I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

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zenagazelle
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I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:23 pm

I have been reading some of the 21 stories in the book, and a few days ago I had a full day of Being (stillness of mind, a deep peace, senses were enhanced, being right here in the moment, without a 'me') as a result of something I read. This happens a little more frequently lately, from reading something or spontaneously, but always when night time come it may be that 'I' have expectations to wake up in the morning still in that natural state (or whatever it's called.) As if ego could manage things! So frustrating.

Inevitably, every night for months now, I wake up with a constricted chest and the sensation of fear is there. I sit with it and it dissipates. Images or thoughts come up, and I ask 'who is there?' And nothing is there. I have not been sleeping well for quite awhile. I cry a lot without knowing why, but it isn't exactly tears of suffering. Grieving?
Life circumstances are very uncertain right now, but at those awakening times, it all 'so what?' There is no future or past, just the present wonderous, amazing moment of aliveness. Of flowing with Life.

Then there are days of many thoughts, feelings and sensations and I feel as though I 'lost it,' even though I know there is no 'I', and have experiences of this, there must be something holding me back. I am obsessed with looking to see what is there that might be more conditioning or identification. I am noticing, however, that moods/feelings and thoughts are less sticky and I am less reactive or gripped by thoughts and feelings! Many pass through quickly.

I am searching for so long (40 years) and I am so tired, so worn out from this..so ready for this looking/seeing to take place.
Often I see my child 'self' and I feel the innocence, the absolute knowing that there is no separation, the wonder and curiosity this entity of beingness. The not-knowing and the timeless state. I know this has been with me eternally!

I sure do appreciate this gift to have a guide. If Elena is available, I would love that--I saw her in the Batgap interview and I hope she is ok in regard to the big storm that hit Staten Island. But if not Elena, then I will be happy with whoever takes the time to work with me. And, thank you so much.
ZenaGazelle

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cosmiK
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby cosmiK » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:31 pm

Hey Zena,

I will be your guide.

There are a few ground rules, please respond to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least every day.
2. I will post questions, and you will answer them.
3. When you answer you answer 110% honestly,
4. and when you do answer, you answer from your direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

----

Write honestly yet succinctly, what your Expectations for Liberation are? how will it change your life?

with Love.

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zenagazelle
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:28 pm

Hey Zena,

I will be your guide.

There are a few ground rules, please respond to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least every day.
2. I will post questions, and you will answer them.
3. When you answer you answer 110% honestly,
4. and when you do answer, you answer from your direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

----

Write honestly yet succinctly, what your Expectations for Liberation are? how will it change your life?

with Love.
Hello Cosmik,
Thank you for your help and your time. I agree to the conditions! I need to go out for a bit, and when I return I will answer your question.
Do you need to know anymore about my background? I feel the need to share some more of this with you, but perhaps it is not necessary.
Ciao,
Zena

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cosmiK
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby cosmiK » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:41 pm

Zena,

Sure.

Look forward to your response,

With Love.

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zenagazelle
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Hi cosmiK,
I just posted an entire reply, and then pressed some key and lost it all No clue as to how it happened, so now I am going to start over....hmmmm. I better do it on Word Doc and transfer it.

No background this time! :)
Write honestly yet succinctly, what your Expectations for Liberation are? how will it change your life?
I want to say, to be able to maintain the already felt/sensed and visceral happenings of beingness I have had lately, but who is maintaining? I ask myself if it is my mind answering this because of the word 'expectations' but I just know that some sort of process is happening, and then I seem to lose it. I don't know what the fear is that may be blocking me.

My life is just happening when there is no 'I', and it feels so natural and right and, well it just is what has always been there. I have felt this lately, with a rush of energy, vitality, wonder and delight! I knew this as a child. My life is always changing. I cannot say that 'it' will change my life and make it somehow better--except for less suffering, because when I am 'there' there is no suffering or mind or me, just life, or I am life. Tears come, smiling, senses are very sharp, stillness in mind, a felt sense of joy.

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cosmiK
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby cosmiK » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:04 pm

Hey Zena,

yeah, doing it in word and transferring is helpful :)

Okay so thanks for sharing Expectations. Firstly, this process is simply meant to see through the illusion of a separate self. Secondly, Expectations are simply attachments to an imagined future / self and as such will not serve you. When noticed, drop them. When noticed again, drop them again :) Put 110% attention on this process.

By your writing it seems like you want to maintain a certain 'state', and as you will see, this is not about maintaining any state, as the desire itself to maintain and achieve a certain state is based on, in some way, the notion of a separate self, and in some way, the desire to change What-Is. You also speak of "I" or "mind" or "me" like these are substantial things, and as we will see, there are no such things. And you also have this idea of the opposite which is perhaps 'beingness' or 'being' which is somehow better of more preferred than when there is an 'I' present (as if there was ever an "I" present that could ever be apart from any such 'beingness'). Put aside all of these concepts that you put over What-Is, or Experience, and just put 110% attention to this process.

Let's begin our investigation. Please refer to noticed and observed Experience, here and now. No thought speculations and keep your language as simple as possible:

When you use the word "I" or "me" what does it point to, here and now?

When you say "my life"... where is this owner and claimant in Experience, here and now?

Is there any separation between You, and everything else in Experience?
describe this point of separation as best as you can here.

with Love.

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zenagazelle
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:48 am

When you use the word "I" or "me" what does it point to, here and now?
It points to a 'doer,' This is what the mind creates. Simultaneously, right now there is just typing. Fingers are typing, eyes are watching the page, words are appearing automatically without thinking. At the same time there is noticing by the mind...a pause in the flow. Ok, so no resistance to this 'what is,' Just continue on. All is part of the flow. Mind trying to get in on the act of just typing...thoughts of 'where is the flow?' Mind to change it to a project. Ok, just notice.
Back to fingers typing. Sensations of fatigue--burning in eyes. A sadness. Heaviness in chest.
Hearing sounds, sneezing, click of keyboard, truck starting outside, faint smell of toast. Eyes are tired. Feel a need to stop now and continue tomorrow with other 2 questions, as this body is tired--it's bedtime.

Thank you for your time and the questions, CosmiK.

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zenagazelle
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:34 am

You also speak of "I" or "mind" or "me" like these are substantial things, and as we will see, there are no such things.
Had to say one more thing, so 'I' can sleep ok. Its about the language thing. Being careful in previous posts, to put quotes around 'I' and 'me' so 'you' can see its just language. Its very frustrating to leave those words out and start sounding like nondualists with their this entity, or this body is...that really bugs 'me.' We humans have a language
I thought I made it clear that my visceral experiences are without an I or me. But it is seeing this preference for beingness that you are speaking of. 'I' is part of beingness you are saying. (See I said 'you' and so have you said 'you'--this enough to drive 'me' crazy!) 'I' Know there is NO 'I', but 'my' mind is saying this 'I' is separate, this is what you are pointing to. Yeah? I get the maintenance part you spoke of. That was good.
And you also have this idea of the opposite which is perhaps 'beingness' or 'being' which is somehow better of more preferred than when there is an 'I' present (as if there was ever an "I" present that could ever be apart from any such 'beingness'). Put aside all of these concepts that you put over What-Is, or Experience, and just put 110% attention to this process.
I am sorry, but you sound like a recording/machine. I don't feel any warmth or heart from you. Are you male? Had to say that, come what may. I am honestly asking for a female guide now--someone with warmth.
Put aside all of these concepts, you said. Hey, I am open wide and a feeling being here. 'I' don't think its possible for 'me' to be vulnerable with you. There is a fragility here.

Thank you for listening
Zena

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cosmiK
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:13 am

Hey Zena,
It points to a 'doer,' This is what the mind creates. Simultaneously, right now there is just typing. Fingers are typing, eyes are watching the page, words are appearing automatically without thinking. At the same time there is noticing by the mind...a pause in the flow. Ok, so no resistance to this 'what is,' Just continue on. All is part of the flow. Mind trying to get in on the act of just typing...thoughts of 'where is the flow?' Mind to change it to a project. Ok, just notice.
Back to fingers typing. Sensations of fatigue--burning in eyes. A sadness. Heaviness in chest.
Hearing sounds, sneezing, click of keyboard, truck starting outside, faint smell of toast. Eyes are tired. Feel a need to stop now and continue tomorrow with other 2 questions, as this body is tired--it's bedtime.
Check in Direct Experience for a "mind". Is there such a thing? Or is just a reference to a stream of thoughts and maybe some sensations labelled "head" ?
Had to say one more thing, so 'I' can sleep ok. Its about the language thing. Being careful in previous posts, to put quotes around 'I' and 'me' so 'you' can see its just language. Its very frustrating to leave those words out and start sounding like nondualists with their this entity, or this body is...that really bugs 'me.' We humans have a language
I thought I made it clear that my visceral experiences are without an I or me. But it is seeing this preference for beingness that you are speaking of. 'I' is part of beingness you are saying. (See I said 'you' and so have you said 'you'--this enough to drive 'me' crazy!) 'I' Know there is NO 'I', but 'my' mind is saying this 'I' is separate, this is what you are pointing to. Yeah? I get the maintenance part you spoke of. That was good.
Don't worry too much about not using "I" and "me". Since it was the beginning of our conversation together, I had to find out what you mean when you use your terms, and tell you that it is important to drop other concepts that you may have picked up, and just focus on noticing and experiencing. If those concepts happen to be accurate ways for you to reflect Experience, then that is fine too. Many times people use the term 'mind' , 'beingness' and 'I' as if they are ACTUAL things... that is why this conversation happens :)
I am sorry, but you sound like a recording/machine. I don't feel any warmth or heart from you. Are you male? Had to say that, come what may. I am honestly asking for a female guide now--someone with warmth
This is not about patting you on the back or making you feel 'warm'. And I'm not sure how you can 'feel anything from me' either... I am willing to bet those are just feelings arising :) This is about seeing through the assumption of a separate self, of someone that can actually be hurt by some random nutter named "cosmiK" on the internet. If you really have a "Strong fire to SEE" as you mentioned in your topic, I can help you BURN... yet if you want some luke warm water... I can certainly ask for another guide to come in.
Put aside all of these concepts, you said. Hey, I am open wide and a feeling being here. 'I' don't think its possible for 'me' to be vulnerable with you. There is a fragility here.
I see... I am direct and I will push you to the very edge. I am not here to baby anybody, and I know there is nothing that can be harmed. I will challenge you to see that there is no separate "You"/being there that can be hurt. All these emotions that are arising are fine, and can be felt fully, but we point our attention to Direct Experience to see if there is ANYONE that is feeling them? ANYONE that these feelings arise to? That is what this process about.

It's your call. Just give me the word and we can get you another guide. If you are truly ready to burn and go fully through the fire, then I can guide you through that ;)

with Love.

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zenagazelle
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:40 pm

Check in Direct Experience for a "mind". Is there such a thing? Or is just a reference to a stream of thoughts and maybe some sensations labelled "head" ?
Wow. Just sitting here, thoughts stopped... I've always thought of mind and thoughts as same thing. It's a question with no answer from thoughts.
that it is important to drop other concepts that you may have picked up, and just focus on noticing and experiencing. If those concepts happen to be accurate ways for you to reflect Experience, then that is fine too. Many times people use the term 'mind' , 'beingness' and 'I' as if they are ACTUAL things... that is why this conversation happens :)
Here you are saying that mind is not a thing...object. Its a concept. That rings true. Noticing and experiencing, beingness as I used it, is like 'just is.'
This is not about patting you on the back or making you feel 'warm'. And I'm not sure how you can 'feel anything from me' either... I am willing to bet those are just feelings arising :) This is about seeing through the assumption of a separate self, of someone that can actually be hurt by some random nutter named "cosmiK" on the internet. If you really have a "Strong fire to SEE" as you mentioned in your topic, I can help you BURN... yet if you want some luke warm water... I can certainly ask for another guide to come in.
I dont' want pats on the back, just some human warmth in the interaction. you really came across as a robot, but now that things are rolling a bit, I am looking at this as feelings arising from my conditioning, as you said, and this is not new as there is lots of that. Feeling fully sensations in the body, it is constriction in chest for many months, waking me from sleep every night. It has not completely dissipated. Maybe it never will. Just sensations.
'Fear' is the label. Take fear by the hand, soothe it? It is a phantom, but feels so real in the body, these sensations. thoughts/images--nothing is there though. this "I" at this moment is still 'there' as a separate self.

Are we not 'Life Itself' manifesting in a human body with a uniqueneness? This is another concept?
Yes, I do burn to see through the of a separate self that can be hurt by cosmik. Why the 'random nutter' statement? Nothing is random. Life Itself is a mystery, but nature is its reflection, and all I see is the perfection of the comings and goings...the perfect 'timing' of things when time is let go of. Letting go of the separate self is when Life is amazing. But there is no separate self to let go of. So it is thoughts that make it so.
see... I am direct and I will push you to the very edge. I am not here to baby anybody, and I know there is nothing that can be harmed. I will challenge you to see that there is no separate "You"/being there that can be hurt. All these emotions that are arising are fine, and can be felt fully, but we point our attention to Direct Experience to see if there is ANYONE that is feeling them? ANYONE that these feelings arise to? That is what this process about.

It's your call. Just give me the word and we can get you another guide. If you are truly ready to burn and go fully through the fire, then I can guide you through that ;)
Ok. Let's go forward. Push me. there is obsession, after all.

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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Hi Zena,
Here you are saying that mind is not a thing...object. Its a concept. That rings true. Noticing and experiencing, beingness as I used it, is like 'just is.'
Sure, we can call it 'beingness' or 'just is'. I call it Experiencing... it is the same as reading this sentence... a simple Experiencing that always is. From this experiencing thought may label parts of this Experience in such a way "mind" or "self" or "chair" or "table".

And If I say anything, test it out in Experience, here and now, and give me your honest report - that is what is most important. I ask, point... you investigate, give me your honest CLEAR answer with respect to Experience as much as possible with as simple language as you can.
I dont' want pats on the back, just some human warmth in the interaction. you really came across as a robot, but now that things are rolling a bit, I am looking at this as feelings arising from my conditioning, as you said, and this is not new as there is lots of that. Feeling fully sensations in the body, it is constriction in chest for many months, waking me from sleep every night. It has not completely dissipated. Maybe it never will. Just sensations.
Right... this process can seem very repetitive and robotic, and that is because the illusion of 'self' and of 'separation' is equally repetitive and robotic. What this process points to is incredibly simple, yet it is constantly overlooked, so the pointing back to this simplicity can for some be extremely repetitive and frustrating.

Whatever is felt is felt Zena. It can be felt completely and totally. There is no denial of feelings advocated here at all, quite the opposite. Whatever arises is free to arise.

Our process is simple, as we constantly point you to check if there is ANYONE that these feelings arise to? if there is a ME that feels these sensations? if there is an "I" that is feeling constriction? That pointing may seem repetitive, but it is essential for undermining the binding to the illusion of being someone or something that is separate from everything else. This is the core misunderstanding and structure from what suffering is built on. Once this is seen through, issues do not have ANYTHING to hold on to anymore, and often dissolve on their own accord. Yet... our main focus in this process together is to see through the illusion, NOT to get rid of any issues or conditioning or to stop feeling anything. Keep that focus, and put up with my repetitive and robotic pointing to your own Experience, and you will wake up from that illusion in no time.
'Fear' is the label. Take fear by the hand, soothe it? It is a phantom, but feels so real in the body, these sensations. thoughts/images--nothing is there though. this "I" at this moment is still 'there' as a separate self.
Yes, 'fear' is a label we often give to a feeling-sensation felt. You can just drop the label and feel it fully and completely and thank it for its message. What we investigate if there is ANYONE the fear is protecting. If you were in a dark alley being chased by a mugger... i would guide you to RUN!!! but when facing the simple Truth, I would ask you to FACE FEAR DIRECTLY and ask WHO is being protected... and not just ASK... but actually LOOK & SEE in Experience, if there is actually a real 'I' / 'me' that needs to be protected.
Are we not 'Life Itself' manifesting in a human body with a uniqueneness? This is another concept?
It is a concept Zena, and you can see that for yourself. We don't need to put anymore concepts on Experience, we just need to investigate this supposed separation. When I was seeking for 10 years I had a bucketload of concepts... and they had all sorts of nice rings to it like "emptiness manifesting as form" "spirit taking shape in human form" "Life waking up to itself"... and while these may be accurate reflections of What-Is... we attempt to directly Experience What-Is ... NOT conceptualize it ... we attempt to see through the illusion of separation, NOT put a fancy label on it to make it feel better for a few minutes. Has that ever ever worked?
Yes, I do burn to see through the of a separate self that can be hurt by cosmik. Why the 'random nutter' statement? Nothing is random. Life Itself is a mystery, but nature is its reflection, and all I see is the perfection of the comings and goings...the perfect 'timing' of things when time is let go of.
I always call myself a nutter ;)

Anyway... let's get robotic here, and really focus on this process, on this visceral, here and now Investigation in to Direct Experience.
Letting go of the separate self is when Life is amazing. But there is no separate self to let go of. So it is thoughts that make it so.
Okay... but this also seems to be some more thoughts about it. Let's really get down to the process here.

I'll give you a way to investigate Experience and report in a way that is common to us. Since we share a 'human experience', we can say that grass is green, honey is sweet, and soon we will be able to agree that there is NO separate self :)

Please read the following article and CONFIRM for me that Experience, here and now, can be broken down in to the 3 aspects:

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ce-de.html

If you are wondering about emotions, then you can notice that emotions are also just sensations with a label such as "happy" "sad" "fear" given to it, and are apparent so when labels are dropped. we are not denying emotions here, just simplifying the labeling of such phenomena.

Once we can agree on this system of breaking down Experience, then we can start investigating the illusion carefully in Experience and break down any assumptions of self/separation together.

with Love.

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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:08 pm

Checking in CosmiK! Will post later today :)

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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:26 am

but when facing the simple Truth, I would ask you to FACE FEAR DIRECTLY and ask WHO is being protected... and not just ASK... but actually LOOK & SEE in Experience, if there is actually a real 'I' / 'me' that needs to be protected.
Hello Cosmik~
I have done inquiry into this very thing and have asked then really looked to see who is being protected. Sometimes I get an image of an infant crying and I ask, 'is this it (self) and the answer is "no, there is nothing there--only an image" Or I notice thoughts about this, and say 'these are thoughts.'
So, I ask this now and look, and feeling the sensation is all there is in this dE. It is not as sharp as it is in the middle of the night, but it is there and it feels like it is alive and then it is dissipates on its own. There is no real me being protected, but thought has doubts, but what is that? just a thought.. and this constricted sensation had no message. Thought was expecting something.
Please read the following article and CONFIRM for me that Experience, here and now, can be broken down in to the 3 aspects:

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ce-de.html
Here and now there are thoughts(first aspect) experienced about the experience of typing this. The thoughts say that there is an experiencer typing these words because there is an "I" doing it. A 'myself' is typing. Those thoughts are always there 'watching' what is being done by 'me.' The assumption-- this as a habit (YES, robotic) of a separate I and the experience. Thought is thinking about what to write. However I notice the experience of typing words is just happening now.

(second aspect) Click, click sounds, breathing sounds, a lit up surface, voice sounds, sensations of fingers on keys--thoughts with labels to describe this experience which just is happening.' I feel my fingers on the keys.' Directly experiencing these sensations, there is no separate 'I' feeling the sensations--just the sensations there now. Thoughts want to make it automatically that self is doing. Thoughts seen as fading, disappearing right now.
Hand scratching the head, jittery sensation, sighing, wrinkled brow...body is expressing something here...wiggling. Sensations my thoughts label as 'huh?' or 'impatience.' "Look at that!' thoughts want to know. HA! that is funny...a smile, air out the nose. Now there is some laughing. 'Wait a minute here...' How silly.

Pick up an object. Look at it dE. Feel it as sensation in hand. Look for awhile. Am I trying to make something happen here? (thought) Thought says dE won't work for long! There is an object, and you are looking at it! HA!

Presence is there with object--- it has no name. Thought wants to describe it. Nothing comes. A relaxing. Experiencing just seeing, feeling. No desire to name it. Just "blankness.' Nothing. OK, breathing. Being. Thought says, "Zombie!" HA!
Life-- this breathing 'of me.' (third aspect.) Yes, I try to describe this now. It takes effort. Many pauses with nothing, no thoughts. Words are necessary to communicate this dE.
Just breathing and the sound and movement is needed.

Thank you for your time!
Zena

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cosmiK
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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby cosmiK » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:37 am

Hi Zena,

thanks for the response. It seems are you noticing and communicating, and doing it with respect to dE... great.

So, let's look at these thoughts and images.

Are they YOUR thoughts?

are YOU the thinker of thouhts?

can YOU think and choose a thought?


with Love.

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Re: I keep 'losing it!' strong fire in me to SEE

Postby zenagazelle » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:58 pm

Are they YOUR thoughts?

are YOU the thinker of thouhts?

can YOU think and choose a thought?
At this moment, intellectually I can say they are not my thoughts, but instead thoughts having to do with programs and patterns--conditioning, if you will. Felt real that 'I' and the believed in 'other' are bringing up emotional reactions. Not trying to control anything. Thought just is. Am attempting to see this as sensations of tears, discomfort/constriction etc. Attempting to just sit here with it, fully feeling it.
Obviously there is a belief of a separate self at this moment, but simultaneously in this moment that self is not there. Frustrating as hell. Like some sort of dissonance... this 'hurt of self' is not real, and the sensations can pass quickly. Perception can be that I am in a very difficult life situation, bringing up a lot of core wounds (of who?) which are supposed to be programs since infancy that "I" believe in to be 'me.' Infant programmed, but in reality, infant is pure being. That is obviously felt to be truth right now.
Well, sensations are there now to be looked at. Chest hurts, that's it. There is a stickiness to thoughts, wanting to be taken seriously.
Emotions, thoughts, images, sensations--all part of Realilty/Life. But self who is thinking, having images or sensations does not exist, and never did.

No, I cannot think and choose a thought! :) I can believe I am, but I am not the thinker of thoughts. Have been times when I laugh at the thoughts and see it all as a big joke....a theatre, a drama, the great illusion. Suffering.

Thanks Cosmik

Thanks Cosmk


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