your favourite movie character. Compare it to David. What is same and what is different? Is David more real then the other guy? How?

Let's look into this today. Write all that comes up.
We'll get through, step by step. Trust the process.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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