Seeking a Guide : )

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Kallie
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Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:48 pm

Hello & thank you all. I accept & understand the idea, the fact that there is no separate “me”.
A few days ago, I threw my hands up & surrendered and accepted what is. I have some physical issues, perhaps life threatening. Upon the waving of the white flag, it dawned on me that I had still been attached to “my” separate mind. Now if there is no separateness, there also cannot be a separate mind. It is all one, consciousness, life. I think I got tripped up by claiming & running with thoughts as my own. Literally trying to “own” them.

There are many ideas that encourage that your thoughts create your life & it seems that I have had experience of that from both angles, perceived good & not so good. Thoughts are just thoughts until we place importance on them. So many float by in a day, who chooses which ones to pick up & run with?

I need clarification here. Help? Anyone?

I have & am reading Gatecrashers, am willing to be as brutally honest as possible & can provide more back story if needed.

I am located in the US, east coast. Happy Thanksgiving for all those that are celebrating & thank you to anyone who may offer to help me!

Many Thanks.

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goneforgood
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby goneforgood » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:31 pm

Hi Kallie,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Robin and I am here to guide you.

If you haven't already done so, please read our introductory information, our disclaimer, and watch the short video here:
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Once you confirm that you have seen all of the above, and that you would like me to be your guide, we shall begin.

Thankyou Kallie.

Looking forward to working with you.
Robin

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Kallie
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:31 pm

Good morning Robin! Thank you so much for offering to be my guide and assist me. I have read & watched the video.
Am ready to begin, though today, due to the holiday will be busy, still ready whenever you are.

With much gratitude,
Kallie

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goneforgood
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby goneforgood » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:30 pm

Good Morning, Kallie, and a belated Thanksgiving to you.

It is my pleasure to be guiding you here, and I thank you for responding so promptly.

So that our time together is spent as effectively as possible, a few Ground Rules:

1. You agree to post at least once a day (and I will do likewise). If you are unable to attend to a full response within a day, please inform me here on this thread, and I will do the same for you.
2. In general, I will ask the questions and you will respond.
3. Responses require your utmost honesty. There are no right or wrong answers –simply what is true in your experience.
4. Responses are best from Direct Experience (your present felt senses – seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, feeling - and your observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and can hinder your progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc., for the duration of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is, here and now. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue with that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function. Instructions are located here:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Please confirm your agreement to these.

I live in Australia, so our Time Zones are different. While you sleep, I read and respond. While I sleep, you read, enquire and respond. A nice balance.

With Love,
Robin

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Kallie
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:41 am

Hi Robin,

Yes, to all of the above.

I will do my best to answer as honestly as possible & as for putting aside all other teachings, not a problem, I am so fried & I was done. Just when I decided to take a break I came across The Gatecrashes on a Facebook feed & the questions resonated with me, so this is it. I have no formal training in anything. I've been a dabbler most of my life, mostly via solo reading. I've never been to a retreat or a workshop. I do have an at home yoga & meditation practice, but again, I am fairly loose about things in general. I recently attended my first live satsang a couple of weeks ago, though I've watched quite a few of Mooji's. This year I did the 12 steps via Al Anon & A Course in Miracles. Both of them have shed much light on the stories of the mind, etc. and it's been quite amazing.

I I look forward to doing this with a bit of excitement & trepidation, but I am committed ( or should be )!
Just kidding.

By the way, for the sake of true honesty the name given this entity upon arrival is Karen. Kallie was one of my dogs & just a default name I've used before in a game. I am 53 years old, & although I may have some issues I am healthy. C'est la vie~ Have a great day!

With Love & Hugs,
Karen

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goneforgood
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby goneforgood » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:46 am

Hello Karen.

Thankyou for introducing yourself so freely and openly. Yes, I was “fried and done” too before finding LU. That surrender, and willingness to leave aside all that you thought you knew, is the perfect space in which to begin this enquiry.

So, to begin, we’re going to look at Expectations. These can hinder our ability to see because we think we KNOW what it should look like, or feel like, or what should happen. For those of us who have been “seeking” for many years, there can be a build-up of preconceptions about liberation, often accompanied by a feeling of or belief in not ever “getting there”.

We want to uncover these first so we can acknowledge them, and put them aside.

So here’s today’s question:
I’d like you to describe to me your expectations for liberation. How will it feel? How will it change you? Put everything “on the table”. What do you expect liberation will do for you?

When answering, please “quote” the question then write your answer underneath. If that proves a problem, please bold type the question instead.

A suggestion on using this forum: Sometimes, during a more lengthy reply, this webpage can time out…..taking all your carefully written post with it. Many of us here write our response in Word, or Notebook or similar, then copy and paste on the board when ready. You might like to use this method too, to save any mishaps.

Thankyou Karen.
Speak again soon.
With Love,
Robin
PS: I’m glad you are healthy! And yes, let’s both have a great day!!

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Kallie
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:13 pm

Hi Robin,
So here’s today’s question:
I’d like you to describe to me your expectations for liberation. How will it feel? How will it change you? Put everything “on the table”. What do you expect liberation will do for you?


The reason that I thought to give this a shot is in an effort to be done with this for once & for all. I’m tired, tired of thinking about it, life, death, consciousness, etc.

Potential Expectations: Peace (which I do have). A knowing with unshakable certainty and without doubt. Fearlessness, no matter what comes my way.

How will it feel? Relief since I will have ceased thinking about it.

How will it change me?
More energy to just be.

What do I expect liberation will do for me? Free me from my mind.

I feel as though little mind is not trustworthy.

Thanks again! Hope this message goes thru correctly! Chat soon~
Love,
Karen

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goneforgood
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby goneforgood » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:19 am

Hi Karen.

Well done. I appreciate your clear straightforward answers.

Some or all or none of your expectations may eventuate with liberation. There are no promises here. Our purpose is to see no self. What occurs after that is entirely individual.

It may be that we revisit some of these expectations as we go along, but for now, please put them all aside and bring your full attention to these questions:

What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there, nor will there ever be?

Here and now, what does the word “I” or “me” point to? What does it refer to in direct experience (your felt senses and observed thoughts)? Please describe in detail. Does it have a size, a shape, a quality?

I look forward to hearing from you soon.
With Love,
Robin

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Kallie
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:38 pm

Hi Robin,
I light up when I get a response from you! I feel it is a privilege and a gift to be doing this inquiry. No turning back now.

What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there, nor will there ever be?

I am mesmerized by this & how & why it has stay buried in a belief, a story for so many ions. There is no me, there is no you. We are all one giant organism, the universe, life, God. We are so enmeshed in the pattern of life, that we cannot see, or don’t want to see. I’ve gotten this for a long time, but this year on a much deeper level, as the ego has been called out in a way that it never has been seen before. This is all just one giant made up story that seems to feel so real. Many years ago when I first realized something like this, I was eating a piece of chicken & I thought, cool, I’m eating myself. Well, I thought it was funny & profound.

Here and now, what does the word “I” or “me” point to? What does it refer to in direct experience (your felt senses and observed thoughts)? Please describe in detail. Does it have a size, a shape, a quality?

I tend to think of capitalized I for big self, life, consciousness, God, etc... and little i for the vessel called Karen. For the sake of some semblance of grammar, I will just go with regular language. The "essence" of little i, or me, no, it has no shape, size or observable quality. There is a body, which for the most part is on auto pilot. No thing tells it to breathe, walk, be tired or awake, be hungry. If I were in charge I wouldn’t have woken up hungry at 3am this morning! LOL. There is a personality (which I hope we get to discuss more of). There are thoughts, but whoever, whatever i am, this is, there is no one, no thing in charge of them as they often randomly come & go BUT I look forward & hope we can discuss the part of whatever we are that seems to choose or decide which ones to take & run with. Thinking & thoughts is an area where it seems I have gotten a little hung up on. Who, what is thinking? If great thoughts & break throughs of scientists & composers are admitted to come from a source, a field, then do not all come from this place? Again, it is the decision maker that I seem to be interested in investigating.

Here are a couple of recent things that I recall. One day maybe three months ago I was out hiking in the woods alone. I was troubled in my mind about my mother & decided to have a conversation with my grandmother (who has long since moved on). During our conversation (which is obviously going on in my head) she kind of said, you know Karen you are talking to yourself, on more than one level, not just the conversation in my head but literally. LOL. I said, yes I did realize that. Up until that point I may have still believed that she & I were separate souls/entities if you will, but at that moment I realized that here, there, everywhere, anywhere, there is just one.

Other interesting observations occurred to my while I was going thru chemo & my hair was in various degrees of change. Whenever I looked into the mirror I only saw SELF. I was almost oblivious to the changes going on. It’s like whoever I am doesn’t change, only the costume does. I also observed that I could be standing directly in front of someone I have had direct conversation with & they did not recognize me without my standard costume, identity. Showed me how the mind/brain processes. I told a friend that it was like being invisible, I didn’t mind it, was just an observation.

Well, there you have it for today. As always I look forward to the next round of Q & A.
Thank you for doing this with me/us~!
Much Love Big Hugs,
Karen

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goneforgood
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby goneforgood » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:49 am

Hello Dearest Karen,

Thankyou. I look forward to your postings with pleasure too. It is a privilege all round, I feel. That you should arrive as I stand ready to guide ….. who can fathom?
We are so enmeshed in the pattern of life, that we cannot see, or don’t want to see.
Indeed we are. We are here to look closely at this “pattern of life”, to see what is REALLY there.
This is all just one giant made up story that seems to feel so real.
Yes it is. Belief is a powerful illusion – until we see it is only a belief.
The "essence" of little i, or me, no, it has no shape, size or observable quality.
How did you discover this? I am interested.
There is a personality (which I hope we get to discuss more of).
What is this personality you speak of? When you LOOK, can you locate it anywhere? Is it a separate thing? Please describe it for me.
There are thoughts, but whoever, whatever i am, this is, there is no one, no thing in charge of them as they often randomly come & go
Good observation! As ephemeral as clouds in the sky.
it is the decision maker that I seem to be interested in investigating.
Here is an exercise for you:
Take two objects/possibilities of which you might ordinarily choose e.g.: tea or coffee, blue pen or black pen, salt or pepper. Sit with these objects in front of you, and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

Now, take a look at this short video concerning choice and free will:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6S9OidmNZM
Who, what is thinking? If great thoughts & break throughs of scientists & composers are admitted to come from a source, a field, then do not all come from this place? Again, it is the decision maker that I seem to be interested in investigating.
This is an example of mind wanting an explanation; wanting to “nail it down”. In LU our only purpose is in guiding you to see no self. It is not our intent here to answer the mind’s questions.
Here are a couple of recent things that I recall.
and
Other interesting observations
…………are memories. Thoughts about the past. To the best of your ability, keep you focus on your Direct Experience in this here now moment. It is HERE that is REAL, NOW. This is the only place – EVER – that you can look and see what is true for you.

To assist you in understanding Direct Experience, let me describe mine for you:
There’s a buzzing in my chest, the ends of my fingers tingle, there is pressure under my thighs as I sit on this chair, my hair moves gently in the breeze coming through the window, I breathe in, I breathe out, my lips tingle, palms of hands feel warm, there’s a rhythmic beat in my chest, ………….

I did not think about my experience. I simply described its presence. Do you see the distinction?

I hope that helps.

With great love and appreciation,
Robin

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Kallie
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:10 am

The "essence" of little i, or me, no, it has no shape, size or observable quality. How did you discover this? I am interested. I cannot say for sure. Who am I? What am I? A clump of molecules seemingly acting on all of their own impulses. Mind, brain cannot be noticeably engaged in many if not most of these activities, they just happen, although at times it seems interchangeable, where a thought may arise first & then a bodily impulse may follow. Where am I? Nowhere. Everywhere.

What is this personality you speak of? When you LOOK, can you locate it anywhere? Is it a separate thing? Please describe it for me. No, it is not a separate thing, part of the whole no thing package. Ideas, beliefs, images, stories. Life manifesting & experiencing in various ways & from various vantage points. Function of brain, mind, experience? Seems to be maybe a combination. Seems to be maybe memory has an awful lot to do with who & what we become & dismantling the old stories, whew, what a task!

Here is an exercise for you:
Take two objects/possibilities of which you might ordinarily choose e.g.: tea or coffee, blue pen or black pen, salt or pepper. Sit with these objects in front of you, and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.
It seems to me that the choice point comes from memory & preference based on that memory at this stage of life. BUT when we are faced with a choice about something we have no known knowledge of? Search the data base? Trial & error? A baby is taught. Video will have to watch again. Did it insinuate that everything is on auto pilot? Would have to be. If there is no separate self. Interesting & Liberating if we can believe it. Never worry about a thing again, as there is no control. When does the madness end ? One thought stacked upon another. LOL. Crap. Gonna have to look at preferences now too I guess & just what they are! LOL.

Direct Experience. Right Here Right Now. I see what you are saying. Back achy from crouching over computer. Eyes tired & sleepy. Full Belly. Coolness of mint lip balm. TV loud in background from football game. Body tired and ready for bed. Hot. Right here right now. Good mantra. Stay present. Typing to much. I can see the detachment when we simply observe without saying I, me or my. This morning I just looked around the room, just looked & tried not to label or name anything. It’s tough to simply observe, the brain, mind is always wanting to do something.

This is getting harder Robin! I hope I’m not going to go crazier during this process! In all seriousness now, I feel as though some more light has been shed on memory & the role it plays, so thanks!

Bring on the next round! Your willing & hopeful gatecrasher to be, or not, either way, believe it or not, I am enjoying the process as frustrating as it might be.
Namaste & Buenos Noches~
Senor or Senorita?
X0X
Karen

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Kallie
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:52 pm

Almost 1pm EST. Irritation arising. Breathe. Not important. Breathe. Close eyes. Relax. Digestion churning. Shoulders tense. Urgghhh. Feeling incredibly human, buying into story. How to stop? Going for a walk. House cleaning can wait!

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goneforgood
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby goneforgood » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:40 pm

Hi Karen,

My apologies if this post is a little late. Today has been busier than expected.

I will send my reply to your last 2 posts within the next 12 hours.

I hope you are feeling more relaxed than your last post indicated.....and that your walk was enjoyable. Take it gently for now, and I'll speak with you soon.

With Love,
Robin

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goneforgood
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby goneforgood » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:19 pm

Good work, Karen. Remember that what you are looking to see is that a separate You does not exist. Simply that.

You say:
The "essence" of little i, or me, no, it has no shape, size or observable quality.
So, does it exist, then? Yes or no?

Do you see that following on from that, you went into thinking about it? Yet, when you look directly, what you SEE is that you cannot find a self. Thoughts about molecules and mind/brain activity are just thoughts. Thoughts exist. They come and they go. But the content of thoughts is imagination: words and images. So, when you engage with the content of thought, you are engaging in imagination – not reality as you experience it here and now.
A clump of molecules seemingly acting on all of their own impulses. Mind, brain cannot be noticeably engaged in many if not most of these activities,


Which activities? Are you referring to the actual Choice Point exercise? Because the way I read this, it sounds as if you did many activities.

Please do the exercise again, and this time report back to me what you are choosing between and what occurs, moment by moment. Just one focused, deliberate exercise. Get right inside the experience and watch what’s happening. Watch the sensations in your body. Describe them. Feel the subtle impulses to go one way or the other. Is there hesitation? Doubt? Be scrupulous in your observation. When exactly is the choice made? Can you find it?

What is this personality you speak of? When you LOOK, can you locate it anywhere? Is it a separate thing? Please describe it for me. No, it is not a separate thing, part of the whole no thing package. Ideas, beliefs, images, stories.
Are ideas, beliefs, images and stories real, or just a whole bunch of thoughts? Take a look. If personality is just a story, what substance is there to it?

Notice too, how an action or activity occurs, followed by thought creating a story or explanation about it. Recognise the distinction between the action itself, (the hand moves, the body gets up from chair, the head turns, the eyes blink) and then your story about it (“because……………”). Notice how the story makes no difference to what actually happens. What happens is real. What you think about it is not real. Get really clear on this.
Life manifesting & experiencing in various ways & from various vantage points. Function of brain, mind, experience? Seems to be maybe a combination. Seems to be maybe memory has an awful lot to do with who & what we become & dismantling the old stories, whew, what a task!
A whole lot of thinking going on here. Stay with your direct observed experience in the present moment. Look at what is there, not what you think about it.
It seems to me that the choice point comes from memory & preference based on that memory at this stage of life.
You are speculating. I want to hear you say “I see…….”
BUT when we are faced with a choice about something we have no known knowledge of? Search the data base? Trial & error? A baby is taught.

This is all thinking again.
Video will have to watch again. Did it insinuate that everything is on auto pilot? Would have to be. If there is no separate self. Interesting & Liberating if we can believe it.

This is not about believing there is no separate self. It’s SEEING that it does not exist in real, direct experience.
Direct Experience. Right Here Right Now. I see what you are saying. Back achy from crouching over computer. Eyes tired & sleepy. Full Belly. Coolness of mint lip balm. TV loud in background from football game. Body tired and ready for bed. Hot. Right here right now. Good mantra. Stay present.
Good noticing! Stay with it.
This morning I just looked around the room, just looked & tried not to label or name anything.

Good. LOOK and see. Is there a seer or is there just seeing happening? Can you find the seer? Look. Look. Look.
This is getting harder Robin! I hope I’m not going to go crazier during this process!
It is simple and right in front of your nose. Can you see a self or not?
In all seriousness now, I feel as though some more light has been shed on memory & the role it plays, so thanks!
Don’t go off into thinking and theorising. You will not find Liberation there. Stay with looking at what you see and experience with your own senses, here, now. Search for the self. Give it everything you’ve got. Burn for it!

I look forward to your next report, full of direct observation, dear Karen. Keep going for those walks, and enjoy!

With Love,
Robin
PS: I am a senorita! 

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Kallie
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Re: Seeking a Guide : )

Postby Kallie » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:00 pm

Hi Robin,
I was able to read your message yesterday on my phone but I could not respond. I did however do the exercise below & I documented it on a napkin or two.

Riding in car. Pen to write on napkin. Cars & trucks on road.Lots of trees. Music playing. Dirty car. Stomach growling. Thirsty.Warm seat.Breathing in & out. Billboards & bridges. Cranes & construction. Truck smoking. Vastness of open fields, billowing clouds and lake. Approaching city, big buildings. At hospital, hug greeter. People to & fro. Green walls. Calm. Waiting. People on phones & computers. Comfy chair. Glasses slipping down nose. Lots of poinsettias. TV playing. Body Chilly & tired. Recovery room. Food. Water. Smiling. Bandaids. Kind nurses. Some pressure on right side of body. Driving home. Music playing. Singing. Feeling joyful. Deer in field. Dog wagging tail. Hot tea & bed. Ahhhh.

Robin,this was a good exercise for me, no me. It showed me undeniably how the mind labels everything & it was ok, because it kept it in the present moment & not off into the future or into the past. If it were not for the sake of the exercise, just observing without labeling is wonderful.

I wrote this yesterday in the car. Right here right now, just observing, the essence of me/ no me is no different than the essence that is in the trees, the lake, the deer, the dog. It is all driven by the same essence, call it what you will, God, life, etc. It is an incredibly divine orchestration to observe & it and it felt like a wall crumbled with the seeing . When I just LOOKED, there was only life, coming & going, doing it’s thing. Feelings of giddiness & weeping at the same time. The brain/mind was seen in a way it hadn’t been before & now it can been seen for what it is, a labeler, a calculator, a processor, but that is it. It can be looked at with amusement now. It is not in charge, but can be seen as a useful tool when needed. There is some feeling of relief to have seen that the lights are on but no one is home. Yippee. There is no me & nothing to be in charge of.

It had been noticed for quite some time at how the structures of society are based upon believing whatever someone, some organization, religion is selling. How to be. What to think. What to eat. What to believe. All without ever questioning. A whole new layer has been deconstructed. Life takes care of life when we get out of the way.

Is there a me, was there ever, will there ever be? NO NO NO. There is a human vessel called Karen, who is filled with gratitude & awe.

I hope you are well & I look forward to your response.
With Love,
Karen


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