I would like to work with Dreamer

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gracie
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I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby gracie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:33 pm

Hi there,
I have been working on seeing this self for years but specifically now for a few weeks here in the site. It is a much clearer approach.
I had a good introduction.
But I am in a circle at this point
I get it about the no self but I am caught in it as well.
I need some direction can you help?
Gracie

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:13 pm

Hello Gracie

Tell me what you experience.

Warm regards Vivi

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gracie
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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby gracie » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:29 am

Thank you for writing .
I have read your discussions and like them.

What I am experiencing is frustration. Something like I will never get this.
I get it but like gears slipping, it is gone even tho I have experienced the awareness.
I know what it is I can understand how everything , thought ,me included appears in in consciousness. And that I am the consciousness.
Perhaps the experience of awareness is so new for me that I can not believe it.

The "Me" is hanging on for dear life.
I find myself feeling sad about this.

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:54 am

Ok Gracie

This is it.
This is how it is. It can never be other than it is.
This instant it feels like frustration and sadness.
It is OK.
Let it be.

What happens when reading this?

What do you mean by 'the experience of awareness is so new to me'.
How can experiencing awareness be new? Haven't you experienced awareness 1000 times before? Been aware of feelings, the weather, hunger, tiredness, flowers, music etc?

What is there to believe?

The 'ME' is hanging on for dear life...afraid to leave?
I find myself feeling sad about this - what is this 'myself'

warm regards Vivi





The

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gracie
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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby gracie » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:35 am

What happens when reading this..
a relief... of sorts it is never comfortable feeling these things but I can breathe a little more after it has been acknowledged.

Awareness, yes I experience it constantly. the warm , t he cold etc. It comes and goes.
The awareness i experienced was different the other night. A different quality.
Suddenly I was looking out for my eyes not as the personality but as a spirit. It is hard to write of accurately. There was a deep peace, a quietness, love.. It brought tears to my eyes(not sad ones) As I looked around the room I was stunned at the beauty. It was holy.
What was this? Was that the other side of t he illusion? The true self , the awareness?

In the awareness I usually experience it is all about the labeling. I am aware of what is going on and I am aware of this and that and that I am labeling.( some of the time anyway)

The other amazing awareness was only there for a short time that is why I am having a hard time believing it. It was as though I slipped into another dimension.
What was that??

Yes the me having a hard time appears not to want to leave.
Ah yes, myself... it is feeling sad isnt it? Perhaps it is part of not wanting to leave.
It is its MO. a very strong illusion.

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:24 am

Hi Gracie

This is all about seeing through beliefs.
It seems to me that you have a belief saying: 'I' is a very strong belief here, almost impossible to see through.

Now, what are beliefs made of?

When 'I' is a thought, isn't 'myself' a thought too? See, nothing has to leave. It is just about recognising thoughts and see them for what they are. Are you the thinker of thoughts?

We will get back to awareness later.

Warm regards Vivi

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gracie
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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby gracie » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:10 pm

Yes that is true. Even tho I have seen the I for what it is.( a construct of thoughts, memories that are not real of true). it still is trapping me. It does seem that most of the time it is impossible to see through. It is discouraging to see it and becaseu of I then go right ahead and jump on the suffer train.

Beliefs are made of a few things. Childhood experience, cultural/social rules, personal experience but all of those seem to created by thoughts that have latched on to the prevailing so called reality. The labeling.. Then it seems they form a gaggle of thought that then becomes a belief. It is there that I become a prisoner.

I can see that I is a thought and myself is the same as the I thought. I can see this pretty clearly ..But I keep getting on the thought train so to speak. It is like a bizarre Felinni movie. It scares me .

Am I the the thinker of thought?
I am not sure. If there is no I then "I " can not think the thoughts.?

Ps I am not getting the alerting emails that you have answered.. I am finding our thread by going on to the one on one and searching for it. What to do?

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:01 pm

Ps I am not getting the alerting emails that you have answered.. I am finding our thread by going on to the one on one and searching for it. What to do?
At the bottom of the page you will find a box to tick, if you want to be alerted about new messages.
Beliefs are made of a few things. Childhood experience, cultural/social rules, personal experience but all of those seem to created by thoughts that have latched on to the prevailing so called reality. The labeling.. Then it seems they form a gaggle of thought that then becomes a belief. It is there that I become a prisoner.
Yes, beliefs are made of all that. So here we are not interested in beliefs, nor in what thought labels experiences as. What is useful is direct experience. After experiencing the mind (=thoughts) gets busy labelling the experience. So from now on report experience only (as close as you can get) There is nothing wrong with labelling, it happens all the time, it is just not interesting.
Am I the the thinker of thought?
I am not sure. If there is no I then "I " can not think the thoughts.?
Good! Here is something to look at. Where does thoughts come from. When something is experienced notice the labelling setting in, are you in control of the thoughts labelling. Can you decide NOT to label something, can you decide NOT to think or to think only happy thoughts? Can you stop thinking?

Describe your experience

Greetings
Vivi

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gracie
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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby gracie » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:04 pm

Good! Here is something to look at. Where does thoughts come from. When something is experienced notice the labelling setting in, are you in control of the thoughts labelling. Can you decide NOT to label something, can you decide NOT to think or to think only happy thoughts? Can you stop thinking?

Thoughts seem to come from nowhere. They appear. I am experiencing them as
mechanical.
they automatically label, it is what they do , redundantly Its sort of maddening to experience it. I am definately not in control of this.
No I can not decide to stop labeling. the more I watch the more labeling happens. I can not stop thinking.
Interesting...

it seems that there can be a decision to think only happy instead of negative thoughts. It takes great effort and ends up with the thoughts doing what they will.
"they".. that is making them something real. the machine like quality is curious. It lets me see that they are impersonal They have been trained and do what they were taught to do. and more. a really smart computer..

That is what is running my life!!?

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:42 pm

Nice work Gracie!
That is what is running my life!!?
At the moment it seems to be what is believed to run your life, thoughts being labelled as 'MY thoughts'!
But what is doing the labelling? You? Or does the labelling just happen? What believes? You? Or does believing just happen? Can you find a 'believer'?

Greetings
Vivi

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gracie
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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby gracie » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:19 pm

Vivi,
Yes the thoughts are being labeled as My thoughts are running my life.
The labeling just happens automatically I think. A robot kind of thing.
an organic robot? So a conditioned pattern cranking out thoughts is labeling.
If I came from a different culture different thought patterns would be occuring?

What is doing the labeling? the pattern? the thoughts automatically going for it emerging from this pattern of response?
It is not me that a creates these thoughts, I can see that.

Ah, the believer.. That appears to be me believing these thoughts that are not real.
The believer is closer than the thoughts. The thoughts are abstract but the believer is personal. It is vulnerable. It is a child.
I experience it as that.It is here that I am stuck.
Thank you thank you !
ps tried to find the button for the email alert . I am on the one on one as another conversation .... dont see a button at the bottom of the page.

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:06 pm

Hi Gracie

Good!

Yes! It is not you that creates thoughts!
The thoughts are abstract but the believer is personal. It is vulnerable. It is a child.
I experience it as that.It is here that I am stuck.
How can the believer be experienced as personal, when the personal 'I' does not exist??
It is vulnerable, it is a child....What is?
It is where I am stuck...who is stuck?

Isn't vulnerable, being a child, stuck..simply labels? What is labels? What is labelling?

Check it in experience.

Warm regards Vivi

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:28 pm

At the bottom of this page there is a blue/violet bar, at the left side of that bar there are three boxes, the one in the middle has to be ticked in order to give alerts of new replies. Hope you succeed :)

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gracie
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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby gracie » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:38 pm

Finally the blue violet bar made since:)).

How can the believer be experienced as personal, when the personal 'I' does not exist??
It is vulnerable, it is a child....What is?
It is where I am stuck...who is stuck?

Isn't vulnerable, being a child, stuck..simply labels? What is labels? What is labelling?
The personal I does not exist but there is a believer of that thing that does not exist. It just seems t be more real, separate from the thoughts. Interacting with the thoughts.It seems like the believer is the one that gets caught with all the emotions.
I can see that the believer is being tricked as in the santa claus fantacy.
The believer is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
The labels, yes these things are all labels, sooo, the believer is a thought? thought up by the thoughts labeled by the thoughts? oh.....
Labeling, is an organization of things, a way to think, it may be taught also it may be in the brain to do this.The thoughts need a believer, a sort of "as below" yin and yang. OR are the thoughts just thoughts and the believer just that with no meaning??
I can barely see this but I can see it.
Now I can also see that all of this , the thoughts the believer, the emotions all are taking place in the awareness. They are labels, all of them. So is is all a play and something is getting something out of it.(or not)
They keep sneaking up on me ambushing the experience of seeing.
wheew

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Re: I would like to work with Dreamer

Postby dreamer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:09 pm

Gooood!

Stay with this for a day. What happens?

greetings Vivi


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