Hi, Chris Jack Wright!
[I'm here because I'm tired of living my life from one or other of my default positions: anger, fear, sadness....occasionally laughter and joy get through to remind me how things can be and so I become a seeker…..]
...See MoreLike · · Unfollow Post · December 17, 2011 at 11:15am
Chris Jack Wright Hi Ingen. Thanks for the disclaimer - I realise how important it is. The only way i can answer your question is to say that strong emotions rise which I identify with and then make them manifest in the world as a 'me'. For instance, earlier I was rudely awoken by someone slamming a door at 4am. I felt a powerful anger/indignation and, after taking ownership of these feelings, I made it manifest by obsessing how I was going to get even/teach them the error of their ways, etc. When I am calm, I can clearly see that these feelings are not me but when any stronger feeling arises I, unconsciously, become that. I'm recognising this quicker and quicker but I still suffer a kind of despair at not being free to let the emotion pass through. Interestingly, if i do nothing with these feelings there can be a kind of mild depression, as if I'm powerless. Either way, these thoughts, feelings and the sense of me appear as a solid mass called me. Hope this makes sense!
December 17, 2011 at 11:50am · Like
Ingen Findes It sounds like you are really close! Yes I know that anger leads to really strong identification. Let's first look at a calmer state of mind. You write "I can clearly see that these feelings are not me". What are you then?
December 17, 2011 at 12:40pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright Interestingly, when I read that you thought I was really close, I cried a little...a kind of detached crying....like a child 'giving in'.
December 17, 2011 at 1:19pm · Unlike · 2
Chris Jack Wright What am I when I feel calm? I really feel a distance between me and the thoughts. I can watch it all as if at a cinema. Before I know it, though, woos, i'm in there suffering with it all again. Usually it is a sense of dread, as if something really horrible is imminent and the me-ness of it is a kind of resistance to that at some subterranean level.
December 17, 2011 at 1:22pm · Like
Ingen Findes Take some time to watch the mechanism of thoughts and feelings. Is there something watching the thoughts? Or do thoughts show up in awareness, triggered mostly by outside impulses - and are just hangin there, until they disappear again?
Look at the fear, without trying to get rid of it. Just kind of curious. Is there a thing feeling the fear, or does fear just appear in awareness, until it gets replaced by something else?
December 17, 2011 at 2:04pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright I can see that feelings arise from nowhere. Then thoughts about the feelings come up. Then thoughts about a me experiencing/suffering these feelings. There is a sense of something watching all of this which i then associate with a me because I always have and never questioned this! I've been practicing though. All day in a very busy London, I've been relaxing into this sense of awareness and letting all my usual triggers be pulled - traffic, rude people, too many people, etc and, when there has been engagement I have looked and seen the energy/feelings, seen the thoughts about a me and noticed that there is no me in the mix, just an idea of a me, an assumption, unquestioned until now. There seems to be a smoothness about my day. Sometimes anger rears up very quickly but I'm able to sidestep it more and more. There is an acute resistance to the fear though - I respond very quickly, like a survival instinct kicks in - destroy the cause of the fear or run away - classic fight or flight. I'm going to have to look into this anger much more I think.
December 17, 2011 at 8:45pm · Like
Ingen Findes Yes. This kind of direct-experience-investigation is the way!
----"feelings arise from nowhere. Then thoughts about the feelings come up. Then thoughts about a me experiencing/suffering these feelings. "-----
"There is a sense of something watching all of this which i then associate with a me because I always have and never questioned this!" ------Things come up, and by a conditioned reflex - (learned reflex), a watcher is assumed. It is learned when about 2 or three years old. And it will come up also in the future. It got quite solidly embedded in your system… Just like optical illusions don't disappear when seen through. But you don't take them for real anyway anymore.
-----"I've been practicing though. All day in a very busy London, I've been relaxing into this sense of awareness and letting all my usual triggers be pulled - traffic, rude people, too many people, etc and, when there has been engagement I have looked and seen the energy/feelings, seen the thoughts about a me and noticed that there is no me in the mix, just an idea of a me, an assumption, unquestioned until now. There seems to be a smoothness about my day. Sometimes anger rears up very quickly but I'm able to sidestep it more and more."-----
It is good to practice "seeing the mechanism", to watch you thoughts making up a "me". But don't practice to *not* get triggered, to relax, to sidestep anger. . You can do all kind of practices later on, now concentrate on understanding how the whole thing works. Instead bring your observations of petty, angered and fearful self here, we'll take a look.
---"There is an acute resistance to the fear though "------ I don't understand. Resistance to looking at fear?
You are doing great. Keep looking. There is no you. Could it be true? Is it true? What if it IS true?
December 17, 2011 at 11:11pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright Well, I woke today with lots of the old fears and doubts screaming for attention (the middle of the night and mornings are always noisier in this sense) but a quick read of the thread and I'm back on track. Regarding your query: What I meant by resistance to fear is that, as soon as my body fires off the feeling we call fear, there's strong desire to get rid of it, to not feel it for a moment longer, to resist it taking over completely, and fight or flight is the only response that may achieve this. Does that make sense? Maybe the word resistance was not the most accurate, perhaps fear of the fear was more correct! "there is no you. Could it be true? Is it true? What if it IS true?" Well, I've sat with this a lot and I find the idea equally frightening and thrilling. The idea of no me has great potential; no guilt, no blame, no suffering, no shame...quite a prospect. As I sit with this there seems to be a lot more space, a lot less 'personal' drama; some of the images that come up in that space are immense creations that I used to believe were almost psychotic but now I think of them as the minds way of describing what it has no words for. Could it be true, no me? I fear a loss of control. How would I get the peaceful life, the money I need, the security and safety I demand? What if I no longer look after my health, finances, etc? What if I'm rude or aggressive and lose my job......these types of thoughts rush up when I think of no me because I think the me orchestrates my life, controls the maelstrom that would otherwise sweep me away. I'd love to believe there's no me, but I daren't. as I mentioned, there seems to be more space but there's a sense of a big-me overlooking the space. Hope all this makes sense, Ingen, and thanks for sticking with me!
December 18, 2011 at 12:03pm · Like
Ingen Findes Thanks to you, Chris, for your honest investigation.
Let's concentrate on this right now:
---"Could it be true, no me? I fear a loss of control. How would I get the peaceful life, the money I need, the security and safety I demand? What if I no longer look after my health, finances, etc? What if I'm rude or aggressive and lose my job......these types of thoughts rush up when I think of no me because I think the me orchestrates my life, controls the maelstrom that would otherwise sweep me away."---
The fear of the loss of control is a big hurdle. But: If you look at your life right now, how much control do you have? How do you e.g. look after your health? What of the things you do to maintain your health were originally your own, and which of them are caused by your (your?) genes and conditioning? Why do you eat something healthy instead of chocolate and potato chips? Who decided what you like? Who decides to slip control and binge on chocolate and chips once in a while? There is a big story running in all of us that we have to be reasonable, that it is our responsibility to be reasonable and so on. But what *really* decides is a web of impulses from inside and outside. The story of "me" comes on top of that, claiming "I have failed" or "I was good".
Thes same is the case with security and financial and all other issues. The conditioning that makes you be friendly and reasonable NOW will still be there after you see "I" is but a label. Why should all of a sudden rudeness and aggressiveness show up? It is not YOU who decides how aggressive you are anyway. Remember the example from the door being slammed in the middle of the night?
Analyze how "your" preferences and decisionscome about.
December 18, 2011 at 1:41pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright Wow, this one is rocking my boat, Ingen. I once heard someone describe thought as a redundant narrative, seems to be true. I can see this but it is soooooo quick it is hard to see what is really happening - I get a sense of my hand moving for a pencil but the thought about me making that decision rubber stamps the action as 'mine' so quickly. Who is it that decides to rubber stamp and claim the action - that's what I can't get right now - who is deciding to claim control! I'll stay with this until the morning! Sleep well Ingen.
December 18, 2011 at 8:43pm · Like
Ingen Findes Who has control over when to get tired? :) Good night, Chris.
December 18, 2011 at 9:27pm via mobile · Like
Chris Jack Wright Morning Ingen. Today i'm a little depressed as there seems to less of that clear space that was there yesterday. The negative images/thoughts are so vivid and strong, it appears, that I can't get free of it all except for a few seconds! I sit and allow it all to be there and i know it's not a me but I succumb to it anyway. I feel like i'm in a game of snakes and ladders where, after climbing hard to the top of a ladder I slide right back down a snake and have to begin again! I know this is all story telling but it certainly seems real!
December 19, 2011 at 12:46pm · Like
Ingen Findes Sorry to hear you are depressed. Of course it is always nicer to be in a good mood. For our purpose - to look if the "I" is real, it doesn't matter though. As I said before, don't try to change your state of mind. Look where the negative images appear. Is there someone seeing them, or are they just appearing? Who is trying to get free of them? Is it not so that - Step 1 - Negative image appears. Step 2 feelings arise. - Step 3- A thought shows up, saying: "I" have fucked up again.
Look, don't theorize: Can you find an I which can't get free?
December 19, 2011 at 1:46pm · Like
Ingen Findes ... I didn't mean to dismiss your worries. They are real. They come and go. The thing that is not real is the "you" which is claiming them.
December 19, 2011 at 3:54pm · Like · 1
Chris Jack Wright Look don't theorise - perfect ;0) As I've been looking I have noticed that every time i 'fall into the dream' again the negativity shows up in equal measure. It's a simple mechanism that I've been tied to for a long time. I see it clearly and get out quicker. I also see that the more I relax into beingness the more obvious it becomes and the less powerful the pull into the dream! (I wish the beingness had the power of the negativity though ;0)) I feel calmer (not blessed) in this beingness though i don't feel it is my true identity nor do I yet trust things will look after themselves without my neurotic control. In a way, I'm scared to believe it can be true - this liberation!
December 19, 2011 at 4:13pm · Like
Ingen Findes Dear Chris. If you want to find out the truth, please do as I say. Put all other practices and theories aside for now. I didn't say anything about relaxing into beingness, whatever that should mean, and I didn't say you should stay out of a dream. It won't work anyway.
Now listen. The table before you is real, isn't it? Or is it a dream table? Don't theorize. Don't reiterate second hand pieces of spiritual wisdom. Keep it simple. What is true, what is real right now? LOOK. And tell me what you find, inside and outside.
December 19, 2011 at 8:19pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright Ok Ingen. I'll look. The table is solid and real. The computer is bright and real. My body is real. My heart beat is real. There is awareness. There are thoughts rising which are real. There is a sense of me. It appears to be me but when I watch I get the feeling that it is a feeling which I've called me. There are thoughts about that. I can't find a me but there is still a strong feeling which I call me.
December 19, 2011 at 10:52pm · Like
Ingen Findes Yes, that is better. :)
I like to compare the "sense of me" with a "sense of summer" or "sense of Christmas". It is kind of a conglomerate of body feelings, expectations and memories, isn't it?
How did the decision to start looking for real happen just before? Analyze. Details, please! Did you decide? Did I make you look?
December 19, 2011 at 11:25pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright Hi ingen. Yes, the sense of me is a conglomerate, I can see that. The decision to look for real seemed to be provoked by your mild rebuke. I felt foolish for drifting off course. I sat still and didn't follow my mind. it seemed as though I was making these observations but I only recall the narrative coming slightly after the action. Would I have looked if you hadn't asked? No. Did I decide then to look at the things that were looked at? I can't tell. Was there looking and then claiming ownership of this afterwards? Yes. Was there a controller? No, I can't recall such. Thanks for keeping me on the game, Ingen. It's very difficult when my minds firing off all sorts of silliness. Just for info, I'm very busy over the next few days but will access my FB account from work and, hopefully, I will get to respond. Sleep well.
December 20, 2011 at 12:33am · Like
Ingen Findes You are doing great. :)
While you are busy with life the next days, remember once in a while to watch how life is unfolding. When dealing with people: how much of the interaction requires a "you"? I remember being struck after a business telephone call that the whole thing had happened by itself, including politeness and a certain outcome. Or walking by a colleague, smiling at him and assuming to myself afterwards: "I" have smiled at him. While in reality smiling just had happened, out of a combination of social politeness requirements, learned conditioning and good wheather.
When you should forget to look during the day (which will be the case most of the time probably): Doesn' t matter. The I doesn't become real only because you don't think of it. Read that again, please!!!
How does it feel recognizing the self as an illusion?
December 20, 2011 at 7:23am · Like
Chris Jack Wright Hi Ingen. All day I've been watching and it is 'almost' obvious that the days interactions don't require a me, though it is hard to notice! There were times, say when I opened a door, when it was obvious that it had little to do with a me. Equally, a lot of the time i was responding to challenges with the me, and never for the good of all! Things are much smoother when there's no me involved. It is longed for! As I sit at home now there is more of a me evident, thinking of tomorrow's tasks, etc.. When I think of your question regarding myself as an illusion I have no problems with it at all intellectually, though experientially it is still evading 'me'!
December 20, 2011 at 8:52pm · Like
Ingen Findes Describe how you experience you.
December 20, 2011 at 9:27pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright ha ha, Ingen, did you used to be a boxer....I just looked up at your question and bop - a sock in the eye to consider ;0)) OK. How do I experience me? I can see my extremities typing away. I can feel the weight of my body in the chair, longing to relax. Thoughts, a long stream of them, seemingly connected, arise and fall as others take their place. My thoughts are all over the place but seem to be relevant to my day and to my expectations of tomorrow. A sense of resignation, tiredness I suppose. The thoughts change to suit, it appears. when I look for a me I get a strong sense of it yet I've just put my hand on the desk and know it had nothing to do with the me!
December 20, 2011 at 10:03pm · Like
Ingen Findes Sorry for the sock in the eye, hihi.
The body including tiredness is real. Thoughts - relevant or not - , one after another, are real. Feelings of e.g. resignation are real. The big question is: Is there something watching all this?
You noticed that thoughts come in as memories and expectations, triggered by todays events. Can you find something producing or controlling the thoughts? A thought-controller? A thought-watcher? A thought-orchestrater?
There is no hierarchy of thoughts. There is not one thought thinking the others. Thoughts cannot think.
And feelings: can you find a extra feeler who is producing feelings? Or are there just feelings, until they disappear?
This "strong sense of I" you have is the illusion. Everybody around you believes in it. When you sit in a train, and the neighbor train starts forward, you get a strong sense of rolling backwards. You will always "have" it, but not believe it anymore.
All these sensations, feelings and thoughts are there, they are life doing its thing. I might have said that before. "I" is a story which is a thought on top of it. You can tell it, make more poetry about it and use it for practical purposes, but in reality it is empty.
---"yet I've just put my hand on the desk and know it had nothing to do with the me!"--- How did it happen?
December 20, 2011 at 10:53pm · Like · 1
Chris Jack Wright Morning Ingen. I'm having a really hard time seeing this today. I'm filled with very strong emotions due to my treatment at work and I feel totally caught in it, as if i am it. I've been awake a lot during the night because this noise in my head wouldn't shut up! tired, tired, tired. Only microscopically can I look and see no me. there's also a strong fear that, should I get it, I'll do nothing to change my stressful circumstances; the fear is mixed with hopelessness, which I can't seem to stop owning!!. How come something supposedly easy to see is so difficult and appears only to get worse as it's looked at. Sorry for being so negative after all your work, Ingen. I'm going to work now and I'll look during my day for where there is no me.
December 21, 2011 at 10:07am · Like
Chris Jack Wright I realised on the way to work that ALL of my 'misery' has to do with my identification with an I that wants to stop/change the negative emotion that I'm feeling - an over riding sense of "it's not fair" is evident and I recall identifying with this strongly in the past. There appears to be overwhelming evidence that things 'shouldn't' be like this and I must change them!! I look for the I with an eye and get cross-eyed!!
December 21, 2011 at 10:47am · Like
Ingen Findes Hey, that sounds good! Yes, the I is the story that things should be different than they are.
Anyway, I'll post here the reply to what you wrote before (now that I have written it):
Chris, looking for "no me" won't work. What do you expect to find? If you look for "no pineapple", you won't find "it" neither.
Instead watch (e.g. stressful) thoughts filling up your mind. Or…. wait. Mind is not a container. If there are stressful thoughts, that *is* mind right now! The I-story is pretending there is a container, labeled "I".
------"there's also a strong fear that, should I get it, I'll do nothing to change my stressful circumstances"----
Maybe you won't experience the circumstances as stressful anymore. Or you'll muster up the courage to change them. Or, or, or. The fear is a protection mechanism of the I-illusion. It doesn't "want" to be uncovered. It doesn't *want* you to rest in what is right now. (Well, now I am childishly animating something which in reality is just an idea. I picture it as a kind of octopus, though, formed by thoughts…)
Don't stress about looking. You don't have to "make progress". And don't worry about me. I *like* talking to you!!!
December 21, 2011 at 11:07am · Like
Chris Jack Wright An octopus formed by thoughts - a good device, Ingen. I'll sit with that today! I will have more time soon as the holidays kick in!! Have a great day!
December 22, 2011 at 9:48am · Unlike · 1
Chris Jack Wright I realised that, whenI said I have a fear that I won't do anything about my stressful circumstances should I become liberated, I'm assuming that the false I is in charge and, once he's gone, there'll be nothing done. A slieght of hand trick by the ego!! There isn't an I doing things, just a train of thoughts commenting, mostly negatively, on what's being done!
December 22, 2011 at 3:27pm · Like
Ingen Findes How does that show in everyday life, say, when you are driving a car or eating a sandwich? What is the reality of these things?
December 22, 2011 at 3:44pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright The mind writes its version of events over the actual event, like a graffiti writer spraying swear words on a car :0) it taints the actual. The sandwich, for instance will be compared to every other sandwich, and probably won't fare well - too much of this, too little of that, foe instance. I'm not a driver but, cycling is done largely on auto pilot and the mind reels off streams of stories that seem like they have value because they promise to keep you safe but, in truth, it's probably not necessary. The problem is I've come to rely on the graffiti writer or the narrator...it seems to tell me what is being done by me, thus defining me! I suppose this gives the illusion of control and giving this up, trusting in what is, is the hard part!
December 24, 2011 at 12:30am · Like
Ingen Findes ----"cycling is done largely on auto pilot" ------
how is it done when *not* on autopilot?
----"The problem is I've come to rely on the graffiti writer or the narrator.."---
Is there one? Tell me about it. How does he operate?
---" I suppose this gives the illusion of control and giving this up, trusting in what is, is the hard part!"----
Just look how it works in reality. See that nobody is in control. Life is all there is, playing out in billions of intricate patterns. You don't have to give up anything.
And merry Christmas to you, Chris!
December 24, 2011 at 10:07am · Like
Chris Jack Wright Thanks Ingen, your generous response will be my christmas consideration! I will be in touch again in a few days. Have a brilliant holiday. Merry Christmas. Chris.
December 24, 2011 at 11:24am · Like · 1
Chris Jack Wright Hi Ingen, I hope you had, and are still having, a great Christmas break. i had a nice time with friends and was 'exposed to' cocktails I'd never heard of! But back to life :how is cycling done when not on autopilot? I think the term autopilot is simply the mind making up a cyclist that it (mind) has allowed to cycle...thus extending the myth of control. Cycling happens when required, no cyclist. I can see what you mean by life is all there is playing out in billions of intricate ways but I still sense a me watching this, choosing to take part, suffering the consequences of bad decisions, or the joy of good ones - it's still about me, it seems, though I can find no me. i love the fact that I can offload responsibility to the ocean but i don't feel part of it, like a wave - more a seal on a rock! I've just looked for the seal on the rock and, of course, there's no seal an no rock...now I've gone brain numb!!!
December 26, 2011 at 4:29pm · Like
Ingen Findes I wrote about the "sense of me" above. It is real. It is the "taste" of all the conditioning and circumstances which constitute the process which is labelled "you". It will not go away no matter how enlightened you ever become, but it can change over time, of course. New input changes the process, whatever the input is.
And now it is time to get serious about the whole thing. At some point you have to decide if you want to live from the lie at the core of your life.
Saying "I ve gone brain numb" is running away from the truth that imo you already see. The seal doesn't see a seal in its direct experience. Just a continuum of water, fish and whatever.
Is there a self running your life or is there just life? How does it feel to realize there is no you?
December 26, 2011 at 9:47pm via mobile · Like
Chris Jack Wright I know that this is a sense of me, Ingen....I do know it, but there's a resistance to it that I can't see and a continuum I don't sense...the lie just seems to run its stories faster, if that makes sense! Everything you say I know is fact but I can't shake the knower of this. "It is real. It is the "taste" of all the conditioning and circumstances which constitute the process which is labelled "you"" I've printed the above post to see if this, stuck on my wall, helps. You ask "how does it feel to realise there is no you?" I think it invokes fear that is deeper than my everyday story!
December 27, 2011 at 2:07pm · Like
Ingen Findes ---"Everything you say I know is fact but I can't shake the knower of this."----
How can you shake the knower if it doesn't exist?
1) A thought shows up. That means it is there. It doesn't need to be "known" or "watched" to be there.
2) Then the next thought shows up, saying, "the last thought was known, therefore a knower must exist".
3) And then the next one: "I still believe in the knower, I'll never get it".
All 3 thoughts are on the same level. Just there. Brain patterns.
December 27, 2011 at 2:19pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright thanks Ingen. i get this but can't move beyond the question: "who gets it" I know it's a consent stream of thought but it seems too real...it's a big sense of me! And who is is that knows freedom/liberation. Can you put that in words, Ingen, it may help - who/what, in this body, knows freedom?
December 28, 2011 at 1:28pm · Like
The question is wrong. It implies there is something in this body which can know something.
We are talking direct experience here. Don't theorize and look at yourself from outside. Look from inside. There are not thoughts *in a body* righ...See More
December 28, 2011 at 2:23pm · Like · 1
Ingen Findes Are you looking, Chris?
December 28, 2011 at 11:03pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright
Yeah, I'm staying with it, Ingen. There are quite a few demands on my time just now but I'm looking. Your phrase " a thought IS knowing" brought a little clarity and I was being with that whilst I've been getting on with things. also my ten...See More
Thursday at 4:58am · Like
Ingen Findes Good. I'll stay with you until the end :)
Thursday at 6:44am via mobile · Like
Chris Jack Wright
My friend is having a hard time and I'm worried about her but i'm powerless so I brought this to inquiry. After watching my thoughts for a while, it seems the thoughts are most often a response to an event or feeling; they (thoughts) resis...See More
Thursday at 9:59pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright Even posting the above, in some degree, is a *mind* way of hoping someone will help....very subtle aspect of this thinking and all arising because I still think a 'me' exists to control - does this make sense, Ingen?
Thursday at 10:02pm · Like
Ingen Findes What I hear is that you don't want to make the leap although you see it all quite clearly.
Thursday at 10:04pm · Like · 1
Ingen Findes The self doesn't have ANY control anyway.
Thursday at 10:04pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright I know but these observations seem to expose the bindings that keep me tied to the lie....
Thursday at 10:06pm · Like
Ingen Findes Give me an example
Thursday at 10:07pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright
well, in real time, as it were, I have these feelings then thoughts about my friend which begets fear about her well being. This cause a panic which causes a rush of *solutions* or *horror stories* about doing or not doing something. I ge...See More
Thursday at 10:14pm · Like
Ingen Findes There are feelings of panic caused by your friends condition. This causes conflicting impulses. The solution is obviously not clear, otherwise there wouldn't be that indecisiveness. Or is there something that should clearly be done??
Where is the I in this process?
---"no I seems to suggest no action/response."---
Why? If it is clear what action is best to be taken, it would be taken.
Thursday at 10:20pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright
stream of conscious: there's a feeling that something should be done but I'm not good enough to do it so the outcome is my fault ....although having a basis in a childhood memory I know it's just thought stories running on and on and there...See More
Thursday at 10:29pm · Like
Ingen Findes You know it is true.
You are finding excuses in childhood stories and stuff, because you still find it would sound weird to say: I don't exist. Maybe somebody would laugh?
Thursday at 10:33pm · Like
Ingen Findes Why can't you admit it just to yourself?
Thursday at 10:35pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright flipping heck, lots of tears...I know you hit a bulls eye...lot's of thoughts running around...all rubbish beliefs that the 'I' is me
Thursday at 10:38pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright just popped up, a fear of actually having to take responsibility if there are no tall tales to hide behind.
Thursday at 10:41pm · Like
Ingen Findes responsibility for what?
Thursday at 10:50pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright my life
Thursday at 10:52pm · Like
Ingen Findes Life is all there is. There is no "you" living "your" life. Life is doing its thing anyway. Everything else is just a story (about responsibility, about wrong decisions etc.), making everything more difficult.
Thursday at 10:54pm · Like
it is like as if you all your life thought you were paralyzed, sitting in a wheelchair. Then a doctor tells you that it was a wrong diagnosis, that you actually are healthy. And proofs it. And you see he is right. But you still have to get ...See More
Thursday at 11:04pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright powerful....I'm being with this analogy for a while
Thursday at 11:08pm · Unlike · 1
Chris Jack Wright Ingen, this has been a great dialogue, which I'm going to reread and look! I have to do a few things now so I will say sleep well and i'll post tomorrow. Your observation that I daren't take the leap is still resonating!!
Thursday at 11:22pm · Like
Ingen Findes Good. Sleep well. There is no you :)
Thursday at 11:29pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright hi Ingen. Today there has been a lot more clarity and much less self. Thoughts/emotions and stuff still rise but don't stick so easily. I can easily see the thought processes and their pulling power is less, though grew a little as I tired toward the end of my walking!
Friday at 5:13pm · Like
Ingen Findes You see it or you don't?
Friday at 5:41pm · Like
Ingen Findes The thought processes will keep happening in all eternity. That is what's happening. The wind blows and thought processes happen. Sometimes you are aware of them immediately, sometimes later. You don't expect them to stop, do you?
Friday at 5:45pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright ha ha, no I don't expect things to stop but certainly I assumed I would be untroubled by them, less of a puppet. I don't know if I have seen 'it' but there seems to be a need to integrate this new clarity in some way......
Friday at 5:50pm · Like
Ingen Findes You are not a puppet. What you thought you are is a puppet. You are not. NOT. Everything else is.
Friday at 6:10pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright it's interesting how easily I spoke/typed from the puppet perspective even though, all day, I've been watching its silliness expressing its self. I see i'm not that, really. I feel much clearer than yesterday on this.
Friday at 6:25pm · Like
Ingen Findes What are you then?
Friday at 7:54pm via mobile · Like
Chris Jack Wright I don't know. I witness all of this, sometimes believe it's me but find more and more of the story as risible.
Friday at 8:16pm · Like
Ingen Findes risible? what does that mean?
Friday at 8:17pm · Like
Ingen Findes nevermind. I looked it up.
Friday at 8:18pm · Like
Ingen Findes Describe in detail how you witness all of this. Give me an example.
Friday at 8:19pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright
right now, it's as if I'm in a wide open space looking at the thoughts/stories and impulses...emotions often come up as a response. there's a clearness that I experience though I feel there's a bubble to burst before I'm free. I feel neit...See More
Friday at 8:30pm · Like
Ingen Findes I can see no bubble to burst. But look for yourself.
Friday at 9:16pm · Like
Ingen Findes Even when you see a film you get pulled into the story. Real emotions happen, and you hope and fear with the protagonists. Still you know it is a film.
Friday at 9:33pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright I can find no self Ingen. There's a sense of self, which as you say is true, as are the thought and emotions. I can see no one having these experiences though. They're just there. I love the film analogy...it's what I keep doing, though I stay long after everyone has left - ha ha! I don't feel as though there's been a major shift, just calm amidst the usual thoughts.
Friday at 10:34pm · Like
Ingen Findes Yes, it is only a tiny shift in perspective. That's it. Let it sink in and let's talk tomorrow. Good night.
Friday at 11:31pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright
I just retread your dialogue with jwhooper and all that they said resonated deeply with me, as did all of your responses to the doubts and fears expressed....super. Also, I read dialogue between Elizabeth and Horace and found that powerful...See More
Yesterday at 1:52am · Unlike · 1
Chris, would you takes some time and answer these question in detail:
1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
2) Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.
Yesterday at 9:28am · Like
Chris Jack Wright ok, Ingen, I'll be back later.
Yesterday at 12:48pm · Like
Ingen Findes So we talk next year. Happy New Year to you!
Yesterday at 4:39pm · Like
Chris Jack Wright
Ok Ingen. I appear to have slipped back a little and seem to have 'lost' yesterday's gains but as I sit and look I see no self. Ill answer your questions now and look forward to your reply next year!! 1)I feel a strong sense of me today ...See More
Yesterday at 5:33pm · Like
Well, let's work at the residues then! How is it going today?
The way to deal with "the nervy, driven desire to change what is" is to just look at it with curiosity, without wanting to change it. It actually becomes kind of fun to catch ...See More
3 hours ago · Like
Richard Bagnall Chris, dont worry about it. I was the same when I was through the gate , i was like, ok so thats it? Now what? Its different for different people. I still dont have a strong sense of joy , but I am more peaceful, more relaxed, more stable, the joy and love may come in time, or it may not, it doesnt really matter. Just keep looking, and keep recognising that no self is true.
3 hours ago · Like
Chris Jack Wright Thanks Richard, it's great to have another's perspective. I realise this will have 'worn' for a while to see how it fits!
about an hour ago · Like
Chris Jack Wright
Hi Ingen. I've been watching this 'me-ing' all day and certainly I've been able to 'catch' the energy shaping itself into the 'me'. It doesn't last long after being watched - probably shy ;o) Very strong emotions seem to be buried in there though. My ability to simply watch the 'fun' is increasing. I'm drawn in less and can see the mechanisms quicker and quicker. The idea that i have to keep doing it is a bit disappointing as i thought there would be a 'done' somewhere along the line ;o( My statement about the fictional me is a bit confusing, I see. I meant there is the 'me' which is a story, a fiction, and a me watching this fiction and declaring it a fiction. I should've noticed that there is just watching and not a 'me' doing the watching. right now, I can sit and see that space within which all else seems to rise and the relief felt at not having to battle this is tinged with a nervousness about my not controlling my stronger emotions, like anger. As if, if I don't keep the lid on them, I'll be in trouble or something bad will happen. A residue of my conditioning, I think.
about an hour ago · Like
Ingen Findes ---"The idea that i have to keep doing it is a bit disappointing as i thought there would be a 'done' somewhere along the line ;o"---
My take on this is: The wish for a final "done" is -surprise, surprise- the story of the final carrot to be reached. A reason for the fictional I to try to get somewhere.
Everything is changing, moving, interacting. No "done" in the real world. If you want to be at home, be at home in the flow.
(oh boy, do I sound wise….? ;) )
This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
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