Asking for guidance

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Katherine
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Asking for guidance

Postby Katherine » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:35 pm

I feel like I have no choice. I have to do something and I don't know what. I just want it to end. The lies and suffering of the illusion.

It's like I've stepped far enough back to see it's all illusion but I can't completely detach. In some ways I think I am scared I could end up satisfied with this shitty illusion the way it has become.

Everything in the illusory life has changed. The woman I used to be, I really liked her. I miss her. Sometimes I just want her back. Surprisingly not as often as one might expect, but it still comes up once in a while. She had so much faith in everything and confidence in herself. She thought the universe had her best interest at heart, and guardian angels guided her on their wings. She was resilient and comfortable in her own skin. Not to mention attractive, and generally successful at almost anything she tried. She's dead and gone. I know she can never come back whether I want her to or not. In her place is this scared, confused, directionless pile of muck.

Some baggage has fallen along the way. Some seems to disappear on its own like a thief in the night has come and taken it. Some has been like sawing my own hand off because it felt like I was handcuffed to it. I've seen magical things along the way. Downright miracles even. I saw the earthquake in Haiti one week before it happened, and told people about it at a dinner the night before. That was a bit like a bonus from the universe. Feeling a little less crazy because I had told people the night before, and the vindications of their shocked phone calls afterwards. I've had experiences that I've longed to get back to with no way to get there. It's almost like being taunted. Tortured even.

At least some of this was a 'conscious' choice, though. 3 years this month. I made the choice to walk away from the sustenance work. I had come to hate it, and I hated the fake characters involved in it. I made the choice to entrust everything survival to my spouse so I could try to figure out what this spiritual stuff was I was being drawn towards. A few ridiculously false teachers and one guru later, here I sit.

I feel like somehow I'm supposed to be able to look back on it all and say it was worth it, but right now it doesn't feel like I am anywhere near it.

I can't always remember things for any length of time. Seemingly genuine insights seem to happen, have their impact and dissipate. Other information is just randomly discarded.

I hate this life. I hate everything about it. I long for death and I am such a failure I can't even get myself there. And I've thought about it a lot. Especially about two years ago when the depth of the illusion and the feelings of the pointlessness of it all really hit hard, but really off and on ever since then. I really think if I were actually going to do it, I would've done it by now, and not be sitting here talking about it. And as soon as it all comes out, it's already not true. There are still joys in life. My beautiful little girl comes in with a grin and a giggle and stares deep into my eyes and tells me not to worry and gives me a kiss. She's making up songs these days and I could listen to her sing for hours... Or at least until some thought comes at me like a bull in a china shop.

I dream about it. This body dying. In the dreams where it's actually been able to die, I have woken up feeling so relieved. The latest dream wasn't so good, though. Being dowsed in gasoline and begging for the lighter someone is holding out to me just out of reach. If death is the only sure thing and it's so f'ing inevitable, why can't it just come now?

I don't think I'm actually crazy. I think everything around me is crazy and I can't stop getting sucked into it. I can't sleep anymore. Not for any length of time. Both eyes are completely black under them and inside the bridge of my nose. I did a huge physical detox over the weekend, and laid there wishing I could flush out the self along with the toxins, but knew I wasn't getting out of it that easy.

I don't think there is anything worse than this continuing with one foot in each world, flip flopping back and forth. If none of it's real, why does it matter if everything sucks? One thing I do want to make clear is I don't think this is about a permanently blissed out experience. What a relief it was to have that bubble burst. It never felt right anyhow when I heard the all you have to do is this or that and badda bing badda boom the birds will start singing and never stop. What crap.

No vocabulary seems to work anymore. Every conversation is strange. It's very lonely. I go to a language class once a week, and sit in the group watching the dynamics and feel like I am in a room of people and there is not a single soul there who has a clue. There is nobody I can talk to about any of this. I just had a phone call with someone from a bank that I could see the conversation happening, but it wasn't even like I was having it. I'm not attached anymore to the outcome of the situation with the crooked corporation. The crooked corporation is just there doing what crooked corporations do. If it weren't for the crooked corporations what would all those people do who go to them every day? If I have any feeling about it, it is maybe something along the lines of empathy for the woman who called me who is probably just trying to support her family. She doesn't know, does she.

I think I have a grasp on what is meant by direct experiencing. I've had some interesting direct experiences along the way, but none I would call actually experiencing no-self. I wonder if this is what all of this has been preparing me for. I've disconnected from the few alleged gurus I had checked out. I just need to not play solitaire to numb myself.

I think I am out of excuses. Well, almost. I'm actually waiting for my copy of the book to arrive. But that's no excuse, really. Not if I want to be honest about it. In some ways I wonder if I'm not better off with less preconceived notions about the process. I'm telling you. The universe cuts me to the quick every time. UPS just dropped off the book earlier than the anticipated delivery date. And the dry sense of humour of the universe strikes again. I open it to page 110 where Chandi is saying how difficult it is with kids and other stuff. All right, all right, as thick-headed as I am at times with the confusion, even I can't miss a pointer this big. I'm reading.

Whether it's a slap or a hug, I am asking for it, whatever it is, and I agree to the rules, which I'll refresh on for good measure.

And thank you.

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Yari
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Yari » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:44 pm

I like you Katherine

and I do get what you feel.

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Yari
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Yari » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:42 am

The question is what is it you wanna get, what do you think needs to be changed from the current perspective?

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Katherine
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Katherine » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:46 am

Thank you, Yari.

Around page 41 it happened. I told myself I was open and wasn't attached to how it could happen and blah blah blah bunch of lies. I really expected SOMETHING. I guess based on past magical type experiences, I thought it would be that magical experience, but on steroids. I mean wouldn't it have to take something like that? Something really incredible. Like the clouds part and the sky opens up and all the angels sing "Aaaaaaaaaaaaah!" You know what I'm talking about, right?

It was more like having a feather waved by me that somehow erased some filmy residue. And I just saw. There is no fucking gate. There was a valley girl in my head, and she said "oh my gawd". I was trying to get somewhere. I thought there was some cliff I could arrive at that I would know when I was there, and I would knowingly jump, but it's so ridiculous. There is nobody to jump off the cliff that doesn't exist. There is only emptiness past the gate that isn't there to go through. It is something that really can't be understood. I felt like such an idiot. I felt so dizzy. This was hours ago, and I'm shaking even as I type this. I had heard a comparison in the past of it being like setting down a 20kg backpack after hiking for an entire day, and the lightness you feel when you are not carrying that heavy load anymore and that is exactly how I feel. Except instead of just hiking the entire day I decided to to sprint and completely over-exerted myself. My cheeks hurt and my body feels like I have been hit by a truck, but not in a bad way.

It doesn't even feel awkward to say I or my anymore. I laid around looking at a few concepts and stuff and junk. I started to think about a particular situation and I just asked for an answer. I want it to be clear whether this particular thing should be done tomorrow and the next day. In the illusion. Right after the thought released, the phone rang with the answer.

I actually feel grateful. It was inconceivable just hours ago. I'm not just grateful for the horrible experiences of the last few years. It's like there's no end to the gratefulness. It stretches back to every interconnected interwoven experience that created the stops along the way and this website and the book. It is like it stretches forever.

I could keep looking and babbling, but I am done for tonight. I'm not stopping, though.

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Katherine
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Katherine » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:57 am

We were posting at the same time. :)

That was the exact question, though. I really thought I was going to get something much more than feeling like a retard, and I did in a way. If nothing is something to get.

The emptiness is what I was really searching for it and I found it but it was not what I thought I was searching for but it is exactly what I wanted.

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Yari
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Yari » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:43 pm

the clouds part and the sky opens up and all the angels sing "Aaaaaaaaaaaaah!" You know what I'm talking about, right?
eheh, yeah. I think everyone expects it to be sort of like that, to fit into their idea of "supercosmic revelation from above" :-)
While it is that which has always been true and present, the ordinary, but seen without lens.
I was trying to get somewhere.
While, again, there is nowhere else to go but here. What else is it there to exist, where else would the universe be manifesting in all its glory but right here and now.
There is only emptiness past the gate that isn't there to go through.
Yep. I remember reading about Siddharta's "Middle Way", the path to liberation, refering to the insight into emptiness that transcends opposite statements about existence.
It is something that really can't be understood.
Right, it is beyond mind, beyond concept. It is something emcompassing all in such a scale that Everything is included in it.
The emptiness is what I was really searching for it and I found it but it was not what I thought I was searching for but it is exactly what I wanted.
Nothing, you were looking for nothing and that is why the enquire is stressing and deluding. You are nothing (once the ego has been seen through). What is left? Everything else.


How are you feeling?

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Katherine
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Katherine » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:36 pm

I couldn't go to sleep right away last night. There was a tiny bit of resistance that seemed to start to come up, like wanting to force the sleep. Only minutes before I had felt so exhausted, but the resistance seemed so silly it didn't stick around. I passed out when I quit trying. I actually slept very well last night.

I still feel a bit strange. Sometimes dizzy-ish. Not quite dizzy, but almost? Lighter, for sure.

This looking is really fun because it can be done with anything. I feel thirsty. A bit oddly, super thirsty today. So I look to see where the thirst comes from and there is nothing there. Just expansive emptiness. The thirst doesn't belong to me. I don't have to stress out about why I am thirsty, is something wrong, should I try to figure something out. There's no me to do any of that anyway so I have a drink of water. Big deal. But it tastes really good and feels really good going down. Cool. So what?

There are times a fear could come up. It doesn't really. I can see it almost start but as soon as it does it is silly anyhow. But I want to say something about this fear. It is like there is a fear that this is somehow permanent and is not going to "stick". Even a hint of that starts to arise and I don't feel any of the constriction in my neck or shoulders or things something like a stressful thought would bring.

It seems like a ridiculous notion anyhow, and if it were going to happen I don't see how I could do anything about it anyhow because there is no I to do anything about it. It took me way longer to type all of that than it actually takes when it's happening, though. It's really a split second thing.

I've read just a little bit in the book and when I start to look at what is being recommended for someone to look at everything is so clear and I feel this huge expansion and it feels natural and the feeling of gratitude is huge.

:)

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Yari
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Yari » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:13 pm

Very good, congratulation Katherine. That was easy, wasn't it?
Now please answer these questions for the confirmation process:

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.



3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.



4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it. 



5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?



6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?



7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?



8) Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?



9) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?



10) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening.


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Katherine
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Katherine » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:25 pm

I write and I save the answers because I didn't write in Word document this time and they disappeared ! It's okay. :) It's fun to do the looking so I look again and write again.
That was easy, wasn't it?
The 'gate' part incredibly easy. I did absolutely nothing and very little actually happened, but I will answer this more at #9.

The three years getting to be where I had to be for the last resistance to drop? Not easy. But perfect.

And the questions are easy but not easy to say when you see or sense or feel or experience because anything to describe does not really compare, but it is fun to try.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Nope. Nope. Nope. Look around for any self or separateness and there is only nothing. Emptiness void. Things arise in the void and go back into the void but they are never separate from the void.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
Everything that comes up to try to explain this is so not true. I see completely that nothing is what I thought it was. The teachings say it starts at age 2 and this and that but nothing ever actually starts and nothing ever actually ends and I don't actually know how it works, but I don't need to know. That's it for this question right now.


3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
The words are so weak compared to what it is and the experience. I feel grateful and love and lightness and hugeness and emptiness and tears and happiness and relief. I thought it would be scary but is not. It's more cosy. Like the warmest softest dark blanket. The closest thing I could compare it to (and it is still no comparison) is the first moment my daughter's eyes and my eyes met right after she was born. That moment passed pretty quickly and this does not. I can experience the void for some time and my eyes come into focus and I am still holding the Gateless Gatecrashers book on the same page maybe five or ten minutes later. And I know it is there whether I focus on it or not. Maybe sometime I will see both at the same time, but I don't know. There is just a sense that could happen.


4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
I never thought about this. I never imagined to try to explain to someone who never heard of the illusion. These people are still around? Okay, somewhat seriously... I have them watch the Donald Rumsfeld video on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQuk where he talks about the "known known" the "known unknown" the "unknown unknown". And I tell them there is an unknown unknown. But because I am telling you it becomes an known unknown. But you can never know it, you can only experience it. It might be hardship to get there, but it is worth every second of it.

Now my more serious answer is that I would have to see when I am actually talk to someone what to say. Things are so clear now. But you say what would I say if? I don't really know.


5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
It's not that anything actually pushed me over. I said before like a feather waved over and everything was clear but it could also be describe like a veil lifted. Nothing made me look (which is a bit of a pun you have to have seen it to understand). I don't just mean in the there is no me to look because there isn't, but the looking happened. I couldn't have made it happen or stop it from happening. Things were just so clear and it was like there was some instinct or something in that moment to have this experience of looking back... Not even all the way back. Like looking over your shoulder and there is no gate ! And then you turn around to look and see and it's like an echo of the first but stronger and it really dawns on you there is no fucking gate. There never was there never has been. It was whatever it was the kept you from it. The perspective of the illusory self. The ego protecting itself. All meaningless words to describe it.


6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The "I" is a convenient letter because it is handy to say or type "I" instead of the all encompassing infinite void, which still wouldn't be true.


7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?
No, no, no. Definitely no experiencer unless you want to call the nothing void experiencer instead of "I". There is no experience either because it is just an inadequate word to try to describe the nothing that includes EVERYTHING. For convenience, sure, there is everything only experiencing or happening. But it's not true. Although I notice sometimes the I refers to the body but it doesn't mean that is MY body ask in I own it or am actually attached to it


8) Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?
Neither they are both included in nothing. But if there was a rule and I couldn't pick neither I would say the body belongs to the experience.

I don't know how well the vocabulary stuff is working. For a while it was clear and then sometimes not as clear and then it comes clear again. Right now like cycles. The clarity is always there like in the background, but in and out of focus.


9) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?
At that exact moment absolutely nothing. I think it was the first time in my life I felt nothing, I sensed nothing, I feared nothing. And very immediately then the clarity.


10) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening.
Following awakening, I did a lot of looking and felt dizzy and light and couldn't really focus on reading but just kept going back to the emptiness when looking and really enjoying it. Some of this I posted above about how I slept really well that night and such. This is really the update since then.

It is now about 1400 (2pm here) and I have not slept in about 30 hours. I will probably stay awake for another 4 hours or so until my husband gets home. In these 30 + hours? I laid in bed for 8 of them and never slept. I just looked for this or that, this or that. The body sweated. Headaches in part of the head came and went with nothing more than a mere noticing. The best I can describe it is if someone has ever seen any of the Harry Potter movies. It feels like the inside of the head is the inside of that great staircase area and the staircases are moving in every direction and breaking connections and making new connections. Solutions kept coming up to illusional situations. Things that have been problems for months. Lots of things that might be seen as trivial but these are major hurdles when you are in a big depression existential crisis crazy time. The best way I can find to describe it is that it felt like every cell in my body was vibrating at a super incredible fast speed and like it was going to fly apart and give birth to a star or a black hole. That is just what came up when I looked for a way to describe it and it is as close as I can come.

I never tried any real drugs. I tried marijuana in my 20s but I hated it because I didn't feel in control. (Big surprise.) I have never tried acid or cocaine or meth or crank or crack or heroin or shrooms... I can't think of anymore drugs. I knew people who tried these things but I never did. Especially when the Matrix came out everybody was doing acid and talking about how there was no spoon and I wanted to hit them in the forehead with the spoon. Really, really hard. For some reason I think could be how drugs might feel or maybe it's withdrawal from drugs would feel like, I don't know. I'm not afraid of it. I feel fine. I have worked more than 24 hours straight in a few different environments, and it felt like total hell, and this does not. My neighbour talked to me for an hour and a half this morning about our mutual landlord situation, and when I told her I had to go becauseI hadn't been asleep since yesterday morning she was amazed. She said I look great. The black circles are less around my eyes than they were two days ago.

Really silly fun stuff comes up. I will try to explain this for any reader. First, I have to say, in North America or more specifically, Canada and the US, you can buy frozen turkeys with a red button that pops out of the turkey when it is cooked. So this is the story of the North American enlightened turkey. It doesn't really work in a literal sense because you are both the turkey and the maker of the turkey, but it's still a good story. And for all of my vegetarians, I love you and the turkey is a vegetarian, too. It just eats grains and stuff.

You buy a frozen turkey at the store. (This frozen turkey is like the completely asleep human.) You bring it home and when it gets to maybe 12 hours before you want to start cooking it, you take it out of the freezer and you put it in the sink to start thawing it out. (Maybe the baby steps of waking up? The turkey, I mean asleep human, goes to a new age seminar or something.)

When it is totally thawed, you start preparing it. You pull out the gizzards and extra stuff (I put in the garbage, where beliefs go when you don't need them anymore), and then you stuff its bum with bread crumb stuffing or whatever you like (other beliefs to replace the ones that went in the garbage first). You rub some herbs or seasoning on the outside of it based on how you think the turkey should turn out (meditating, yoga, advaita satsang, whatever, they are part of the path to the gate).

The turkey goes in the HOT ASS oven. You look at the clock and tell yourself I need to get the turkey out in exactly five hours when it will be perfect. And then you get distracted making the dinner rolls and the pumpkin pie, and you look at the clock and say "Oh shit ! I was supposed to get the turkey out an hour ago !" And you open the oven door, and the red button is popped and the turkey is PERFECT.

Now for the after bit... When that boiling turkey comes out of that oven, it has to sit and settle otherwise the meat is all wobbly if you try to cut into it soon. I am having way too much fun cutting wobbly meat right now. There is nothing the "I" that doesn't exist can do to make the body that doesn't exist go into the sweet death of sleep even if "I" wanted to, and I don't. I am enjoying every moment. Sleep will come when it does and it will be another happening / experience and I will savour it like a juicy perfectly cooked turkey, which is what everything (nothing) is anyhow.

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Katherine
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Katherine » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:47 pm

This is just to bump the post. Just checking on confirmation because interested in the aftercare group, although the everything seems to be stabilising a lot better than the first few days.

Also, asked on the Facebook page about the groups.

Thanks !


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