Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

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AwarenessIsHere
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Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:47 pm

Can you say a bit about what you are expecting from liberation?

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Karolyn
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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:21 pm

Hi there ... glad to find this .. I've never posted on a forum before and wasn't sure how it works.... so ... what am I expecting from liberation.... maybe to be less reactive to things? .... actually, to be more precise, hoping the fear response to Life will die out. I'm tired of being afraid ... but suspect that's what holds this personality "in-tact" ... who would I be without fear?

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:34 pm

... going a bit deeper .... fear energizes my stories ... I can get a sense of my existence, if that makes sense. I can feel my place in the world ... LOL. Sounds rather sick to say I get a sense of identity from fear, but seems that I do. So I would be "no one" without fear. Interesting...

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:58 am

Hi Karolyn.

Well, this forum works al lot like dokusans (private meetings with a teacher for satsang inquiry) but it happens online and in plain sight. Very cool that you found us here. I promise to stay with you for this inquiry through the gate. I just encourage you to be radically honest in your replies as we go forward. Self honesty will take you all the way, if you stick with it. I'll keep asking lots of questions, and your job is to answer truthfully--and take the time you need to really get to your answer. No rush. i will be checking online at least twice a day, so most days you'll hear back from me same day.

So, what I heard from you is that you would like to be less reactive in your life; and less fearful. You also said that you suspect your sense of self is tied into being fearful. "Who would I be without fear?" Not an uncommon condition but good news, a remediable one. :-)

So my next question to you: What comes up when I say "there is no separate entity called I. There is no self at all."

hugs,

Lori Ann

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Karolyn
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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:50 am

Your response brings tears to my eyes ... of relief ... so happy to have someone who will shadow me ... been on my own up til now. Your response helps me to relax a bit and take in your question .... and promise I will be honest ... and have no problem being pushed deeper ...thank you for creating a place for me .... I will get back to you tomorrow .... again, thank you so much

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:10 am

a hug karolyn. This soft place to land is where you are going! It's here for you to be found in your own no-self (all selves!), on the other side of the gate, always, and you are well on your way. Take time to answer by really letting that question sink in.

Lori Ann

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Karolyn
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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:59 pm

"there is no separate entity called I .....there is no self at all" .... what comes up.

When I sit with this it's as if the words hit a wall and don't get absorbed. I feel a numbness ... I get the concept mentally, but have had enough of that. I will slow down today and soak in them a bit more.

K

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:12 pm

Good stuff...keep with it. Under numbness ......? If numbness were to wear off, like anesthesia? What's there, mentally or emotionally, at the thought there is no self?

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:29 am

I've been a bit distracted today (my daughter is here getting ready to go back to Canada) ... but it's been interesting.

Throughout the day I contemplated there is no I, the numbness .... what's under that numbness .... I watched myself interact with her, her fiance, my husband with the sense that each of us, are at our core is the life force that just simply exists and experiences while our "interaction" occurs at another level altogether. I watched us engage in stories, talking about drama going on with some of her friends, getting back to Vancouver to school, her wedding guest list. It all seemed a bit surreal in a way.

Mentally I get that the "I" that I've attached myself to and believe myself (or have believed) to be isn't anything that is organic, but comes from conditioning. Emotionally, when I take in "there is no I" there is a little flash of fear, for a sec ... but it settles down quickly. Seems the difference is when the mind is churning (the stories, etc) and when attention is settled in the heart (which feels like present time). (makes me wonder about this thing we call "attention" ... what the heck is that beam that moves back and forth .... but that might be for another day.)

So I feel like I have a foot in two worlds ... one that experience and I watch from a distance ... and one that I get pulled into and get caught up in the right/wrong, good/bad, judgements, future fears, etc. In that world I "feel" like I am an "I" ... but the growing part of me knows there is no thing.

Hope this stream of consciousness makes sense. K

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:01 am

Well...wonderful lookings and seeings! And yes, it makes sense. And did you know, I live in Vancouver? I say this to remind you/me no-me/no you that there is a perfect weave, an intelligence that shows it's truth in this beast called synchronicty...

Okay, so you are in two worlds...one world, you are seeing that the "I" is already surreal...you get its dreamlike nature and like a lucid dreamer, you are "watching the interactions/drama/dialogue...That is a big one. You are close!

So, given you are already seeing the surreal and dreamlike quality of the "I" referenced self...here's something to consider, that I know you have already, but this time, really play with it. If I tell you that the only thing that can be real is that which does not dissappear when you stop believing in it, what arises for you?

What if you stopped believing in "I Karolyn"...what then?

in love,

Lori Ann

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:14 pm

LOVE THIS !!! I will soak this in and be back ...

(Love the synchronicity of "Vancouver"!!! ... yes, the sychronicities in Life are so much fun) ...My daughter and her fiance live in Burnaby and go to Simon Frazier University; she comes home once a month to see her doctor (a workers comp situation) so I haven't visited them too often but plan on it) ...

Ok ... back to work ....

K

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:50 pm

The only thing that is real is what is left when belief disappears .... What comes up is that feeling of space ... the dream-like observer. There is a stillness, it's not numb, just quiet and I notice that I'm looking out from my eyes ... LOl ... Love that ...

If I stopped believing in Karolyn ... there is nothing there ... LOL .... "Karolyn" is just an idea.

You know whats interesting .. (I love how life helps one along with this) ... yesterday my son had a melt down, he's bi-polar and I found myself stepping into the middle of his ranting .. attempting to bring sanity and rescue my 9 year old grandson from the mayhem. Now that is a scene I've played many times from childhood, during my first marriage and now with my son (hello Groundhog Day) .... My nervous system fires up and off I go to fix things and stop the chaos. All the while I was reacting I was also watching the event unfold. Of course, as always there wasn't a fix to be had.

Throughout the night I began to see that this "Karolyn" has a belief that gives her identity ... victim, martyr, rescuer ... she has a "job" ... This wasn't totally new I've seen this pattern from the vantage point of the belief of Karolyn ... I've not seen it from the distance of the observer watching ...

The question came up ... who would I be if I didn't rescue/fix ... what would happen to other people if I didn't jump in and rescue them. There is so much adrenaline and drama in this "Karolyn" ... she has a purpose ... a job. This feels "alive" .. but not in a good way.

When I drop the belief called "Karolyn" ... the quiet that remains feels passive... feels no urge to judge, to rescue, to control ... it feels alive too , but in a different way.

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:37 am

Hello Karolyn, wow, you are really observing the clues here, like a sleuth on a mission to discover the truth. Love this--a teacher of mine once said all it takes is sincerity to wake up. I see real sincerity here. Yay!

You are seeing the complexes psychologicially that drive the "I" karolyn to fix, react, feel alive in crisis etc. But don't stop there, or all you will have is a really healthy well trained illusory I--a happier dream, but a dream nonetheless. My big learning was nothing ever really gets "fixed" in the illusion, not my psyche and certainly no one elses that I have tried to fix. :-) It's like you fix one habit/pattern, and another thing breaks. Treadmill, that one.

So let's jump right off that treadmill,,,,let's go deep fast here, which is what you came for.

You said spaciousness and stillness is arising when you disbelieve there is an "I" called Karolyn.

You also say "a dream like observer" when referencing the stillness...and you also note that "I notice I'm looking out from my eyes." Now, I know this one too, it was big for me when I went through the gate, this sense of "looking out from." But here's the rub, a little nit pick to consider: Is it possible there is no "I" at all looking out from Karolyn's eyeballs, but rather there is simply looking happening? That the spaciousness arising is because the big fat "I has gotten out of the foreground and wooosh, space is here!? Noisy "I" gets seen as unreal as whoosh, stillness is here? (and always has been).

Does there need to be an "I" who is still or spacious? Really sit with this?

A. If you stop believing in the stillness/spaciousness, does it remain?

B. If you stop believing in the "I who is...still, spacious etc, does that I remain?

Which is real? A or B? (Don't you love mutlitple choice enlightenment homework)

You are doing great, You are so close to crossing through the gate (no gate)!

hugs,

Lori Ann

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby Karolyn » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:50 am

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your guidance ... I have never been able to keep asking myself my own questions, as a result, the process of deepening would quickly dissapate and I would be back on Prisoners Island with my first emotional reaction.

... I completely GET the treadmill idea of fixing the dream. Aint gonna happen but I sure thought "I" could. There is no question that what spaciousness and stillness remains when the idea of Karolyn dissolves ... and that seeing happens without an I ... I have glimpses of that for sure. I also can see that the biggest trigger that pulls the I back into action centers around my grandson when it "appears" he is struggling with his parents. As I said, this is not a new frame ... I tried to rescue my brother as a child ... tried (and somewhat succeeded) in rescuing my children from their abusive father ... now here's my grandson .... Good lord .. enough already of this repetition.

Today as he was having a big misunderstanding with his father I stood in the fire and did what i could to find that spaciousness .. that "no I" place .... in some ways it felt heartless but I know better. But this is a significant drama that is engrained and the sense is that I need to do something. Yet, the knowing that there is nothing to be done is growing.

Yes, I am sincere ... and am willing to step off the treadmill ... even if my heart feels like it's being torn by the idea that a child needs my rescuing ... LOL ... I know it's an illusion ... and quite honestly I'm tired of seeing the same story on the screen ... I doubt I have much power to do anything at all ... just trying to fix my own sadness perhaps ... the illusion anyway ....

You have given me deep and mindful questions that I will take the weekend to be with ... (wish I could be on a retreat where I had nothing else to do but ponder ... but Life is presenting something else, which is perfect) ... tomorrow going to LA to see my other daughter for her birthday ... Chop Wood, Carry Water ...

Thank you again for your guidance ... I'll probably post again on Sunday ...

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Re: Hi Karolyn, this is your thread, jump on in

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:39 am

Life itsel is the perfect lesson plan, all things conspire for one outcome...so enjoy your weekened Karolyn, and remember -- it's all gateways, every moment is a gateway. Nothing is not here, for you, to step through to what has always been here....

I laugh when I tell people: I woke up from exhaustion with the dream...and yes, the patterns that get boring after a time instead of captivatingly distracting. There are beautiful parallels here, of my dream self with yours!

Have a great weekend in the dream. Talk when you are next ready...

hugs

Lori Ann


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