I Need an Experienced Guide

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I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:49 pm

Hello,
 
I am seeking an experienced guide (the redder the better).  I don’t want to pick one because I’m sure you are all very busy and I don’t want to pressure someone into helping.  I think it would be best if I could be assigned a guide who is skilled at focusing the client on the investigation of direct experience.
 
I recently completed a six-week thread on this website with a novice guide, but became frustrated due to a lack of progress.  My guide tried very hard and I am extremely grateful for her efforts.  But I think I need a fresh start with someone with more experience, perhaps even with experience with cases where clients have gotten “stuck”.
 
If the administrators could assign an appropriate guide to me (or one could volunteer), I’d appreciate it very much.
 
Thanks!
 

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:10 am

Hi.

I read your previous thread. You seem to think, that seeing or not seeing depends on a guide. No. It only depends on you LOOKING. A guide, red or blue, is just a guide that is pointing you to look. It is up to you to look or not. It is up to you how hard case you decide you are. If you wanna play a hard nut- it's your game to play. No one is here to convince you otherwise. In truth, you don't need a guide. All you need is to look for yourself, and that's it.

Your expectations are in the way of seeing. As long as you hold on to what this should be like, you will not see what this IS.

If you like to work with me, I suggest you bring up all your expectations one by one, and then more, all the hidden ones and put them all down here.
What you expect should be differen?
What do you think that seeing no self should feel like?
What you don't want this to be?
What benefits are you hoping for?
What should be different?

Cleaning your house is your own business. Guide can only hold focus. You do the work, for yourself, by yourself, for the love of truth.

Agreed?

Kind regards.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:51 pm

Hi Ilona,

I am honored that you are willing to take my case. I see that you are not pulling any punches, and I appreciate that.
You seem to think, that seeing or not seeing depends on a guide. No. It only depends on you LOOKING. A guide, red or blue, is just a guide that is pointing you to look. It is up to you to look or not. It is up to you how hard case you decide you are. If you wanna play a hard nut- it's your game to play. No one is here to convince you otherwise. In truth, you don't need a guide. All you need is to look for yourself, and that's it.
Understood.
Your expectations are in the way of seeing. As long as you hold on to what this should be like, you will not see what this IS.
Ok.
If you like to work with me, I suggest you bring up all your expectations one by one, and then more, all the hidden ones and put them all down here.
Yes, I would like to work with you. I will do my best to describe my expectations.
What you expect should be differen?
I expect that the sense of self that I usually have should be gone. What that implies in the long term is to be determined.
What do you think that seeing no self should feel like?
I am under the impression that I felt this before and that it should feel like that again. What it felt like before was like there was just awareness of what was happening and no one there. It seemed that there was a hole where the self was previously. Then the hole filled in and I went back to “normal”.
What you don't want this to be?
I don’t want this to be a belief. I don’t want this to be something that goes away and becomes just a memory. It needs to be a permanent change. Otherwise, what is the point?
What benefits are you hoping for?
Originally, my goal was to eliminate my suffering. But if bad feelings and thoughts are going to continue, and the only difference will be that there is no "me" to whom they happen, then that is fine. But that goal is secondary now. My primary goal is to see the truth, where ever that leads. This investigation is consuming me.
What should be different?
The only requirement for this investigation is that I need to know the truth.

That is all I have right now regarding expectations. I can speculate about what may or may not happen as a result of this investigation, but I wouldn't characterize those speculations as expectations. If you need more information about expectations, could you please ask me some more questions? They are helpful to guide my thinking.
Cleaning your house is your own business. Guide can only hold focus. You do the work, for yourself, by yourself, for the love of truth.

Agreed?
I absolutely agree. I want you to know that I am going to put everything I have into this.

Thank you again for your time.

Brent

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:00 pm

Good stuff.. Looks you are ripe and ready. Are you?

When you say " I expect that the sense of self that I usually have should be gone. What that implies in the long term is to be determined. "
What exactly is this sense of self that you are talking about? Where is it felt, how do you know that is self that you are experiencing, not a frustration, resistance or fear? Find this sense and look at it. When it's felt strongly, look behind, what is there?

What if it's not a sense of self, but just a raw sensation of energy? What if the labelling of sensation [ sense of self ] creates an illusion of an entity?

A state where no self is felt is just a state. It comes and goes. Same way that any state. Sensations are never permanent. Have a look in experience, can you find a permanent sensation?
Look- breath in, breat out. Continues by itself.
Expansion, contraction, expansion, contraction. Feeling great, feeling sad, it's a flux, movement, flow of experiencing.
What do you expect to become permanent?

You can watch a movie and get sucked into the story, right? Feel emotions, identify with characters. At any point you can zoom out and know it's a movie. If you know it's a movie, you still can enjoy the story and get sucked in again and again. Same here. Everything is included. Nothing is permanent.

Recognition is always available here now. Just get to looking. What is here now? Anyone home?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:28 pm

Hi Ilona,
Good stuff.. Looks you are ripe and ready. Are you?
Yes, I am ripe and ready.
When you say " I expect that the sense of self that I usually have should be gone. What that implies in the long term is to be determined. "
What exactly is this sense of self that you are talking about?
It is the sense that there is someone here who is doing things and to whom things happen. It is the sense of “I AM”.
Where is it felt, how do you know that is self that you are experiencing, not a frustration, resistance or fear?
It feels like it is centered somewhere in my upper chest or head area. It doesn’t really feel like a frustration, resistance or fear.
Find this sense and look at it. When it's felt strongly, look behind, what is there?
When I try to look behind it, the sense of self dissipates and then the idea of “behind it” becomes ill-defined.
What if it's not a sense of self, but just a raw sensation of energy? What if the labelling of sensation [ sense of self ] creates an illusion of an entity?
I guess this is possible. I need to look into this more.
A state where no self is felt is just a state. It comes and goes. Same way that any state. Sensations are never permanent. Have a look in experience, can you find a permanent sensation?
I have never had a permanent sensation.
Look- breath in, breat out. Continues by itself.
Expansion, contraction, expansion, contraction. Feeling great, feeling sad, it's a flux, movement, flow of experiencing.
What do you expect to become permanent?
I have previously stopped identifying with thoughts, emotions, the sense of doership, and the sense that things are happening to a “me”. On several occasions, this lasted for between hours and days. From reading books and accounts of other people’s experiences, I was led to believe that this would become my natural state.
You can watch a movie and get sucked into the story, right? Feel emotions, identify with characters. At any point you can zoom out and know it's a movie. If you know it's a movie, you still can enjoy the story and get sucked in again and again. Same here. Everything is included. Nothing is permanent.
I understand what you are saying.
Recognition is always available here now. Just get to looking.
I am looking. But I’m not totally clear on what I am looking for.
What is here now? Anyone home?
It seems like there is still a sense of doership here right now. My user name was created as an exercise in positive thinking.

Brent

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:14 pm

Ilona,

In my last post I said that I'm not totally clear on what I'm looking for. I just wanted to let you know that I've been looking at the LU pointers app and have gotten some good ideas from that. But of course I'd be happy for any specific direction that you'd like to provide as well.

Thanks,

Brent

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby Ilona » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:26 am

Hey Brent.
Yes, good you found the app! Keep working with it.

You say " It is the sense that there is someone here who is doing things and to whom things happen. It is the sense of “I AM”."
Is the sense of I AM, sense of being, experiencer? Is everything happening to this sensation?

When you are looking at this, what is here now, can you see something that isn't here?
Can you see a unicorn in the room?
Can you see an absence of unicorn?
Does it even make sense to look for imaginary creature?

Just to be clear, don't look for something. Look AT what is here now and describe what is seen. It's not like looking for shoes. Shoes can be found if they got lost in the house. Self was never lost, it does not exist, like the unicorn.

So instead of focusing on what isn't here, look at what is. It's not hidden, it's right here.
This that is here now, are you the one that is making this happen? Or it's here effortlessly without any of your management?

Write what you find.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:43 pm

Hi Ilona,

I don't have time to answer your whole post right now, but I want to ask for clarification on your instructions. I will address the rest of your post later.

You said I should focus on what is here now rather than looking directly for the self, correct? Based on other LU instructions, I have spent a lot of time to this point looking for direct evidence of the self. But you are telling me to focus instead on what is definitely here now, and then look to see if I am the doer or experiencer? This is an indirect method of looking for the self. Is this a fair summary of your instructions?

I just want to make sure that I am doing this right.

Thanks,

Brent

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby Ilona » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:32 pm

We are no longer looking for the self. We are looking at what is. Focusing on what IS rather then what has never been found. Just a shift of focus, part of programme. :)

Look at what is obvious already. Notice what is happening, how it's happening, dive into experience. Can not be more direct then that.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:09 pm

Hi Ilona,

I am following your instructions. I am out of town with the family until tomorrow evening. I will provide a complete report when I return.

Brent

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:51 am

Hi Ilona,

I will now address the remainder of your last two posts.
Is the sense of I AM, sense of being, experiencer? Is everything happening to this sensation?
This is an excellent question. It doesn’t make sense to say that things are happening to a sensation. This was important for me to see.
When you are looking at this, what is here now, can you see something that isn't here?
No.
Can you see a unicorn in the room?
No.
Can you see an absence of unicorn?
I can’t see absence as a tangible thing, but I can see that there is no unicorn.
Does it even make sense to look for imaginary creature?
I think it makes sense if I want to rule out the imaginary creature.
Just to be clear, don't look for something. Look AT what is here now and describe what is seen. It's not like looking for shoes. Shoes can be found if they got lost in the house. Self was never lost, it does not exist, like the unicorn.

So instead of focusing on what isn't here, look at what is. It's not hidden, it's right here.
I have been doing this yesterday and today.
This that is here now, are you the one that is making this happen? Or it's here effortlessly without any of your management?
It appears to be happening effortlessly, without any management.
We are no longer looking for the self. We are looking at what is. Focusing on what IS rather then what has never been found. Just a shift of focus, part of programme. :)


Look at what is obvious already. Notice what is happening, how it's happening, dive into experience. Can not be more direct then that
So this is what I have been doing, focusing my attention on what is happening and how.
Write what you find.
I have found that things seem to be flowing pretty freely. I don’t feel like I’m putting as much effort into doing things. I am just doing whatever needs to be done without thinking about it so much or wishing I could do something else instead (which is what I usually do). I have been more willing to volunteer to do things that I wouldn’t normally want to do, because who cares, its not me doing it anyway. It is just happening.

Also, annoyances of minor to moderate significance don’t seem to be bothering me as much for the last couple of days. However, no major problems have come up to test me.

I have tried to focus my attention on what is happening in direct experience. I still find myself getting sucked into daydreaming or conceptualizing at times, but not as much as normal. I feel like I’ve been more aware of sensations. The sense of self doesn’t feel as strong. When people talk to me, I feel more like this body and mind are fulfilling an expected social role, and that they aren’t really part of an individual entity.

Hopefully that information is helpful to define what I should do next. I will continue what I have been doing in the meantime.

Thanks for your time, Ilona!

Brent

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby Ilona » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:32 am

Hey Brent, looks like something is shifting. :)

How is intensity of seeking? Is it still strong or it dropped?

It's a good time to spend an hour in nature, observing how everything moves and wiggles interdependently with everything else. Just sit somewhere and watch the movement of totality. See how it includes everything- wind, clouds, trees, people, grass, sensations, thoughts, focus... - all moves. Is there anything that is making this move? Is there anything in experience, that is a doer? How about daydreaming, is this something you do or it too happens like all the rest? Is there a boundary that separates whole movement into tiny pockets of separate selves?

Write what you notice from observing nature.


Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:35 pm

Hi Ilona,

You said:
Hey Brent, looks like something is shifting. :)
Maybe. I’m not sure. My mind is throwing up a lot of doubts (see below).
How is intensity of seeking? Is it still strong or it dropped?
I’m glad you asked. It seems like the intensity has dropped significantly over the last couple of days. My thoughts say that this is a cause for concern because the most tangible success that I have had is when I had the strong experiences of no-self. Those experiences were brought on by intensely looking for the self, constantly reading through LU threads and performing the exercises described there, and basically doing everything I could to really push for an understanding. I was spending all of my free time on this and having trouble sleeping because the search was so intense.

So I’m not sure what to do. Should I be trying to trigger these no-self experiences? I haven’t had any for a couple of weeks, first because I got sick and wasn’t able to focus on the search, and then since I started working with you I have been following your instructions rather than pushing as hard as I could to look for the self. It is hard for me to feel confident that I am on the right path if I’m not trying to trigger these no-self experiences, because they are the clearest indication that I have had that there truly is no self.

I will spend some time in nature and report back to you, but please address my concern.

Thanks,

Brent

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby Ilona » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:42 pm

Should I be trying to trigger these no-self experiences?
What?? Do you still think you are the one that is in control of what is happening and have power to trigger no-self experiences? If so, what are you actually in control of?

It is written all over LU that seeing is not a state, it has nothing to do with a state. It's recognition. States come and go and this is not about chasing dreams, it's about recognising what is true in any experience.

You can not go into a state that happened before. There is always just one state- the present one, right here right now. It's ok to relax. Enough of state chasing. :)

Looking forward to your report from the nature.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: I Need an Experienced Guide

Postby NoOneHome » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:10 pm

Ilona,

Thank you for the quick response.
Should I be trying to trigger these no-self experiences?
What?? Do you still think you are the one that is in control of what is happening and have power to trigger no-self experiences? If so, what are you actually in control of?
I’m sorry to disappoint you :(. But I never claimed that I 100% no longer feel like I am in control. If I did feel that way, then I’d be through the gate, and I don’t think I am through the gate. I guess I still feel like I have the power to trigger no-self experiences by investigating the self as I described above. I’m not sure what you meant by your question “what are you actually in control of?” On the one hand, I feel like I am in control of whatever I do. On the other hand, when I look closely, it appears that things happen without a "me" doing them. It is confusing!
It is written all over LU that seeing is not a state, it has nothing to do with a state. It's recognition. States come and go and this is not about chasing dreams, it's about recognising what is true in any experience.
Ok.
You can not go into a state that happened before. There is always just one state- the present one, right here right now. It's ok to relax. Enough of state chasing. :)
Ok.
Looking forward to your report from the nature.
I will post about nature later today.

Thanks again,

Brent


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