Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

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Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:03 pm

Hi, this is my request for a guide. I feel very ready to see through the illusion of a separate self and am very committed to doing so. I have been waking up over the last few years and recently I have been observing my thoughts persistently maintaining this sense of self in meditation and in everyday life. I feel like the next step for me is to let it go altogether, but I have not been able to do this and am still stuck under the illusion. I am very excited about this process and will be there everyday on it . I have a retreat in a couple of weeks for a week, so although I won't be able to post then, perhaps it will really give me a prolonged period to examine the pointers that have been laid out for me, and after that I will be on here everyday again, that is, if some very generous guide is here to help me :)

Peace and love :)

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Gomi » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:11 pm

Hi Charliemcsnarly! A warm welcome to you, dear one. My name is Gomi. It would be a pleasure to guide you. What would you like me to call you?

Before we begin, can you please share a little about the upcoming retreat that you are going on? What are your expectations in going on this retreat? What are your expectations in entering Liberation Unleashed? Why are you starting one process before you begin a new process? Do you feel something will be missing in one that you hope to have fulfilled in the other? If so, what?

Love,
Gomi
"Is it not possible that all of this happens without an "I"?...
Keep LOOKING into Direct Experience and SEE how things unfold."
Liberation Unleashed

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:35 pm

Hi Gomi,
Thank you for your warm reply and willingness to guide me. It is gratefully received and appreciated! You can call me Charlie if you like. :)

It is actually two different retreats that I am going on within the same week. The first is a weekend retreat with a theme of fearlessness. My reasons for going on this, as far as I can tell are quite simple. Firstly I have been allowed to go on it for free, to which I thought, ‘why not?’. Secondly it is the theme that interested me. I wish to let go of all fear, as all fear, as I can tell, is related directly to experiencing the world as a self, in danger in some way, which is an illusion. I feel that fear causes me a lot of emotional turmoil and inner conflict.

The second retreat is a working retreat, and my reasons as far as I am aware for going on this retreat, is that I simply wish to keep up a good momentum with meditation and spiritual contemplation, I wish to strengthen my sense of connectedness with others, and I wish to spend some time in nature, to gather my energies and clear my mind.

So, my expectations for the retreats are simply that, nothing profound, just to come back with better momentum and a strengthened practice , a clearer mind, and perhaps a better understanding on letting go of fear

My expectations for entering liberation unleashed are perhaps much greater. I have a strong desire to see things as they truly are. I watch my mind perpetuating a sense of self, which causes me a great deal of suffering, in the forms of fear, anxiety and depression, and in turn I cause suffering to others when I act out of these states of confusion. My whole practice at the moment is to watch the mind, and let go of, or disidentify from, these thoughts that create the story. I hope in entering this forum I will be guided to either completely see through the illusion of self and be able to drop it altogether, or at least seriously diminish it so I am no longer so heavily identified with my little story, and caught up in the noise and exhaustion of it all.

So I expect little from the retreats, that is why I have started this process now, because there is no real other process that I am doing at the moment, other than attempting to see things as they truly are, and drop the identification with my story.

I hope this answers your question of, please do tell me if I can answer things better. Thanks again and I look forward to your reply 
Peace and love
Charlie

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Gomi » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:04 am

Hi Charlie. There is a chuckle inside of me hearing your name. It's a name i really like. Playfulness comes from the premise that we will be working with seeing the illusion of self! :-)

Some preliminaries. Most you have already agreed to, but i just want to put it in place.
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.I am not here to judge you, but to point you. Answer from personal experience only. Do not try to be spiritually correct. This will only slow down the process.
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/ Let me know you agree to it.

Also a couple of very mundane points...
How to use the quote function:
1. Select the text to quote
2. Press the Quote button above the text edit field before and after the text to quote

Additionally:
1. You might find it helpful to click the 'subscribe topic' link at the bottom of the page, so you know when i post a reply
2. The site often logs you out while you write a reply. You can lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

A sharing of a pitfall i initially had with my guide. I wanted to have a guide and also a personal relationship with him. By doing that, acceptance and ego stroking were sought after. Obviously,this hinders the process of seeing through the illusion of no self. :-) Trust the process. I will be guiding you with questions and pointers. You answer them, based upon personal looking and experiencing. Inner wisdom arises naturally with looking. If i address you as consciousness, not personal story, your focus will be upon experiencing...which is why you are here.

So let's begin. Your sharing is very helpful. Being able to observe your thoughts and commitment to seeing through illusion of a separate self is a wonderful place to continue from. Just beautiful!
The next step is for me to let it go altogether
This sounds logical and a possible next step. However, let's let the process unfold naturally without planing. Doors will just open as the looking happens.
I wish to let go of all fear, as all fear, as I can tell, is related directly to experiencing the world as a self, in danger in some way, which is an illusion. I feel that fear causes me a lot of emotional turmoil and inner conflict.

What is your story about fear? Just look at it. Let whatever comes, come. Is fear the result of what is being thought? Is it personal? Ask it what it is protecting. What is it that it does not want you to find out? Thank it, and look behind the fear as if you would be taking a peek with curiosity. Ask the fear to reveal its wisdom. You do not have to fix it or change it. Just observe. What do you SEE? This is about experiencing. Intellectualizing will not open up doors that, using your words, "keep you stuck under the illusion." Really look, Charlie.

What comes up for you when i state, "There is no self at all in reality. No you that lives your life."
I have a strong desire to see things as they truly are.
Beautiful! Can you answer the 2 questions with the openness of that statement. :-) This is where the rubber meets the road!
My whole practice at the moment is to watch the mind, and let go of, or disidentify from, these thoughts that create the story.
You go for the gold! i will keep you on target and presence this statement many times.
I hope in entering this forum I will be guided to either completely see through the illusion of self and be able to drop it altogether, or at least seriously diminish it so I am no longer so heavily identified with my little story, and caught up in the noise and exhaustion of it all.
[/quote][/quote]

It’s simply about seeing what is real when you are not subject to the “I” illusion. Conditioning may still continue for a while but the illusion will be seen for what it is.

Love,
Gomi
"Is it not possible that all of this happens without an "I"?...
Keep LOOKING into Direct Experience and SEE how things unfold."
Liberation Unleashed

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:30 pm

Hi Gomi,

thank you very much for your tips, very helpful indeed. I will do my best to state exactly what I see/feel. Also I have read the disclaimer and I am happy with it and agree to it :)

So, in an attempt to answer your questions:
What is your story about fear? Just look at it. Let whatever comes, come. Is fear the result of what is being thought? Is it personal? Ask it what it is protecting. What is it that it does not want you to find out? Thank it, and look behind the fear as if you would be taking a peek with curiosity. Ask the fear to reveal its wisdom. You do not have to fix it or change it. Just observe. What do you SEE? This is about experiencing. Intellectualizing will not open up doors that, using your words, "keep you stuck under the illusion." Really look, Charlie.
There is not much fear on the surface at the moment, so there is not much to look at, but i had a look and this is what I wrote down:

Fear is telling me I can't let go. It wants me to take control of the world and set up some kind of security for me. It doesn’t like to lose control. When fear gets bad, it is the fear of fear itself that is bad. Fear aggressively fixes ‘me’ in place.

Fear is not satisfied unless it knows I’m safe and secure. It is like a guard dog that rises with pointed ears and canines showing at the slightest sniff of a threat to my well-being, reputation, security and so on.

Fear uses the mind to make logical sense of everything, in fact it demands that everything be very logical. It uses a logical formula to calculate, and try to bring about, a safe and secure future. A fearful mind is always trying to make logical sense of everything in order to know that I am safe and secure.

Fear makes thoughts much stronger, and more intimidating, more frequent too, and much more believable and harder to disidentify with. When fear arises, the stream of thoughts becomes a flood and washes away my awareness, and I get submerged into chaos over which I have little control, even though I am trying desperately to control it.

Fear wants to make sure everyone is friendly towards me and that they like me. It does so by making me put on a personality role, in which I act very safely, and I don’t take any risks, maybe I don’t dare to show the real me. Fear paints my face with a smile and I become deeply concerned should my reputation be at threat.

Fear likes to know where I am going, what path I am walking in life, even though I cannot know. It likes me to assume and fantasize about a happy and secure future.

ULTIMITELY, FEAR IS TELLING ME THAT THERE IS A ‘ME’ TO PROTECT.

It feels like fear is the result of what is being thought. It is personal, it is protecting me. Perhaps it doesn't wish to discover there is no 'me'

What comes up for you when i state, "There is no self at all in reality. No you that lives your life."
I can accept it logically, but I can’t see it. How can I experience the world if there is no me to experience it? It feels very much like there is a ‘me’ and a world outside of me. Today I got the tiniest glimpse that all life, even a blade of grass, is intelligent, i.e it is conscious, but it still felt like there was me and it, perhaps that it was conscious of me.
I have had moments in the past when I feel that all of life is dancing for me. It feels like I’m never alone and that it is all for me. It is a wonderfully connected feeling, but there is still a ‘me’ to experience it. i.e. there is me, and the world outside of me.

Hope this answers things ok
Peace and love, :)
Benny

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:52 pm

P.s. Benny is my real name, I didn't know much about this site when I signed up so I used a pseudonym. Call me either, but if Charlie makes you chuckle then use that :)

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Gomi » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:17 pm

Chuckling at appearances. One minute it's Charlie and the next it is Benny. Benny it is! i too used a different name initially. What characters in the game of life we appear to be! Ironically, there will be looking at whether or not either name can stand the test of Reality. :-)

Thanks you for the descriptions of fear. What was correctly picked up upon is that the descriptions are based upon logical, mental thinking. Good observing! Today, let's 'look' at thoughts. Intellectually the knowing appears to be in place. Now just open to what is really happening in the here and now of experiencing. Nothing needs to be done other than watch with curiosity. What is SEEn? Experienced?
Fear wants to make sure everyone is friendly towards me and that they like me. It does so by making me put on a personality role, in which I act very safely, and I don’t take any risks, maybe I don’t dare to show the real me. Fear paints my face with a smile and I become deeply concerned should my reputation be at threat.
The agreement you committed to is 100% honesty.The above thoughts are just old conditioning being played out. It is natural that it arises. Nothing needs to be done with them. Everything is part of life-ing. It's just there for the moment..until it's not. Who is the doer anyway? Things should loosen up as time goes on. Embrace it. Watch it. Observe what is thinking those thoughts? Watch as the appearance of friendliness is coming and going. Use the noticing of wanting to be liked as a pointer. Addictive thought patterns lead directly into suffering. Isn't that your experience? Reality is much kinder and less draining than needing to role play. This will be naturally looked at as the process of SEEing through the illusion unfolds. Again, keep in mind, conditioning doesn't always disappear after seeing through illusion. The strength of its power will probably loosen up, however.
How can I experience the world if there is no me to experience it? It feels very much like there is a ‘me’ and a world outside of me.
We will begin the process with pointers today.

For the moment, fearful thoughts will be put on the side. Going into inquiry just about thoughts, might make things easier to begin the shift. After investigating with some pointers, coming back to fearful thoughts might be seen from possibly a different perspective.

There is a wonderful method LU uses to investigate thoughts. It is called Direct Experience. (DE). This method of inquiry simply has one directly embracing the world using the five senses: seeing, touching, tasting, smelling. Thoughts arise. What is thinking these thoughts? What is experiencing the sensations? Thoughts superimpose concepts on top of these experiences. It's not like thoughts aren't real. Thoughts are real. However, obviously, they come and go. See if any of the experiences actually belong to you. Is an aliveness present? Stay in the body. Breathe. Relax. No pressure. Just watch the show. If experiencing has the spark of aliveness within it, is it there when thinking occurs or when thinking stops thinking and just experience is being presenced? What arises? No mental, correct answers here. Just look and experience. Describe it. What is the difference when experience just occurs and when a 'me, mine' are attached to it.. ie my hand did this, my eyes saw that.

Try these exercises, check it out. What is real in directly experiencing?

1.Close your eyes and imagine you are holding a watermelon in your hands. Imagine it so vividly that you can feel its weight, the shape and texture of the skin. Hold it there, sensing it, and open your eyes. What happened to a melon? How about the sensation that was so believable? That which is real can be sensed in one or more ways. That which is imagined exists only in the mind.

2.What is happening in this moment? With your five senses, what do you experience? Sights, sounds, tastes, smells, tactile sensations, even thoughts. Just list up what there is, don’t draw conclusions.

3.When smelling an object, what is real about the sense of smell? When does it start, and when does it end? What causes the experience?

4. When you observe a flower, is there any separation between you and the flower? How about with smelling experience? Try this with the music. Listen to the music not with your ears but with all your being. You will discover that you can’t truly listen and think at the same time. The slightest thought stops the natural flowing of the music.

Was there any 'me' in control doing the DE exercises or did they just arise? If there is a me controlling it, look closely. Describe it.

Let me know how the pace of this is going. Is it too slow? Just right? Too fast. i don't know your time constraints.
If there is anything you don't understand, don't be polite. Clarity is important.

With love,
Gomi
"Is it not possible that all of this happens without an "I"?...
Keep LOOKING into Direct Experience and SEE how things unfold."
Liberation Unleashed

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:34 am

Thank you Gomi :) The pace is just fine at the moment. In fact it's a very exciting process. I'll have a look at the exercises today and reply this evening.

Benny

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Gomi » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:31 am

Yes. Opening to 'what is' is filled with wonder. All emotions are included. Everything is fresh. One moment excitement arises, the next moment sadness, the next stillness, the next restlessness, the next frustration or anger. All arises and disappears. There is something that contains all of that. Something that remains ever present...like the often used analogy of the sun always shining as the clouds come and go. One moment it SEEMS like there is clarity, the next moment conditioning arises and clarity SEEMS like a thing of the past. There is something that can NEVER leave. That is the awareness of what is here and now! Not attached to feeling or thought fluctuations, yet feelings and thoughts are included within that. It is life itself!
Let's see what appears from the experiencing the exercises.
Love,
Gomi
"Is it not possible that all of this happens without an "I"?...
Keep LOOKING into Direct Experience and SEE how things unfold."
Liberation Unleashed

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:17 pm

Hi Gomi, here goes.
Addictive thought patterns lead directly into suffering. Isn't that your experience?


Yes this is totally my experience.
Reality is much kinder and less draining than needing to role play.
At times I can clearly see the role I am playing and how painfully draining it really is.
Try these exercises, check it out. What is real in directly experiencing?

1.Close your eyes and imagine you are holding a watermelon in your hands. Imagine it so vividly that you can feel its weight, the shape and texture of the skin. Hold it there, sensing it, and open your eyes. What happened to a melon? How about the sensation that was so believable? That which is real can be sensed in one or more ways. That which is imagined exists only in the mind.
I was able to imagine the watermelon. I could imagine experiencing its weight, but I was not experiencing its weight. I could imagine experiencing its skin texture on my hands, but I was not experiencing its skin texture on my hands. I couldn’t remember what a watermelon exactly looked like, so the image changed colour and size in my mind a couple of times.

When I opened my eyes, I saw no watermelon and the imagined experiences left. I didn’t believe the imagined sensations, so I knew there was no watermelon there.
2.What is happening in this moment? With your five senses, what do you experience? Sights, sounds, tastes, smells, tactile sensations, even thoughts. Just list up what there is, don’t draw conclusions.
There are experiences of what I perceive to be the outside world, light, colour, movement, sounds, smells, wind upon my skin, and there are thoughts about these experiences, that puts them in place, fits them into the story of my life. There is a felt aliveness in the body. There is awareness of all these things and there is awareness that there is awareness.
3.When smelling an object, what is real about the sense of smell? When does it start, and when does it end? What causes the experience?
When I want to smell a flower, I know that by putting my nose against it and breathing in I will experience its fragrance. The experience stops when I run out of in-breath. The cause of the experience is the deciding to have the experience in that case. The deciding to have the experience is a thought that arises, that logically decides it is the right thing to do in this moment. If a smell comes that I had no choice over, thoughts determine where the smell is coming from, and they are not happy until they assume they know.

What seems to be real is the actually bare felt sensation of the smell, not the thoughts before it or after it.
4. When you observe a flower, is there any separation between you and the flower? How about with smelling experience? Try this with the music. Listen to the music not with your ears but with all your being. You will discover that you can’t truly listen and think at the same time. The slightest thought stops the natural flowing of the music.
Thoughts seem to pounce upon every experience. I can’t truly listen, at least not for very long, without thoughts coming in and destroying the ’receptivity’ of that moment. If I am out in nature and I hear a sound, my mind will instantly leap up and try to figure out what the sound belongs to, in order to feel assured of my surroundings. It might be more accurate to say that the mind assumes it knows what/where the sound is coming from.
Was there any 'me' in control doing the DE exercises or did they just arise? If there is a me controlling it, look closely. Describe it.
Thoughts seem to arise automatically, so if the thought arises to smell a flower, is there a me that chooses the experience, or is it just happening?

It still feels like there is a ‘me’ choosing to smell the flower, but when I look, it appears that I have no control over thoughts, that they just arise and that my awareness gets hypnotically drawn into thoughts, and carried down stream with them.If I choose to think a specific thought, it is another thought that is choosing to think this thought.

When I look at it logically, it appears that everything including thoughts, volitions, actions, sense perceptions and what comes in to my world, is all just happening. There is nothing choosing them to come into existence.

However, it doesn't feel that it is all just happening. It feels like there is a chooser there somewhere, and that the chooser is me. But I cant find the chooser.

I don't know where thoughts and choices come from. In that sense I feel kinda confused about the whole thing.

It feels like thoughts are who I am, but there seems to be no ‘me’ making them arise, they seem to appear out of nowhere. There IS a ‘me’ who can be aware of them arising. How can thoughts be who I am if they are happening automatically? It is hard to be aware of thoughts, most of the time I fall unconsciously into them. Why do I have such an impulse to get lost in thought?

It seems like thoughts are determined to impose a story upon my felt experience of the world. Why can’t I experience an experience without thoughts leaping upon the experience? I can’t take my awareness to my hands without an image springing to mind of my hands, it’s like it has to know they are there. Who makes the decision to try to be aware of thinking? Who makes the decision to cultivate awareness, is it not just another thought? There is no ‘me’ that seems to have a choice about these thoughts.

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Gomi » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:22 am

Beloved Benny,

SEEing is occurring! However, by your own reporting, mind then tries to figure out the SEEing logically.Today, we will take this into further inquiry.

Questions arose. Where did these questions come from? Asking for an external source to give you answers feeds the logical mind. This is not a university. Seeing through the veil of illusion is experientially known directly. There are no teachers to give you answers. What can be answered if there is Direct Experience anyway? What more is needed?

The pointers are given to focus attention on what is being experienced in the moment.
Guess what? The direct experiences arising from yesterday's exercises are what will be expanded upon in today's LOOKing. Wonderful! Nice going!!!
What seems to be real is the actually bare felt sensation of the smell, not the thoughts before it or after it.
...when I look, it appears that I have no control over thoughts, that they just arise
it appears that everything including thoughts, volitions, actions, sense perceptions and what comes in to my world, is all just happening. There is nothing choosing them to come into existence.
I don't know where thoughts and choices come from.
there seems to be no ‘me’ making them arise, they seem to appear out of nowhere. There IS a ‘me’ who can be aware of them arising.
Let's repeat yesterday's questions 2-4. If you are referencing the past, these exercises may appear boring. See it through the fresh eyes of the moment. Many times in life things can be repetitive. This is great practice for remaining present. It also will give you a fresh look at the questions that came out of experiencing it the first time.

Afterwards, see what arises regarding the questions that arose yesterday. What is SEEn now?...Just a reminder. Mind never gives fresh answers...Direct Experiences does...
1. I can’t truly listen, at least not for very long, without thoughts coming in and destroying the ’receptivity’ of that moment. Is that true? Use direct experience, not the logical mind.
2. The mind assumes it knows what/where the sound is coming from.From direct experience, what is the mind? LOOK!
3.Thoughts seem to arise automatically, so if the thought arises to smell a flower, is there a me that chooses the experience, or is it just happening? What does LOOKING open up for you?
4.It still feels like there is a ‘me’ choosing to smell the flower, but when I look, it appears that I have no control over thoughts, that they just arise and that my awareness. ...And why isn't direct experience trusted? :-)
5. If I choose to think a specific thought, it is another thought that is choosing to think this thought. Again, what is a thought? Listen to your DE in doing the above exercises. Can thoughts be chosen or do they just arise. Answer then put a full stop to it. Experience what arises without the logical mind!!! You experienced that nothing chooses them to come into existence UNTIL the mind took over. What is it like to add the full stop? haha
6. You feel kinda confused about the whole thing. Of course you would be confused! The mind tries to overrule the DE! Watch it now. See if you could observe when this happens. What is it like when you just observe the mind without giving it authority?
7.Why do I have such an impulse to get lost in thought? What doors does DE open to you regarding this?
8.Who makes the decision to try to be aware of thinking? Who makes the decision to cultivate awareness, is it not just another thought? There is no ‘me’ that seems to have a choice about these thoughts. Again, the question was answered through DE...in the very next sentence ;-)
All the questions have the answers inherent within. Nice going Sherlock Holmes! Keep LOOKing!

Much love,
Gomi
"Is it not possible that all of this happens without an "I"?...
Keep LOOKING into Direct Experience and SEE how things unfold."
Liberation Unleashed

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:42 pm

Hi Gomi, I saw more things whilst trying the exercises:
Listen to the music not with your ears but with all your being. You will discover that you can’t truly listen and think at the same time. The slightest thought stops the natural flowing of the music.
Yes this is true. It’s like when thinking occurs, the music goes to the background.
However, by your own reporting, mind then tries to figure out the SEEing logically.
Yes this seems to happen impulsively.
2. The mind assumes it knows what/where the sound is coming from.From direct experience, what is the mind? LOOK!
I see the mind, made up of images, sounds, feelings, volitions, perceptions. These are all sensed in some way. Imagined. It’s like consciousness is pulling them together into some kind of order to make up thoughts. Thoughts come in the form of memories, fantasies, logical formulas, figuring things out, bringing words, images, sounds, feelings all together in some kind of order to create a story.

The story is being created all the time. The mind is a creator. The mind is a story teller, and a mathematician. It always wants to tell a story or work out a formula. The mind wants to create.

The mind is enjoying creating the story so much it doesn’t want it to end. Death would mean the end of the story. The story is avoiding death. Like murder in the dark, the mind is avoiding death because it would mean game over.
4.It still feels like there is a ‘me’ choosing to smell the flower, but when I look, it appears that I have no control over thoughts, that they just arise and that my awareness. ...And why isn't direct experience trusted? :-)
I had a glimpse whilst looking at direct experience, it was like a glimpse of total surrender, total liberation. My body walks itself, without my having to control, like I could sit back and enjoy the ride. A complete letting go of control, letting the body live itself, letting the mind think itself.

When I looked at light, colour, movement coming in through my eyes, I wondered about the bare sensations, seeing is kinda felt within, I guess the same with sound, it is experienced, felt, just as thoughts are experienced or felt.

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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Gomi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:01 am

Hi there!
I had a glimpse whilst looking at direct experience, it was like a glimpse of total surrender, total liberation. My body walks itself, without my having to control, like I could sit back and enjoy the ride. A complete letting go of control, letting the body live itself, letting the mind think itself.
Yes!!! Direct Experience happening!!! What happened with DE? ...Sitting back, enjoying!!!
Sweet!

Compare this with:
The mind is enjoying creating the story so much it doesn’t want it to end. Death would mean the end of the story. The story is avoiding death. Like murder in the dark, the mind is avoiding death because it would mean game over.
In this, what are are you protecting? Clinging to? The mind? Is this really enjoyment? What about in the first quote? Wasn't the mind still busy chattering on? Thoughts come and go but again, what controls the mind?! Please look and answer this. Is there a controller? Is a story real? Or...were thoughts occurring on it's own as the mind did it's thing without a you? This is a very important distinction. What feels true as DE is occurring? Notice, watch!!! If you can not control the mind, the thought that you can loosens and naturally drops away on its own.With this, there is the richness of experiencing the present moment . Check it out. See if this is what is experienced. Don't believe anything. Just open to DE. What is happening? Seeing, tasting, hearing, etc. Thoughts and feelings watched but not identified with. Can you find this true as DE is presenced? Listen, observe, keep this inquiry alive through out the day. Keep looking. Really let the response come from what appears here and now...not from the mind but from DE.

What does it mean the mind is avoiding death because the game would be over.Is this fear? Fear is a thought with an emotional overlay. Are thoughts personal?! They arise, they don't stop. But does this make it real. Can experience be happening but to no one? It just is. LOOK and respond.

Could it be that 'you' seem to exist because the thought 'I" appears. Then you believe it? Can the illusion be that there is a personal you? Really LOOK into this. Can you find a 'you"? Can it be that there is no you at all-nothing and no one behind the experience, but always only the experience? Can it be that awareness is simply arising because the conditions are in place for awareness to arise? Please share your experience in detail.

Try this exercise:
Sit comfortably and pick an object to look at. Now look at it and watch how the mind introduces labels, each of which bring preferences and indeed the beginning of a whole thought train (story). Allow this to mostly run it's
course. Before it actually ends, the mind will introduce boredom as a way of terminating it before it looses 'control', The moment it slows down, it will try to shift perspective. Notice that there is seeing BEFORE the mind labeling overlay happens. At this point the mind may start thrashing around like something that was in death throes you were talking about. If it does, then just mentally reassure it that everything is ok and it should sit in the naughty corner for a while. Now SEEing the object with mind stuff a vague, indistinct background hum, the characteristics of the object merge into the Process of SEEing. SEEing is happening. Ask yourself where that SEEing is taking place. Ask yourself is there a SEE-er? Is there a SEEn, Is there separation? (If there is, then ask where does one stop and the other start?), or is there just SEEing. No subject or object, just SEEing.

Love,
Gomi
"Is it not possible that all of this happens without an "I"?...
Keep LOOKING into Direct Experience and SEE how things unfold."
Liberation Unleashed

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Tao
Posts: 280
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Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:03 pm

Hi Gomi, I must say I had a much more challenging day with this. I found myself a bit bewildered.
In this, what are are you protecting? Clinging to? The mind? Is this really enjoyment? What about in the first quote? Wasn't the mind still busy chattering on? Thoughts come and go but again, what controls the mind?! Please look and answer this. Is there a controller? Is a story real? Or...were thoughts occurring on it's own as the mind did it's thing without a you? This is a very important distinction. What feels true as DE is occurring? Notice, watch!!! If you can not control the mind, the thought that you can loosens and naturally drops away on its own.With this, there is the richness of experiencing the present moment . Check it out. See if this is what is experienced. Don't believe anything. Just open to DE. What is happening? Seeing, tasting, hearing, etc. Thoughts and feelings watched but not identified with. Can you find this true as DE is presenced? Listen, observe, keep this inquiry alive through out the day. Keep looking. Really let the response come from what appears here and now...not from the mind but from DE.
This proved to be a bit of a rabbit hole, and totally bewildering. Hmm, where do I begin? I couldn’t see that there was any control over thoughts whatsoever, but it did appear that thoughts had control over other thoughts. In this sense, thinking can direct the mind to further thinking, or to think a specific way as to conceptualize. I guess one could say, even the initial thought, to think a certain way, arose by itself.
So what is it that is encouraging me to LOOK at my experience? Surely that’s just another thought? A thought tells me to look. In this way, it seems the mind is tricking itself. Could the mind be luring itself into it’s own death? Or is that just another mind concept? I don’t understand how to look, or what part of me is looking, it’s rather confusing. My mind keeps trying to figure out how to have a direct experience, but that’s just another thought. The more I try to look with direct experience, the harder the mind tries to figure out how. The mind is trying to have direct experience, that’s the baffling bit.

What does it mean the mind is avoiding death because the game would be over.Is this fear? Fear is a thought with an emotional overlay. Are thoughts personal?! They arise, they don't stop. But does this make it real. Can experience be happening but to no one? It just is. LOOK and respond.
I saw it that the mind is like a cheeky child not wanting to get caught, not wanting the story to get seen for what it is, a story. It appears that mind uses fear, fear is the mind’s magic power, for luring you back into its hypnotic spell, to get you lost believing in the story again. Fear pulls me back into the story, like there actually is something to worry about.
Could it be that 'you' seem to exist because the thought 'I" appears. Then you believe it? Can the illusion be that there is a personal you? Really LOOK into this. Can you find a 'you"? Can it be that there is no you at all-nothing and no one behind the experience, but always only the experience? Can it be that awareness is simply arising because the conditions are in place for awareness to arise?
I certainly see that thoughts that create the ‘I’ are appearing all of the time. It’s what seems to keep ‘me’ here in the world. I can’t find a ‘me’ but I also can’t figure out how to really LOOK. What do I do with the mind, constantly trying to figure it all out? It is the mind trying to LOOK, but how else could it be? Is awareness arising because thoughts are telling me to look? What are the conditions for awareness to arise?
Try this exercise:
Sit comfortably and pick an object to look at. Now look at it and watch how the mind introduces labels, each of which bring preferences and indeed the beginning of a whole thought train (story). Allow this to mostly run it's
course. Before it actually ends, the mind will introduce boredom as a way of terminating it before it looses 'control', The moment it slows down, it will try to shift perspective. Notice that there is seeing BEFORE the mind labeling overlay happens. At this point the mind may start thrashing around like something that was in death throes you were talking about. If it does, then just mentally reassure it that everything is ok and it should sit in the naughty corner for a while. Now SEEing the object with mind stuff a vague, indistinct background hum, the characteristics of the object merge into the Process of SEEing. SEEing is happening. Ask yourself where that SEEing is taking place. Ask yourself is there a SEE-er? Is there a SEEn, Is there separation? (If there is, then ask where does one stop and the other start?), or is there just SEEing. No subject or object, just SEEing.
I really like this exercise. I can see the mind thrashing around, and it brings up all kinds to try to get me away from the experience. I need to do this exercise again tomorrow as I need to dedicate more time to it, perhaps I need more time looking at this. I’ll reply to this exercise again tomorrow.

This really feels like an awesome process. Thank you so much for your ongoing guidance!
Benny

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Tao
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 9:19 pm

Re: Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

Postby Tao » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:08 pm

p.s. The thought arises to look directly at experience, but it is the thought that blocks direct experience. But to look at direct experience there has to be the thought to do so.


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