Hi, just getting started.

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melissa123
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Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:41 am

Hi my name is Melissa and I would like be liberated from the limitations imposed by my ego. This has been a long standing desire and now is the time for me to let go of the unnecessary, cross the line of no return, and live from a place of truth. It has been difficult for me to move forward. When I focus objectively on awareness of life unfolding in any giving moment I find myself compelled to interpret and make meaning. I acknowledge that is this is the nature of my false self.
Here is what I what I am considering and working with. There is no "I" and life occurs as the unfolding of experiences perceived through the bodies five senses. Still I am attached to the idea that there is something/someone that is doing the experiencing. Using eye sight for as an example: Without my attachment to “Iness” my eyes simply allow the experience of a visual representation of the immediate environment to be. I find myself with an ingrained assumption that a viewer is necessary to have the experience of sight to occur. I have a persistent feeling that there is something receiving the experience. I feel that ego is fooling me here because there is a persistent urge to reference some sort of receiver of the experience. Who/what the receiver of the experience is baffles me…it may be a remote cosmic computer data base collecting perceptions for the sake of archiving?……….it may be a benevolent void from which all life is created that is collecting our experiences ?…. I really have no clue and the list of possible illusive receivers is endless.
Regardless, I feel that I am simply transferring my ego compulsion. In looking at how this attachment serves my false self I identified these beliefs: I want to live in trust that life experiences will unfold in positive safe experiences. I need to believe that there is a force that intended to give life to the human species. I also need to believe that this force projects unconditional love, and wants nothing more than for humanity’s highest good. I need to believe that this force is available to assistance us as we navigate inevitabilities of life and that this force can help us to respond to life in a way where we can avoid suffering. With all of these musts and shoulds something is clearly askew. Any feedback on blind spots or what is going on here in my attempts to realize the truth would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Melissa

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:18 pm

Hi Melissa,

Welcome to LU and thank you for sharing what you have.

Here at LU, we keep it very simple. The truth is so simple and so obvious that is is often over-looked.

Consider: Having seen, wholly and completely, through the apparent separate "self", what might that be like? Would would be different? Where do beliefs go when there is no believer?

With kind thanks,
John
Hi my name is Melissa and I would like be liberated from the limitations imposed by my ego. This has been a long standing desire and now is the time for me to let go of the unnecessary, cross the line of no return, and live from a place of truth. It has been difficult for me to move forward. When I focus objectively on awareness of life unfolding in any giving moment I find myself compelled to interpret and make meaning. I acknowledge that is this is the nature of my false self.
Here is what I what I am considering and working with. There is no "I" and life occurs as the unfolding of experiences perceived through the bodies five senses. Still I am attached to the idea that there is something/someone that is doing the experiencing. Using eye sight for as an example: Without my attachment to “Iness” my eyes simply allow the experience of a visual representation of the immediate environment to be. I find myself with an ingrained assumption that a viewer is necessary to have the experience of sight to occur. I have a persistent feeling that there is something receiving the experience. I feel that ego is fooling me here because there is a persistent urge to reference some sort of receiver of the experience. Who/what the receiver of the experience is baffles me…it may be a remote cosmic computer data base collecting perceptions for the sake of archiving?……….it may be a benevolent void from which all life is created that is collecting our experiences ?…. I really have no clue and the list of possible illusive receivers is endless.
Regardless, I feel that I am simply transferring my ego compulsion. In looking at how this attachment serves my false self I identified these beliefs: I want to live in trust that life experiences will unfold in positive safe experiences. I need to believe that there is a force that intended to give life to the human species. I also need to believe that this force projects unconditional love, and wants nothing more than for humanity’s highest good. I need to believe that this force is available to assistance us as we navigate inevitabilities of life and that this force can help us to respond to life in a way where we can avoid suffering. With all of these musts and shoulds something is clearly askew. Any feedback on blind spots or what is going on here in my attempts to realize the truth would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Melissa
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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melissa123
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:58 am

Hi John,

Thank you very much for taking the time to read through my lengthy post and respond with some pointers!

What would it be like to see through the apparent separate “self” ? I don’t know. How does one see wholly and completely or through something that is not there? It would be confusing and frustrating. It would be recognizing an absence.

What would be different? Everything would be different. Any meaning formally attached to anything and everything would be irrelevant. My experience of being and relating to the world would be different.

Where do beliefs go when there is no believer? They go nowhere. With no believer there is no belief. A place wouldn’t be needed for what doesn’t exist.
Thanks again!

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:46 am

Hi Melissa,

Thank you for your response.

Just to say, I'm happy to be your guide. If we can look to post at least once each day, if only to say we are unable to, that works really well. Thank you.

Let's go through what you shared:
Hi John,
What would it be like to see through the apparent separate “self” ? I don’t know. How does one see wholly and completely or through something that is not there? It would be confusing and frustrating. It would be recognizing an absence.
Strange paradox isn't it - that to see through the separate "self" is to be aware that no-one is even there to see through it. There'd be no-one even to be confused and frustrated.
What would be different? Everything would be different. Any meaning formally attached to anything and everything would be irrelevant. My experience of being and relating to the world would be different.
In a way, everything is equally relevant.
Where do beliefs go when there is no believer? They go nowhere. With no believer there is no belief. A place wouldn’t be needed for what doesn’t exist.

Good.
(from previous post)

I find myself with an ingrained assumption that a viewer is necessary to have the experience of sight to occur.
Let's focus for a moment on this assumption. It seems to be the case, that each time we loosen our resistance, we see a little more, sometimes a lot more. :)

That resistance is made up of different things, one of those things is such an assumption that the viewer is necessary...so let's work with that.

First of all, how would you describe an assumption? What is it, how is it brought into being, how is it maintained, who maintains it?

WIth best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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melissa123
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:27 am

Awesome. Your guidance is greatly appreciated and I am able to post daily no problem. Spending time contemplating your response and questions has allowed me to begin scratching at the surface of something that I have been trying to scratch at the surface of for a long time. Thanks.

My description of an assumption: It’s a thought/belief that is at the core of a more elaborate belief system.
What is it? : It’s like the Mother thought that acts to encourage creating more thoughts to support its trueness

How was it brought into being? : It presented itself to me somehow. Probably at a young age. It came to me somehow and anchored itself into existence.

How is it maintained? : The belief in the viewer/self is kept alive through impulsive like-minded thoughts that protect it and validate it.

Who maintains it? : The assumption is at the core of this elaborate thought system that is self-sustaining. In writing this, I am noticing that I am compelled to take some responsibility here as if I need to admit my ownership in choosing my thoughts. Compulsion aside no one maintains it. It is the thoughts that maintain themselves. Even my thought to take some ownership and responsibility for my thought processes may have been the thought system protecting itself?

Thanks John!

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:01 am

Hi Melissa,
Awesome. Your guidance is greatly appreciated and I am able to post daily no problem. Spending time contemplating your response and questions has allowed me to begin scratching at the surface of something that I have been trying to scratch at the surface of for a long time. Thanks.

My description of an assumption: It’s a thought/belief that is at the core of a more elaborate belief system.
What is it? : It’s like the Mother thought that acts to encourage creating more thoughts to support its trueness

How was it brought into being? : It presented itself to me somehow. Probably at a young age. It came to me somehow and anchored itself into existence.

How is it maintained? : The belief in the viewer/self is kept alive through impulsive like-minded thoughts that protect it and validate it.

Who maintains it? : The assumption is at the core of this elaborate thought system that is self-sustaining. In writing this, I am noticing that I am compelled to take some responsibility here as if I need to admit my ownership in choosing my thoughts. Compulsion aside no one maintains it. It is the thoughts that maintain themselves. Even my thought to take some ownership and responsibility for my thought processes may have been the thought system protecting itself?

Thanks John!
Wonderful stuff.

So who are you without this assumption that a viewer is there?

With best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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melissa123
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:54 am

I am not a who. I am not an I. There is just experience of existing. The becoming in a moment of survival.

Thanks,
Melissa

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:20 am

Hi Melissa,
I am not a who. I am not an I. There is just experience of existing. The becoming in a moment of survival.

Thanks,
Melissa
What's the experience Melissa as you walk around, meeting people...share with me. Some examples would be great.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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melissa123
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:25 am

What's the experience? Great question: It’s hard to say.

When I practice awarness my experience involves an understanding that all that comes to be is representational and there is no ridding oneself of an ego and at the same time an awareness that am no one. Experience unfolds on its own, what comes is what it is. When interacting with people the experience involves an awareness that we share this conundrum of self/ selflessness and there is a fleeting hilarity of our seriousness. My own feelings and thoughts come and I allow them to be as they are and remind myself to not identify with them and have been preoccupied with the wonderment of each person I encounter. Everyone I see or speak to is utterly amazing and our interaction fills me with an experience of gratitude and empathy and something I don’t have a word for. The closest word to represent it would be love/radical acceptance of what is.

Thanks John!

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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:18 am

Hi Melissa,

Thank you for this.
Everyone I see or speak to is utterly amazing and our interaction fills me with an experience of gratitude and empathy and something I don’t have a word for. The closest word to represent it would be love/radical acceptance of what is.
Yes. :)
What's the experience? Great question: It’s hard to say.
When I practice awarness my experience involves an understanding that all that comes to be is representational and there is no ridding oneself of an ego and at the same time an awareness that am no one. Experience unfolds on its own, what comes is what it is. When interacting with people the experience involves an awareness that we share this conundrum of self/ selflessness and there is a fleeting hilarity of our seriousness. My own feelings and thoughts come and I allow them to be as they are and remind myself to not identify with them and have been preoccupied with the wonderment of each person I encounter.
Some pointers for you:

Can awareness be practised?

How does ownership of thoughts and feelings work?

How can thoughts be allowed?


Give it everything...dig in and around, below the surface.

Speak soon,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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melissa123
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:51 pm

Can awareness be practiced?
Awareness can’t be practiced. Language is amazing. There are some aspects of mind and ego that seem to reflexively shape experience. To what extent though? Is there an escaping the I that impulsively must have what is? In this process I find it easier to allow that impulse and structure to be as it is. It seems to be helpful in attempts to experience what is. Practicing awareness it not what is occurring. It’s more about the experience of allowing and this involves remembering that there may be some distortion in thoughts and feelings that don’t reflect reality as it is. Allowing what is in this sense lets other thoughts and feelings to occur that may not have arisen if I did not acknowledge my lack of control and lack of ownership.

How does ownership of thoughts and feelings work? “Iness” is a thought structure. In this thought system I don’t want to know that I don’t exist. “I” am separate from others and everything becomes an object outside of that which is “me”. Ownership allows me to maintain separation and really just creates a lot of pain and sadness. In this system even relationships become property. When someone dies we experience it as a personal loss…We say “my so and so died.” Out of the wonderment of the ineffable this ownership is ethically disturbing. Our ability to appreciate others as miraculous ineffable perfection becomes horrifically reduced with this sense of others being something akin to property. This false sense of having or owning an experience maintains “Iness” and protects “Me” from the reality that I am no one. There is no one there that is having anything. This is okay. There is a lot of fear driving the ego. “Iness” seems to be motivated by fear of death and the related anxiety of having no control over that which is. “Iness” creates the illusion of control and even the illusion of death. Consciousness has no need and certainly does not need an I. Consciousness continues with or without a me to have it. Thoughts and feelings are part of human consciousness and there’s just a continuous flow of this. Thoughts and feelings continue to pop up and appear effortlessly.

How can thoughts be allowed? Acknowledge the illusion of there being a gatekeeper to existence. Accept the nuances of experience as they are. Acknowledge the humor found in making value judgments on shades of gray. Then continue to let be what is. Thoughts in this way are like a continuous stream of bubbles all equally round perfect and fragile.

Thank very much John!

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:17 pm

Hi Melissa,

Thank you again for the full response. We're moving along nicely.

Let's zoom in a bit. :)
Can awareness be practiced?
Awareness can’t be practiced. Language is amazing. There are some aspects of mind and ego that seem to reflexively shape experience. To what extent though? Is there an escaping the I that impulsively must have what is? In this process I find it easier to allow that impulse and structure to be as it is. It seems to be helpful in attempts to experience what is. Practicing awareness it not what is occurring. It’s more about the experience of allowing and this involves remembering that there may be some distortion in thoughts and feelings that don’t reflect reality as it is. Allowing what is in this sense lets other thoughts and feelings to occur that may not have arisen if I did not acknowledge my lack of control and lack of ownership.
LOOK to see if "Melissa" can allow anything? Where is this "Melissa" that allows things?

Who is there to acknowledge anything?

Shocking, maybe even saddening, but there it is.
How does ownership of thoughts and feelings work? “Iness” is a thought structure. In this thought system I don’t want to know that I don’t exist. “I” am separate from others and everything becomes an object outside of that which is “me”. Ownership allows me to maintain separation and really just creates a lot of pain and sadness. In this system even relationships become property. When someone dies we experience it as a personal loss…We say “my so and so died.” Out of the wonderment of the ineffable this ownership is ethically disturbing. Our ability to appreciate others as miraculous ineffable perfection becomes horrifically reduced with this sense of others being something akin to property. This false sense of having or owning an experience maintains “Iness” and protects “Me” from the reality that I am no one. There is no one there that is having anything. This is okay. There is a lot of fear driving the ego. “Iness” seems to be motivated by fear of death and the related anxiety of having no control over that which is. “Iness” creates the illusion of control and even the illusion of death. Consciousness has no need and certainly does not need an I. Consciousness continues with or without a me to have it. Thoughts and feelings are part of human consciousness and there’s just a continuous flow of this. Thoughts and feelings continue to pop up and appear effortlessly.
Where is this ego that fear is driving?

You're not there "Melissa". And neither am "I".
Consciousness has no need and certainly does not need an I. Consciousness continues with or without a me to have it.
Nicely put.
How can thoughts be allowed? Acknowledge the illusion of there being a gatekeeper to existence. Accept the nuances of experience as they are. Acknowledge the humor found in making value judgments on shades of gray. Then continue to let be what is. Thoughts in this way are like a continuous stream of bubbles all equally round perfect and fragile.
Again, who can acknowledge anything?

Speak soon,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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melissa123
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:00 pm

Okay, so I am nowhere and nothing. No here, no now. No one is home. Acknowledging and allowing don’t exist. Anything ending in “ing” just don’t ever actually happen. How strange. The notion of “seeing reality as it is” even seems totally pointless because there is no seeing going on. No sense in sense making. Can’t say much about this. There is just sooooooooooooo much of nothing.

Thanks John!

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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:56 pm

Hi Melissa,
Okay, so I am nowhere and nothing. No here, no now. No one is home. Acknowledging and allowing don’t exist. Anything ending in “ing” just don’t ever actually happen. How strange. The notion of “seeing reality as it is” even seems totally pointless because there is no seeing going on. No sense in sense making. Can’t say much about this. There is just sooooooooooooo much of nothing.

Thanks John!
How strange indeed. :)

Let this settle Melissa, as you go about your day.

No seeing, no seer - the ordinariness of LIFE right here, right now - immersed in the mystery of LIFE.

Come back and share with me what is noticed, what feelings come up.

With warmest wishes!
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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melissa123
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Re: Hi, just getting started.

Postby melissa123 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:38 am

Hi John,
Thanks very much for the guidance and pointers!

All sorts of stuff came up. Most prevalent is the sense of answer-less questioning and contentment. I can’t say what it feels like to be alive knowing that I have no clue what all of this is or what it’s about. I feel like it’s really okay to stop there. It felt surprisingly bland not bland depressing or bland disappointing. Just didn’t feel like asking myself how or why. Not much of a motivation to jump to imaginary conclusions. For example I looked at a hibiscus tree and noticed the whiteness of one its flowers and noticed the petals being moved by the wind. I felt for a brief moment that I was apart of this living painting and had the fleeting desire to slice the canvas where the flower was. I felt curious clueless and content to leave it at. Then I back into work and started getting work done and I felt humorous.

Your description of life as Mystery was striking. It totally is. Mystery abounds and at this point I don’t have a desire to solve any of it or chase my own tail.


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