belladonna123 this is thread is for you

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belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:07 am

Hello and a warm welcome to you, Belladonna123,

Shell here. I got your message and just set up this thread for you.

I have a couple of questions for you:

1)Would you like me to call you Belladonna123? Or by another name?

2) Are you fine with commiting to post here everyday, even if it is only to say, "sorry, I cant post today"?

3) Would you like to introduce yourself briefly, let me know why you are here at LU, and what your expectations are of "liberatoin?"

4) Are you willing to be 100% honest in your answering? There is no possiblity for your answers to be "wrong". They just need to be your answers...and not answers that others have given that you may have read.

So, a couple of questions turned into 4.

Look forward to hearing from you. We have a time difference and I work 16 hours a day. So it will be unlikely that you will get my replies before you go to bed at night. So dont wait up worrying, OK?

Warmly,

Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby belladonna123 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:34 am

Hi Shell, you can call me Karen. Yes, I will post everyday. I began my spiritual journey in my mid-twenties by reading Shirley Maclaine's book and then dabbling in psychic phenomena. In my early thirties, I spent most of my time studying Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson, and other spiritual teachers including psychic mediums. I spent the rest of my thirties reading A Course in Miracles, Dr. David Hawkins, Kryon, I got into Reiki, energy healing, etc. The last few years I have been focusing on A Course in Miracles, other Course-related materials and all Indian non-dualistic teachings including Ramana Maharshi, Gangaji, Papaji, Mooji, Sri Nisargadatta Maharshi, etc. Now I am tired of reading and searching. My expectation is that I would like to achieve Peace of Mind. I AM willing to be 100% honest. No problem - I understand about the time difference and schedules, am very grateful for your help.

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:20 am

Good morning, Karen,

Thank you for your introduction. It is helpful to hear a little bit about your background.

So, lets jump in together:

A couple of questions:-

1)Peace as an expectation of liberation seems very reasonable...but can we even leave this expectation to the side for the moment?

2) For the next little bit, we are going to enter a very practical, applied, disciplined stage to our journey without a distance together. It is important that you lay your current spiritual readings to the side for a bit and give this your undivided attention. Will you agree to this? (You can continue to read from this site, if you feel inclined to).

3) What comes up when I say, "there is no separate entity self in real life at all"?

Please, let question 3 be your focus today...and write fully about your own direct experience: what does come up?

Looking forward to your answers,

Warmly,

Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:52 am

Good morning, Karen,

Just touching base with you. How is the direct looking at what comes up to question 3 going?

Sending you a hug,

Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby belladonna123 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:35 pm

Hi Shell, I'm sorry I didn't know you had posted, I had expected an email alerting me. I'm glad I decided to check this morning. Again, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I will leave the expectation of peace aside. I can do that. I have actually felt lately that reading has become repugnant to me, I have no desire to read a bunch of spiritual teachings anymore, so that will be easy to do. As far as #3) I feel very confused like my brain is going to explode. What is the point? Why do we have all these lifetimes, cycles of birth and death, if not for the evolution of a personal self/soul/spirit? Why all these spiritual teachings? Why bother with anything if we're just like plants? I guess that's it. Thank you Shell! Karen

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:07 pm

Hi there, dear Karen,

"No worries", as they apparently still say downunder. Computer glitches may happen or not happen..all just part of life lifing along.

I'm really glad to hear from you.

And...I',m very excited with your honest answer, because it was honest and because it was your answer :-) Fabulous and inspiring indeed.

I'm going to paste the second bit of your answer in here in blue ink, and address it, OK?

"I have actually felt lately that reading has become repugnant to me, I have no desire to read a bunch of spiritual teachings anymore...

Can we look just a wee bit more closely at this? Like, really, really, really look?

1) The fact appears to be that reading happened.
2) The fact appears to be that a thought happened "reading has become repungent"
3) The fact appears to be that an emotion happened, based on "repungant".
3) The fact appears to be that another thought happened, " there is no desire to read a bunch of spiritual teachings anymore.

4) The fact appears to be that emotions happened (likely irritation, despair, anger, feeling of hoplessness, and under that, if you looked hard enough, fear).

Question: "Where and what is the "I" that this all happend to? That is what I want you to look very very hard for.
You seem very sure that there is indeed a personal I...and now its your job to tell me exactly where this "I" is. By direct looking. Use all your five senses. And tell me where your "I" is. Look everywhere. And dont forget under the bed and inside your best friend's left wrist. Look in every part of the body. And tell me where this famous "I" is that I can not find. OK?

2)And when you are done with that, look at the thoughts that continue to keep thoughting along, one after the other.
And let me know exactly where this famous "I" is in all of those thoughts that just keep thoughting and thoughting along.Because I can not find it.

As far as #3) I feel very confused like my brain is going to explode.
Because your brain can not give you the answer, no matter how hard it tries and tried and tries to find it.
OK; so the brain feels like it is going to explode.
Where do you get the proof from that it is your brain?
What is telling you that it is your brain, and why are you believing something that you have been told, without checking whether it is true for you or not?


What is the point? Why do we have all these lifetimes, cycles of birth and death, if not for the evolution of a personal self/soul/spirit? Why all these spiritual teachings? Why bother with anything if we're just like plants? I guess that's it." [/color]

Stricktly speaking, incarnation is not true once or many times. But, let's leave this for a bit later. Because, you are going to find out, directly and viscerally, not second hand through me or anyone else, that this is true. And you will be overjoyed. Which is why we are doing this together. So that the direct knowing becomes yours.

You have lots of homework here, dearest Karen. And I look forward to very full answers.

It would help me if you bullet point your answers behind each of my questions and comments. It will also help you to stay focused on the task at hand.

Gratitude is happening here for this sharing. Enormous gratitude is gratituding.

Love, Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby belladonna123 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:24 pm

Hi Shell-

I have actually felt lately that reading has become repugnant to me, I have no desire to read a bunch of spiritual teachings anymore...*Can we look just a wee bit more closely at this? Like, really, really, really look?
1) The fact appears to be that reading happened.
2) The fact appears to be that a thought happened "reading has become repungent"
3) The fact appears to be that an emotion happened, based on "repungant".
3) The fact appears to be that another thought happened, " there is no desire to read a bunch of spiritual teachings anymore.
4) The fact appears to be that emotions happened (likely irritation, despair, anger, feeling of hoplessness, and under that, if you looked hard enough, fear).

Question: "Where and what is the "I" that this all happend to? That is what I want you to look very very hard for.
You seem very sure that there is indeed a personal I...and now its your job to tell me exactly where this "I" is. By direct looking. Use all your five senses. And tell me where your "I" is. Look everywhere. And dont forget under the bed and inside your best friend's left wrist. Look in every part of the body. And tell me where this famous "I" is that I can not find. OK?

**LOL! The I is definitely not inside my best friend's left wrist - that's for sure. I can't find it physically. I cannot see, hear, smell, feel or taste the "I". But I feel like the I should be my thoughts, feelings, opinions. But then I thought of a person who is severely retarded, perhaps cannot form an opinion or belief, would he have an I? I would say yes. But then I think of a comatose person who can't think or feel, isn't there still an I there? Yes I would say. But then I think, "Where is it then????" The only answer I come up with is a life force or energy surrounding the body.


2)And when you are done with that, look at the thoughts that continue to keep thoughting along, one after the other. And let me know exactly where this famous "I" is in all of those thoughts that just keep thoughting and thoughting along.Because I can not find it.

*I guess I just attribute all of this to a brain function. That the brain generates thought based on perceptions the brain has made. It has perceived it is an I and so all thoughts revolve around I.

As far as #3) I feel very confused like my brain is going to explode. Because your brain can not give you the answer, no matter how hard it tries and tried and tries to find it. OK; so the brain feels like it is going to explode.
Where do you get the proof from that it is your brain? What is telling you that it is your brain, and why are you believing something that you have been told, without checking whether it is true for you or not?[/color]

*The brain is in my body, so it is in my brain. I know, then how do I know it's MY body? I guess because my brain controls it. The brain is telling me I am an I and I guess who would question their brain?? It rules over everything. But the fact that I can think about something I am thinking with is not possible?? Brain is feeling like it's exploding again....

Thank you so much!
Karen

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:39 am

Hi there Karen!

Great to receive these answers from you. Thank you.

I just learnt how to use the quote function for replying. Will make things a lot easier to read for us. Can you learn it to? Its easy and there is a thread for learning it.
I will find it and paste it in here or in a separate answer to you. OK? :-)
**LOL! The I is definitely not inside my best friend's left wrist - that's for sure. I can't find it physically. I cannot see, hear, smell, feel or taste the "I".
Well, that is already a great dis-covery. A personal I can not be found with any of the 5 senses. Good for you.
And I'm hearing a wee bubble of laughter at the sillyness of an I being located in a wrist...or anywhere in the body.
But I feel like the I should be my thoughts, feelings, opinions.
Well dear, the thoughts and feelings and opions that run through this body and mind each 24 hours day would add up to abuot a million in ever changing variety. Give or take a few hundred thousand.

So this theory just does not work...and plus...it is just theory or a story and not real. If you are the thoughts, feelings and opionions running through the body and mind..well then "you" are new and entirely different every half second or so of linear time. Nope...not accepting that answer for you or anyone. But dont take my word for it. Never do that. Look, really, really, really look, and see if it is true for you, too.
And report back to me on this.
"Where is it then????" The only answer I come up with is a life force or energy surrounding the body.
Karen dear, you may have read that there is an astral body, or a prana body or a spirit body. And indeed, some of us can even see it whatever it is the naked physical eye. Treat it like a toe. It is nothing to get excited about. I see the astral body...and believe me, there is no more "I" in it to be found than in a toe. Or a wrist. Or a brain. Etc. But, again, dont take my word for it. You are way way too worthy to be satisfied with beliefs. They wont do at all. Our goal for you is truth.

To help with this, why dont you close the eyes...and with closed eyes, conectrate on touching something. Is there, with closed eyes, at all a distinct border between what appear to be two objects? (eg, hand and table top; hand holding hand).

Continue a little further with this one: close eyed, find whether or not there is a border to be sensed between the surface of the skin...and the air or space.
Report what you dis-cover from this exercise.
I guess I just attribute all of this to a brain function. That the brain generates thought based on perceptions the brain has made. It has perceived it is an I and so all thoughts revolve around I.
He he he. We don't do "I guess" here. Not accepted as being good enough for you. You are way more worthy than that. No I guesses accepted for you. OK? . Lol.

The brain is a piece of meat and some people are quite partical to eating it. People have been looking for the mind since linear time seemed to begin. And you know what? No one has found it.

So, what we are left with, is thought.
Please, dear Karen, look at thought. Very closely but without strain. Just like looking at a hand. Just look. Notice everyting about thought. Notice where it comes from, Notice to where each thought goes. Notice what thought is.
Should your attention wander, should you get caught up in a story, please bring your attention back to the task at hand. Dont skip over this exercise lightly. We need you to put all of your heart into it. Do this exercise as often as you can during the coming day and evening.
And report back.
I guess because my brain controls it. The brain is telling me I am an I and I guess who would question their brain?? It rules over everything. But the fact that I can think about something I am thinking with is not possible?? Brain is feeling like it's exploding again....
Hmmmm, I cant resist. We just established that the brain is a piece of meat. And you are letting a peace of meat tell you what you ARE? Lol! A piece of meat rules over everything????? Ha ha ha ha! I love you for making me laugh until the tears roll at 07:30 in the morning!!!! Fried brains for breakfast and where is the RULER then??? He he he.

It is not a fact that you can think about something. You doesnt exist. So dis-cover the fact.
Question: Do thoughts come and do thoughts go and what informs you that those thoughts have anything whatsoever to do with what you are? Could it be that thoughs thought, just like the clouds do their thing?

Well, you have loads of homework here and we need you to spend as much time as possible attending to this homework. Go deep into this homework and report very fully.

Much love,
Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:09 am

PS, dear Karen, this is another piece of homework to go along with the above:

Look at these words:

chair, table, hand, pen, Santa Claus, flower, tree, pot, pan, Karen.

9 Words or labels. Which of these labels lable real things?
Which of these labels do not label real things?

Thank you in advance for doing this one, too.

Love, Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:21 am

Hi again dear Karen,

here is the link to learn the quote function. Its really easy. When you select "reply", make sure you select "full editor" when the page to reply comes up.

Underneath the empty space which is there for your reply, is a box with what you are replying to. To quote from this, select the text you want to quote, and scroll back up to the "quote" button on the upper right corner.
And hey presto, that quote will appear directly in the empty space that is for your reply.

Cool, eh? And it makes following this thread soooo much easier!

Thank you my friend,

Love Shell

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby belladonna123 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:37 pm

Hi again dear Karen,

here is the link to learn the quote function. Its really easy. When you select "reply", make sure you select "full editor" when the page to reply comes up.

Underneath the empty space which is there for your reply, is a box with what you are replying to. To quote from this, select the text you want to quote, and scroll back up to the "quote" button on the upper right corner.
And hey presto, that quote will appear directly in the empty space that is for your reply.
Cool, eh? And it makes following this thread soooo much easier!

Hi Shell, I appreciate your patience, I am NOT technologically saavy at all, so I will follow your instructions but I'm just warning you don't be surprised if I screw something up. I am going to go ahead and work on replying to your other posts now. Thanks! Karen
Thank you my friend,

Love Shell

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby belladonna123 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:43 pm

PS, dear Karen, this is another piece of homework to go along with the above:
Look at these words:
chair, table, hand, pen, Santa Claus, flower, tree, pot, pan, Karen. Words or labels. Which of these labels lable real things? Which of these labels do not label real things?

The labels that label real things that I can "know" through one or more of my five senses are: table, hand, pen, flower, tree, pot, pan

The labels that don't label real things are: Santa Claus and Karen.

I wanted to say you can see "images" of Karen and Santa Claus (at least what the myth of Santa is supposed to look like) but then I realized that is not the same thing. Hmmm I feel weird putting myself or Karen in same category as Santa Claus. This is interesting, I am going to think about this for awhile.
Thank you in advance for doing this one, too.

Love, Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby belladonna123 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:13 pm

But I feel like the I should be my thoughts, feelings, opinions. So this theory just does not work...and plus...it is just theory or a story and not real. If you are the thoughts, feelings and opionions running through the body and mind..well then "you" are new and entirely different every half second or so of linear time. Nope...not accepting that answer for you or anyone. But dont take my word for it. Never do that. Look, really, really, really look, and see if it is true for you, too. And report back to me on this.
Very interesting, first yes what you said is totally true. My thoughts are always all over the place, how could those possibly be me???? and obviously feelings, beliefs, opinions change all the time, those cannot be me. Before I even read this, I was thinking of a wedding I am going to be going to and I was also thinking of someone there who would probably want to take total control over everything and how I would be okay with that. I began thinking that this person I am sure would never even realize that she is seeking this control and then I realized, she has no control over these thoughts that are telling her she needs control! They just happen! Does this make any sense? What I'm trying to say is that I can see we have no control over what we think. This is VERY radical for me, will read this over again a few times.

"Where is it then????" The only answer I come up with is a life force or energy surrounding the body.

Karen dear, you may have read that there is an astral body, or a prana body or a spirit body. And indeed, some of us can even see it whatever it is the naked physical eye. Treat it like a toe. It is nothing to get excited about. I see the astral body...and believe me, there is no more "I" in it to be found than in a toe. Or a wrist. Or a brain. Etc. But, again, dont take my word for it. You are way way too worthy to be satisfied with beliefs. They wont do at all. Our goal for you is truth.
I never thought about it that way, but you're right - it is like a toe or finger or even brain.
To help with this, why dont you close the eyes...and with closed eyes, conectrate on touching something. Is there, with closed eyes, at all a distinct border between what appear to be two objects? (eg, hand and table top; hand holding hand). Continue a little further with this one: close eyed, find whether or not there is a border to be sensed between the surface of the skin...and the air or space. Report what you dis-cover from this exercise.
No, there is no DISTINCT border between any of these things.
I guess I just attribute all of this to a brain function. That the brain generates thought based on perceptions the brain has made. It has perceived it is an I and so all thoughts revolve around I. He he he. We don't do "I guess" here. Not accepted as being good enough for you. You are way more worthy than that. No I guesses accepted for you. OK? . Lol. The brain is a piece of meat and some people are quite partical to eating it. People have been looking for the mind since linear time seemed to begin. And you know what? No one has found it.
Yep, I have to agree with you. The image of someone eating a cow's brain or even a human brain just struck me.
So, what we are left with, is thought. Please, dear Karen, look at thought. Very closely but without strain. Just like looking at a hand. Just look. Notice everyting about thought. Notice where it comes from, Notice to where each thought goes. Notice what thought is. Should your attention wander, should you get caught up in a story, please bring your attention back to the task at hand. Dont skip over this exercise lightly. We need you to put all of your heart into it. Do this exercise as often as you can during the coming day and evening. And report back.
I will do this.
I guess because my brain controls it. The brain is telling me I am an I and I guess who would question their brain?? It rules over everything. But the fact that I can think about something I am thinking with is not possible?? Brain is feeling like it's exploding again....

Hmmmm, I cant resist. We just established that the brain is a piece of meat. And you are letting a peace of meat tell you what you ARE? Lol! A piece of meat rules over everything????? Ha ha ha ha! I love you for making me laugh until the tears roll at 07:30 in the morning!!!! Fried brains for breakfast and where is the RULER then??? He he he.
I'm glad I made you laugh Shell! I believe laughter is the best medicine! :-)
It is not a fact that you can think about something. You doesnt exist. So dis-cover the fact.
Question: Do thoughts come and do thoughts go and what informs you that those thoughts have anything whatsoever to do with what you are? Could it be that thoughs thought, just like the clouds do their thing?
Thoughts come and thoughts go. The thoughts have to do with things I (the body) might be seeing, experiencing, feeling, but they don't really have anything to do with "I". Thoughts thought that could be true.

There is a lot here I'm going to read again and see where it takes me. Thank you Shell!

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby Shell » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:30 am

Dearest Karen,

You made a wonderful effort with the quote function. And quoted yourself, somehow! Instead of quoting from what you were answering to. Did you read your last post? Anyway...great to get it and you have clearly had some rather startling insights. Wonderful!
I was also thinking of someone there who would probably want to take total control over everything and how I would be okay with that. I began thinking that this person I am sure would never even realize that she is seeking this control and then I realized, she has no control over these thoughts that are telling her she needs control! They just happen! Does this make any sense? What I'm trying to say is that I can see we have no control over what we think. This is VERY radical for me, will read this over again a few times.
...yes, this most certainly does make sense! Excellent that you have really SEEN this! Yes...thoughts just "happen".
Life just "happens"!
Question: what did Karen feel towards the controlling friend, when realisation happened that the controlling friend has no control whatsoever over what that body-mind parcel does?
Question: does Karen have any control over what Karen thinks, says or does, or what appears to happen to Karen in life?
Exercise: attempt not to breath. And notice...that is breathing is going to happen...no matter what Karen tries to do...Karen can not stop breathing.


Report back on these question and exercise, OK?
No, there is no DISTINCT border between any of these things.
So, is there an indistict border? What informs you that there is a border at all?
Please answer in full. Go deep and find out.

Please, dear Karen, look at thought. Very closely but without strain. Just like looking at a hand. Just look. Notice everyting about thought. Notice where it comes from, Notice to where each thought goes. Notice what thought is. Should attention wander, should Karen get caught up in a story, please bring the attention back to the task at hand. Dont skip over this exercise lightly.
Perhaps it helps to consider thought watching much like cloud watching. Don't get too caught up in the content of what a bunch of thoughts hold. And if you do, question the content: is it TRUE?
We need you to put all of your heart into it. Do this exercise as often as you can during the coming day and evening. And report back.

Questions: are thoughts REALLY personal? Can you control them? Whether they come and stay or come and go? Are you controlling or giving birth to all of those endless thoughts?
If they do appear to be personal to you...what MAKES thought personal? Look hard for the answer to this.
The labels that label real things that I can "know" through one or more of my five senses are: table, hand, pen, flower, tree, pot, pan

The labels that don't label real things are: Santa Claus and Karen.

I wanted to say you can see "images" of Karen and Santa Claus (at least what the myth of Santa is supposed to look like) but then I realized that is not the same thing. Hmmm I feel weird putting myself or Karen in same category as Santa Claus. This is interesting, I am going to think about this for awhile.
Well, thinking can be good sometimes...but direct looking is better for this.
What is Karen? I expect a long list here telling me what Karen is. Not a theory that Karen does not exist. I want YOU to see that Karen does not exist. So give me the long list of what Karen is. Of what the word or label "Karen" really points to. OK?

And just to make very sure that you have enough homeowork this Sunday ;-), play, through direct exercise, NOT thinking about it, with the idea of or whether there is even anyone even watching or sensing or seeing or feeling.
What is truer: 1) there is only seeing and the seen happening simultaneously?
2) there is a seer, seeing the seen simultaneously?

Have delicious fun with all of this. But, really, really, really do it. Apply all your effort to it all.

Much love,
Shell

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Re: belladonna123 this is thread is for you

Postby belladonna123 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:04 pm

Question: what did Karen feel towards the controlling friend, when realisation happened that the controlling friend has no control whatsoever over what that body-mind parcel does?
Question: does Karen have any control over what Karen thinks, says or does, or what appears to happen to Karen in life? Exercise: attempt not to breath. And notice...that is breathing is going to happen...no matter what Karen tries to do...Karen can not stop breathing.
I felt pity in a way because she is helpless. I wanted to say yes, Karen has control over what she says or does and some of what happens in life. But if Karen has no control over her thoughts and thoughts are what determines what she says and does and what happens to her then she has no control over any of those things. Then I thought who is the Karen that would have control over what Karen does anyway?
So, is there an indistict border? What informs you that there is a border at all? Please answer in full. Go deep and find out.
With my eyes shut I can feel where my hand begins and ends and where the desk begins. But it's kind of like state or country lines - here is USA, here is Canada. There is a border because there are guards, etc. but we name this side USA, this side Canada. But we just decide for ourselves where USA begins and ends and where Canada begins and ends. That isn't exactly like a hand on a desk though. I don't understand this exercise. I mean I can touch flesh that clearly belongs to my body and then I can feel the hardness that is clearly the desk that my hand rests upon. Can you elaborate on this please? IS it like state lines where WE decide where our body begins and ends, but there's no REAL borders? What would be a border anyway? Oh, I feel annoyed with myself right now because I'm starting to feel stupid.

P
lease, dear Karen, look at thought. Very closely but without strain. Just like looking at a hand. Just look. Notice everyting about thought. Notice where it comes from, Notice to where each thought goes. Notice what thought is. Should attention wander, should Karen get caught up in a story, please bring the attention back to the task at hand. Dont skip over this exercise lightly. Perhaps it helps to consider thought watching much like cloud watching. Don't get too caught up in the content of what a bunch of thoughts hold. And if you do, question the content: is it TRUE? We need you to put all of your heart into it. Do this exercise as often as you can during the coming day and evening. And report back.
I had the house to myself this morning and tried to still my mind and not think and I think I managed to do it for 20 seconds or so and then a thought would come. Then I would let it go and try to still my mind again but often a bunch of thoughts would come and I would get caught up in them and forget I was trying to still my mind. Then I would get slightly frustrated and start the whole process all over again, so I would say thoughts come from nowhere and go nowhere. Then as I write this I think, "But what about the Akashic records and people who say every thought and action in the world is documented and is available for anybody to access and this confuses me." I would say I have no way of knowing whether many of my thoughts are actually true or not. I would say most are probably not true though based on past experience.
Questions: are thoughts REALLY personal? Can you control them? Whether they come and stay or come and go? Are you controlling or giving birth to all of those endless thoughts? If they do appear to be personal to you...what MAKES thought personal? Look hard for the answer to this.
No, thoughts come sometimes that have nothing to do with me or my world, sometimes about celebrities, etc. If they are personal thoughts I mean that they have to do with my personal list of things I need to do, thoughts about my friends, family, work. But if I was thinking about my sister, other people could be thinking the same thoughts about my sister, so they really AREN'T personal, right?
Well, thinking can be good sometimes...but direct looking is better for this. What is Karen? I expect a long list here telling me what Karen is. Not a theory that Karen does not exist. I want YOU to see that Karen does not exist. So give me the long list of what Karen is. Of what the word or label "Karen" really points to. OK?
A mom, wife, worker, American, spiritual seeker, sister, daughter, writer, teacher. But there are TONS of people in the world with most, if not all these labels and I wouldn't say they are Karen. I would have to say Karen is all of this existing in a particular place and time - Chicago 2012 in this specific house with this specific family, with this specific job.
And just to make very sure that you have enough homework this Sunday ;-), play, through direct exercise, NOT thinking about it, with the idea of or whether there is even anyone even watching or sensing or seeing or feeling. What is truer: 1) there is only seeing and the seen happening simultaneously? 2) there is a seer, seeing the seen simultaneously?
When I am meditating and I am waiting for a thought to come, to me that proves I am not my thoughts, so there is "something" waiting for the thoughts. So wouldn't there be a seer, even if it's not "Karen"? I am really confused by this question, can you elaborate on this one as well? I'm sorry - I don't mean to be dense. I feel that 1) is the "right" answer though but if I close my eyes, I am not seeing but my desk is still here even though it's not being seen. Is this what you mean?

Thank you Shell, I appreciate your patience!


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