Why wait longer?

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
hannamaria
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Why wait longer?

Postby hannamaria » Mon May 27, 2013 8:37 pm

Why wait longer? I don’t want to be a seeker. I want to know the truth and live for real. I am not too spiritually inexperienced, inexperienced in general, eager, distracted, unengaged, afraid, young, cause there is no I that can be anything right?! So why wait for a better time to truly see that?

I’m looking for guidance before I get entangled in all these practices and paths that has become known to me recently. Not that I’m not grateful for my experiences so far that has lead me to this site for instance. But I’m terrified of getting trapped in searching for something all my life when I know that this terrified I and the I knowing something, isn't real...aaa I am confused...

I’m half-way through your book and I already feel something’s going on and I’d love to get guidance. I recently met dzogchen-teacher Jackson Peterson who directed me to this site and he recommended me to talk to Ilona or Elena if that’s possible? I’m afraid to get hung up on who’s guiding me for ”this to work” cause I truly feel this to be my best shot at putting an end to my misconception of there being an ”I”.

I’m sorry if this is a very unorganized request, but I am just hoping to get guidance as I said and I thank you for your time and patience so far!

Sincerely
Hanna

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Tue May 28, 2013 5:42 pm

Hello Hannah,

Thanks for your initial post,
I’m looking for guidance before I get entangled in all these practices and paths that has become known to me recently. Not that I’m not grateful for my experiences so far that has lead me to this site for instance. But I’m terrified of getting trapped in searching for something all my life when I know that this terrified I and the I knowing something, isn't real...aaa I am confused...
Well, that's fine. This site is not about teaching you anything or any system of belief or practises.
It is simply this,
getting you to LOOK,
within,
to see your own truth.

If you are up for it then I'm happy to be your guide.
I'll ask questions and you answer honestly from direct, present moment experience.
It helps if you post at least once a day to maintain momentum.
Please relax any expectations you may have for a particular outcome, and relax any beliefs or philosophies. From time to time revisit this aspect of relaxing as you get more engaged in this process.
Approach this inquiry with an open heart. And hold it, as it were, with an open hand.
You do not need any particular guide for this to work, that's because this is not about a transfer of knowledge.

Please confirm that you have read our intro and disclaimer at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/ and the files at the top of the "Guiding Area". If you agree to all that then please answer the following,

What are your expectations for this?
how will it change you and how will things be different? Really look and answer as fully as possible.

What time zone are you in, and may I ask your age? I'm Ray, in Southern England.

As well as being a serious inquiry this should also be fun, exciting and interesting.

Looking forward to working with you,

Ray

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Tue May 28, 2013 5:43 pm

Oops, i should have written Hanna, not Hannah :)

User avatar
hannamaria
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby hannamaria » Tue May 28, 2013 9:44 pm

Hi Ray!

I’m very grateful that you want to help, I hope you’ll bare with me!

I expect to overcome this expecting I and live life with a greater understanding of it’s actual nature. But this one wanting to understand isn’t real so that’s what I…it’s getting hard using that term, which I guess is positive and there’s that analysing, expecting I again!

It has recently become evident that I’ve wanted to find a truth that would help me refine my personality/identity into this pure, true, loving, humble existence without an ego just pooring out (and in!) love and feeling fantastic all the time. I don’t know where I stand with that desire but I’m mentioning it…what I do know though is that I’m not afraid of loosing anything or becoming something else cause leaving it at this, with this strong sense unlike any other, that I don’t know half as much as I’ve thought but that knowing is just round the corner, is what I fear the most. But I don’t fear, I’m excited and trusting!

I didn’t want to write too much but things get clear and muddy as I’m writing and I find it quite interesting to follow…sorry for that. There is a strong expecting one typing now yes, but she’s observed and what I hope will change is that even if that expecting I still goes on chatting in my head, a clear distinction between the sense of being and the thinking/thoughts that constructs this person or ”I” can be seen.

I’m 25 years old and live in Sweden so I guess it’s plus 1 hour maybe?

Thank you!

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Tue May 28, 2013 10:47 pm

Thanks for your reply Hanna.

As you said in your earlier post "I" is a misconception. It is only the idea of an I as the controller, the doer at the centre of experience that is seen through. The words "I, you, me" are still useful for communication.

Please try to let go of your expectations. Any expectation of how it will be will get in the way of seeing. It may, or may not live up to those expectations!
with this strong sense unlike any other, that I don’t know half as much as I’ve thought but that knowing is just round the corner,
Not knowing is a great starting point for this simple seeing! I also feel that what you are looking for is just round the corner.

Is English the best language for you? We also have guides who speak Danish and German if that would be better for you.

You mention some fear. Lets look at that first. Fear is actually helpful in this, it works perfectly to protect you. Where there is fear the illusion is thin. Invite that fear to come close, welcome it like a friend, sit and have a cup of coffee with it, and ask it what it is protecting. Look directly at that.
Write back with what you find.

Kindest regards,
Ray

User avatar
hannamaria
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby hannamaria » Tue May 28, 2013 11:37 pm

Oh that was a quick answer, thank you!

English is fine since I don’t speak German and Danish isn’t as close to Swedish as one might think.

I’ll have to come back to you tomorrow on the fear but I can tell you that by just starting to list fears the feeling of fear arise and seem to tighten the ”I” in some way. It leaves me feeling like the ”I” is getting desperate making me feel bad for pursuing this, still the fear and strong ”I”-identity is here but also some laughing at the entire thing…but I need to take a closer look.
Good night and thanks again!

User avatar
hannamaria
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby hannamaria » Wed May 29, 2013 11:42 am

It’s seems that the fears all come from the fear of being revealed. I guess that’s resonable since the fear is so centered round the ”I” and this ”I” is a scam. I really want to drop these fears now and get on with life since they only seem to be there to prevent me from letting go of something that doesn’t exist.

But why would I do that to myself, why would I imagine there to be someone directing everything with fear as an engine, if that does not benefit me? Cause it benefits the existence of this false ”me”?

Actually I’m afraid of fear itself and I want to just accept it. But this is all a play to keep me refining the one wanting to accept fear and being superchill right? I feel like a went backwards with these last two sentences. So I just leave it here. Am I rushing this?

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Wed May 29, 2013 12:54 pm

why would I imagine there to be someone directing everything with fear as an engine, if that does not benefit me? Cause it benefits the existence of this false ”me”?
That's a great question. We all got ourselves tied in knots on that one eh! Is it that we have a lot of investment in the idea of self and that we identify with that?

You're doing well so far. No need to rush. Simply maintain focus.
It’s seems that the fears all come from the fear of being revealed. I guess that’s resonable since the fear is so centered round the ”I” and this ”I” is a scam. I really want to drop these fears now and get on with life since they only seem to be there to prevent me from letting go of something that doesn’t exist.
YES! You have got it intellectually. You say "it seems" and "I guess". You appreciate that what is being protected is an illusion. Is the fear protecting you from physical harm here? Is there anything real that is being protected?
Do this and gently maintain focus...Take a look at the fear again using the method I mentioned before. Look behind the fear at what it is protecting, and look behind that. Is there anything real there. Really LOOK and write what you see. Is the fearfull feelings reduced?

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Wed May 29, 2013 3:40 pm

Hi Hanna,

So to the next question.

Right here, right now, as you sit there in front of that computer screen, take a look. What does the word "I" refer to?
Where is it located, can you point to it? Does "I" have a shape, a size, any other physical characteristics that you can describe?


Take it easy,
Ray

User avatar
hannamaria
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby hannamaria » Wed May 29, 2013 7:20 pm

I don’t know what it refers to or where it’s located no.

I'm puzzled now by some questions:
How could I ever come to this realization if it’s that I don’t exist that’s gonna be revealed? There has to just be that the belief drops off right? And there lies the knowing that has been there all along.

But I am still here. Puzzled.

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Thu May 30, 2013 12:21 pm

Hi Hanna,
I'm puzzled now by some questions:
How could I ever come to this realization if it’s that I don’t exist that’s gonna be revealed? There has to just be that the belief drops off right? And there lies the knowing that has been there all along.
Yes, how could it be any other way. As you can see language can confuse things here.

Look back at your past, that is the story of you. Is there attachment to that story that seems to define who or what you are in the present?
Look to the future, your expectations, hopes, wishes, plans and desires. Does that describe you in the present?
Quietly bring attention to this moment, to the flow of thoughts now, to the input of your senses before that sensory input gets labelled, and to that feeling of life here in the body. Is there an I, a self anywhere in that? If not what is there?

Take a look at this short video by Elena, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_aVqdJw ... e=youtu.be

Back to your statement. How can you not come to this realization? Can you see "I" anywhere. LOOK!!!
Is the belief anything other than attachment to a thought, an idea of a self. Is there anything to be revealed that was not always known?

Ray

User avatar
hannamaria
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby hannamaria » Thu May 30, 2013 6:36 pm

Hi Ray,

I do end up in a nothing that makes all thoughts seem like just thoughts but the ”I” is so quick to come and claim the space to be its'. It identifies with thoughts like ”Look this is you, not the thoughts you just had they’re just thoughts!”.

It seems though that there have been moments of no-thinking since we started which have slipped the mind’s eye so to speak. Like time has gone by without notice…

As soon as I start trying to understand things, taking on your responses like intellectual riddles it seems like my mind puts me in a distracting confusion and stress over ”not getting it”. There’s also a hope that things will just solve themselves in some magical unconscious way. That the ”I” will automatically get overpowered by it’s own reaction to your questions.

Oh, I need to go for a walk! Thanks again for your time and effort Ray!

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Thu May 30, 2013 8:16 pm

Hi Hanna,

A note aside from the guiding. I've been chatting on-line with Peter Signall, I understand you met him recently.
He's available if any input is needed in Swedish. Your English is great though.
:)
Ray

User avatar
ray
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby ray » Thu May 30, 2013 8:53 pm

Hi Hanna,
I do end up in a nothing that makes all thoughts seem like just thoughts but the ”I” is so quick to come and claim the space to be its'. It identifies with thoughts like ”Look this is you, not the thoughts you just had they’re just thoughts!”.
Is "I" the thinker of thoughts. Try this, choose something to think of. What gets chosen. Did you actually choose it or did it just pop up? Describe what you find.
It seems though that there have been moments of no-thinking since we started which have slipped the mind’s eye so to speak. Like time has gone by without notice…
it's not necessary to stop thought to see. Can you stop thought? Try it, what happens?
Gaps in thought are interesting though.
As soon as I start trying to understand things, taking on your responses like intellectual riddles it seems like my mind puts me in a distracting confusion and stress over ”not getting it”. There’s also a hope that things will just solve themselves in some magical unconscious way. That the ”I” will automatically get overpowered by it’s own reaction to your questions.

Oh, I need to go for a walk! Thanks again for your time and effort Ray!
Going for a walk is a good way to let things settle. And a good opportunity to notice if there is someone doing the walking or if it just happens automatically.
Don't stress and get overloaded with thought. Determination to see is a help. Tomorrow I'll get you to try a simple exercise about "choosing" that does not involve thinking. I hope you'll enjoy it.

Warmly,
Ray

User avatar
hannamaria
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Re: Why wait longer?

Postby hannamaria » Thu May 30, 2013 8:53 pm

OK that's great to know! Do you recommend me to do that? Since I usually think in Swedish, is there a risk of missing something by doing this in another language?


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests