This fire is out of control...

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:23 am

Journeying with a Native Shaman (through drumming and trance) for several months marked the beginning of my desire to give death to my ego. Impatiently wanting to go further (and faster), I enrolled in an intense Shamanic program with a western shaman in the United States.
The methods were not explained beforehand, and there was physical violence involved. Without going into explicit detail, "I" freaked out and left.
Now removed from the situation, it is clear that benefit and awareness (still) happened, and that the experience inspired me to continue on with the process; albeit a different avenue.
Based on the "Burning Zone" description, it sounds like a good place (for me) to begin at LU. I'm not looking for nice, superficial bs. I'm looking for a brazenly blunt guide to assist with my ego death.

- VLisa

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:33 am

Would like to add that I have watched all the LU videos/interviews with Ilona and Elena but have not read the book. I realize that "ego death" is not LU terminology; I am looking for a guide to help me see that there is no separate self.
Thanks

User avatar
Bill
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby Bill » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:57 am

Hi, I'm Bill, I'll work with you.
Let's go for it here. Nothing will be held back.

Here's what I need from you:

You agree to post at least once daily.
Give 100% honesty from your direct experience.
Answer all questions asked fully.
You agree to dig for this until its found.
I'll point you in the right direction to find it.


Tell me what you want out of this.
How is your life going to be different?
What are you expecting?
List everything you can think of...

Bill

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:35 am

Hi, I'm Bill, I'll work with you.
Let's go for it here. Nothing will be held back.
Cool. Hi Bill. Would love to get started. Earlier today, I posted in One-on-One, asking for Ilona to be my guide, but I haven't heard back (i appreciate you all and realize that the REDS are in high demand). What would be the proper protocol to follow in order to continue here with you?

Lisa

User avatar
Bill
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby Bill » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:13 am

I didn't notice that one.
We have a lot of people asking for Ilona, as she is so visible.
The seeing is seeing, and all we do is point.
We can all do that.

Let's do this.
I would prefer to work out in the one on one.
You've written a bit more out there.. we could use that.
You tell me what to change the title of that post to thats
on the one on one forum and
I'll change it and we can go from there.
It really doesn't matter where we do this though.

Bill

User avatar
Bill
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby Bill » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:15 am

Actually I see they are the same posts.
let's just stay here. I'll delete that post.

Go ahead with the questions I asked.
OK?

Bill

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:21 am

Got it.
Thanks Bill,
I'll get answering here in the Burning Zone.

Lisa

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:07 am

Hi Bill,
You agree to post at least once daily.
Give 100% honesty from your direct experience.
Answer all questions asked fully.
You agree to dig for this until its found.
I'll point you in the right direction to find it.
I agree to all that you ask of me.
Tell me what you want out of this
.

I want to see for myself (with undeniable clarity) that I dont exist. once i have truly seen it, i want to feel the sensation of my bum, nestled deep down (for the first time) in the passenger seat of a driver-less vehicle, knowing nothing; yet experiencing everything: relaxing into surrender
How is your life going to be different?
Life will continue life-ing, as it always has. Perhaps my spine and intestines will disentangle themselves from my solar plexis once they've gotten the memo that they can relax.
What are you expecting?
List everything you can think of...


I have no expectations in terms of results, rewards, consequences etc. I expect to experience many intense emotions ranging from fear to grief to relief to elation, as the process unfolds.

I'm most curious to experience life force flowing freely, when I am not there ignoring it; to see what I am sans stories, lies and excuses. It sounds both terrifying and well..liberating.

Bill, this is as much as I can do tonight. I'm going on a 3 1/2 hr road trip (in 5 hours), and while I know I'm not really driving; my body will be the only one in the car.

I will check before I leave to see if you have further work for me, and I will be available anytime after 6pm CST to "chat."

My schedule is generally flexible, and I'm always up late.

With Gratitude,
Lisa

User avatar
Bill
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby Bill » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:13 pm

I want to see for myself (with undeniable clarity) that I dont exist. once i have truly seen it, i want to feel the sensation of my bum, nestled deep down (for the first time) in the passenger seat of a driver-less vehicle, knowing nothing; yet experiencing everything: relaxing into surrender
Hi Lisa,

This is available right now if you just sit still, and truly let go of mind and body for just an instant.
We do live in the world though and 'this' is what we talk about and work on.
Reality. Everyday normal reality.
People want experiences and flashes of insight and 'states'.
And then what happens, is that all of those things recede...
And what's left is just everyday normal reality.
This is where we'll be looking.

Just let all of them go for now (the expectations) while you're here.
Let go of any other spiritual practice while you doing this as it might hinder you.
They will be there to go back to if needed/wanted.

I would recommend you read the Gateless Gatecrasher's book while you're doing this.
A very nice companion to the dialogue.

Also 2 videos on our video page that have to do with what we call LOOKING.
These are excellent. http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c on Looking
http://youtu.be/eB6oPN3Bz_Y on Meaning. These are short. watch 'em a few times.
These will help you in your quest here.

OK first question, if you've skated around the site, you've probably seen it:

There is no I. No separate self. No I that is in charge of things. No I to be awakened. No I that is thinking thoughts and controling things.
None. Nada. Zero.
Life is just living. Lifeing. All is going on naturally.

Let this in and consider it very seriously...that this is the truth.. What comes up for you?
Thoughts, feelings, perceptions... what comes up for Lisa?

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:51 am

Hey Bill...just returned from "daytrip." Will read your post and get working.
Lisa

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:09 pm

I would recommend you read the Gateless Gatecrasher's book while you're doing this.
A very nice companion to the dialogue.
Yes it is! After reading five Liberations from GG, I now realize I have been limiting my communication with you because I'm afraid to use the word "I"; so I'm going to riff for a bit using 'I" with awareness.
OK first question, if you've skated around the site, you've probably seen it:
Yes, I HAVE seen glimpses that there is no I; no separate self; that I don't exist and that life goes on just fine without me, but the glimpses are brief ; not vivid as described in LOOKING.

The video (coupled with the GG stories) brought up some blocks:
DESIRE to see...with honesty and to be open to the possibility that you might be wrong.
I feel a burning desire to see, but after reading one of the liberations, I resonated with the admission that maybe he didn't actually have the desire to see, HONESTLY.

I began to explore why I would (what the benefit would be to) have a burning desire to see truth, DISHONESTLY. The answer came immediately in the form of laughter. I am clinging to the belief that life, truth, any/everything NEEDS "my" spin to "make it more exciting."
Wall of knowing is too thick so simple things are not visible - Ilona Gateless Gatecrasher's
More core beliefs: Complicating the simple; creating false obstacles; LYING; instead of directly experiencing what is TRUE
Let this in and consider it very seriously...that this is the truth.. What comes up for you?
Thoughts, feelings, perceptions... what comes up for Lisa?
i close my eyes to look. i see the image of "I". i begin to say aloud "I don't exist." Image of "I" paces back and forth along a corridor of Green Rooms in a theatre.

Standing in front of the closed doors are two faceless popeye-bodied mimes. Image "I" is trying to open each of the doors, but the muscle-bound mimes won't let "I" through. i ask why they're standing there. One rolls up its sleeve to reveal a tattoo of the word FEAR. i stare at FEAR. i thank it and bow to it, but FEAR stands strong and begins speaking to "I"; reminding "I" that it will always be there to protect "I". "I" grows angry, nudges past FEAR, and begins to open one of the doors.

The second mime falls head first from the rafters; body retracting just seconds before landing between the doorway and image "I". As its body bobs about, "I" sees the word FRUSTRATION fingerpainted on its forehead. The doorknobs begin to pop out and in (on different parts of the doors...like whack-a-mole). "I" viciously grabs for the knobs; FRUSTRATION"S arms grow long (like Monty Python's "Where's the Fish?") and begin to wave in "I's" face. Image "I" pouts; then announces, "I've grown tired of this game."

"I" vanishes into thin air...poof.
None. Nada. Zero
.

physical sensation of eyes opening; seeing has happened. there is no separate self.

Exhausted, mournful; relieved. confusing thoughts about the future. what was behind the doors? does it matter? what now? Disneyland?

Hey Bill,

Am I on the right track?

With Gratitude,
-Lisa

User avatar
Bill
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby Bill » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi Lisa,

Yes I think you are the right track.
I can see you have a flair for the dramatic. :) Its a bit easier if we talk about this stuff with our true gut feelings. Making more stories out of stories can be hard to decipher sometimes, even though your story was interesting... it adds another layer on... Can you see that? This is the burning zone so I am telling it like I see it.

Unless you all of a sudden have a big pop, don't try to 'get ahead' of things.
Just take this as it comes. It will be a good exercise for you to do this it seems.
I can tell you're ready. That is good!
Its good you're reading the book. It will help.

So you have some of frustration and fear.
Its good you can see those. Let them come up as they will without pushing them away.
if they get in your way, do let me know. This is very normal..
I began to explore why I would (what the benefit would be to) have a burning desire to see truth, DISHONESTLY. The answer came immediately in the form of laughter. I am clinging to the belief that life, truth, any/everything NEEDS "my" spin to "make it more exciting."
Excellent insight.. and you're not really lying in the comment below that, its just the truth you're seeing now..

Here's some questions for you.

Where do your thoughts come from?
Is there a place of origin, in reality?
Are they 'your' thoughts?
Can you choose your thoughts?
LOOK closely at this and report back.


As far as LOOKING, I wrote this yesterday to another person about its meaning here on the forum.
This LOOKING is the key ingredient (if there was such a thing) for our work here.
It's necessary to see that there is no self.

This is a commentary on Laurant's video:
You will bring down the LOOKING from the land of concepts to the land of experience.
real LOOKING.
The LOOKING is already happening right now. Its pure LOOKING.
Before you have the expericence of liking, disliking whatever, you need to SEE it
This LOOKING, this SEEEING is already going on right now. Its very simple. Pure perception.
You will see there is no self with this same SEEING, this same LOOKING.
Bring this seeing from thinking to actual SEEING.
Becuase you look at things through the filter of the past
Just need a few sec of this pure innocent LOOKING.

Bill

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:31 pm

I can see you have a flair for the dramatic. :)
ahh, busted ;) yes i do, and THANKS for calling me out on it. i came here to be burned; it's good that you're keeping me on track.
Can you see that?
i do see that. as i was falling asleep, it hit me that not only had the story added an extra layer of complication, but that yet again, the nonexistent "I" was the do-er...the decid-er...the control-er.

i will shift the exploring and communicating of emotions that arise in the now reality.

will get going on the work and report back later.

With Gratitude,
Lisa

User avatar
vlisavsbyaga
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:47 am

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby vlisavsbyaga » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:34 pm

Where do your thoughts come from?
Some thoughts come from memories (ultimately thoughts), other thoughts occur in response to external stimuli (judgements, observations...which are also thoughts); then there are those that arise from an unidentifiable source.
Are they 'your' thoughts?
After spending hours thinking, looking, checking, testing, the honest answer is there is no such thing as "my" thoughts.
Is there a place of origin, in reality?
Through direct experience, there is no place of origin, but I'm having resistance to answering "nowhere"; although I've read that's the correct answer on LU.

Couldn't the answer equally be anywhere/everywhere? I'm stuck :(
Can you choose your thoughts?
I have seen and know as truth that self doesn't exist. So no "I" cannot choose; there is no "I' to choose thoughts.

At times, thoughts come automatically. During these, I can feel the simultaneous flow of all happening at once (no dividing line between seer/seen/seeing).

BUT let's say something interrupts the flow (i.e. the doorbell rings). I feel a shift in awareness. It doesn't feel like ownership of thought; more like retraction from oneness: The brain (inside Lisa's body) fires thoughts more rapidly; the body reacts by blood pumping, muscles tensing etc...

Argh >:/ This is hard to put into words.

It feels as though something exclusive to Lisa makes the choice whether (or not) to answer the door.

Does this make sense?

Lisa

User avatar
Bill
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: This fire is out of control...

Postby Bill » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:17 pm

Is there a place of origin, in reality?

Through direct experience, there is no place of origin, but I'm having resistance to answering "nowhere"; although I've read that's the correct answer on LU. Couldn't the answer equally be anywhere/everywhere? I'm stuck :(
Tell me Lisa, what is your answer to your question?
I have seen and know as truth that self doesn't exist. So no "I" cannot choose; there is no "I' to choose thoughts.
This is our goal here. Are you saying you have seen thru the illusion?
Or just intellectually?
At times, thoughts come automatically. During these, I can feel the simultaneous flow of all happening at once (no dividing line between seer/seen/seeing).
BUT let's say something interrupts the flow (i.e. the doorbell rings). I feel a shift in awareness. It doesn't feel like ownership of thought; more like retraction from oneness: The brain (inside Lisa's body) fires thoughts more rapidly; the body reacts by blood pumping, muscles tensing etc...
Argh >:/ This is hard to put into words.
It feels as though something exclusive to Lisa makes the choice whether (or not) to answer the door.
Does this make sense?
There is a sense of self, but that is all it is. After awakening, that sense remains, but you ultimately see through it as an mind-created illusion. It’s not you.

It does seem we can contrive things and have some control over
our thoughts, but when left alone its very obvious there is no control.
We can't stop thoughts from coming or really choose what to think.
They just come...good thoughts bad thoughts mixed up thoughts crazy thought sometimes.
We don't know what our next thought will be.

Are your thoughts possessive? Are they all about you?

Try this.. look at the computer you're typing on.
Is it YOUR computer? Or just a computer?
How does something get to be MINE?
What the process that makes something mine?


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 37 guests