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Jorge786
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Hello

Postby Jorge786 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:51 pm

Hi all, I'm new to this site, my name is Jorge, I'm from Ecuador, I'm not a native speaker, so apologize for any mistake in writing.
interested for several years in this area, I am not a "awakened" person, but I know the issue.
Maybe I have "seen" something, the "absence" of an identification with my mind but I still feel, many times, I see things from a perspective of "I" and "you". So I'm still not sure that the lack of identification with the mind is not only a kind of schizophrenia and not "enlightenment" or liberation ;-).
I do not know what exactly the support mechanism you have in this site but any help to "clarify me" or to the "realization" of the "presence" will be greatly welcomed and appreciated. I must admit I've been going around in my "paradoxes" unable to escape, despite understanding that there was "no escape" and (as a friend told me) "you are in that place, you were never out."
So I put myself in your hands

Best regards
Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
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Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:16 am

Hi Jorge, It would be my honor to guide you if you would like. There are only two commitments, 1st, is to communicate with me on a reg basis, it would be good if it were once a day. 2nd, Is to try to put aside any preconceptions you might have an keep an open mind. The first question and this already might be your experience from the above message. Are
you your thoughts? I am curious as to your mention of schizophrenia, are you a mental health worker? Also please tell me a little about yourself if you are ready to start. Warmly, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Jorge786
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: Hello

Postby Jorge786 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:43 am

thanks Metta, i'm very glad from your warm welcome.

I accept the commitments with gratitude

At your first question: no, i'm not only mi mind, mi thougths are part of "me" in my brain, i think (or feel i dont know) there is "something" behind the mind and the thoughts, sometimes is like "I" can see the thoughts emerging from somewhere... thinking, but definitly I'm not only my mind or my thoughts, they are part of me, born in my mind.

not, i'm not a health professional, I have a little training in that issue because I'm volunteer in a phone support to people with troubles, and some knowledge of Jung's theories, i'm working in system development, a programmer.

I'm in my fifties, and since my twenties in many esoteric paths of various kinds, until about four or five years (perhaps earlier) when I plead agnostic, and I find a friend who introduced me to Tolle and this "concept", idea, or form, I found the advaita and related to that. might have preconceived ideas or prejudices of what this is.

Certainly I'm not going anywhere, and possibly is because I hope to find "fireworks" at the end of a search.

Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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Metta777
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Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:57 am

" there is something behind the mind" Yes. What is it? Are your thoughts " I " ? Is the past real ? Can it be changed? You don't exist. Describe how those questions make you feel. Also describe your bodily sensations as well as you can. How does it feel when the thought arises that you don't exist? Go into detail.
"This too shall pass"

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Jorge786
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: Hello

Postby Jorge786 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:59 am

" there is something behind the mind" Yes. What is it?

I do not know what is "it" behind, maybe is nothing, that does not think, it seems that only looks at "that other" who is thinking, but it's definitely something else, but right now I'm the "thinker" answering questions, I have some fear that this is the ezquizofrenia of which I spoke, this is a "decoupling" of reality?

Are your thoughts " I " ?
I think it's more complex than that, I do not know who I am, maybe I'm just a wealth of memories that give identity and tell me that's me, and a personality that is "Jorge" and that's a problem because that personality feel offending, gets irritated when are "attacked" or think it is attacked

Is the past real ?
the past "was", there is no more (same for the future), there are only the present, that is a "cientific" fact, i'm here answering your question, my son is hearing music right now, my wife playing cards, every "instant" was, i can understand that, but I wonder, who is understanding that?, me? and... is that (my question) helping me?, I cant "feel" the present, is the "I" here thinking

Can it be changed?
No

You don't exist.
my body exist, maybe the "I" dont exist (righty now that is only a concept to me), maybe "I" want that (expect something different) and thats is my problem.

Describe how those questions make you feel. Also describe your bodily sensations as well as you can.
How does it feel when the thought arises that you don't exist?

sometimes felt fear of nonexisting, is like a dead, the "nothing", i felt it's a real death, it's frightening

right now i feel this is like a "mental game", not going anywhere, the "I" wants to feel something extraordinary

Jorge

PD: I hope I was able to explain well because my English.
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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Metta777
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Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:47 pm

Yes, you explained it very well Jorge. Thank you. The one thing we know to be true is that your thoughts are not "I".
"it seems that only looks at "that other" who is thinking, but it's definitely something else," It is stated in your message that it is definitely something else. That's correct. Labels are part of the ego, are they real? No, they are just thoughts. Thoughts come and go like the wind, invisible and gone.
"my body exist, maybe the "I" dont exist " There is no past, it is not there, your body doesn't exist in the past either, or you could go the the past anytime you want. Your body does not exist in the future, because the future is only imagination. Both are stories we tell ourselves. There is no reality in them. Can your body decide to go to the future, NO. Because it is not real. The only thing we have is the present moment, NOW.
"sometimes felt fear of nonexisting, is like a dead, the "nothing", i felt it's a real death, it's frightening" You feel fear, this is natural. The ego always feels fear if it thinks it will not be in control. Something is existing, so you cannot die. What is it that exists? There is no time limit on this, it is sometimes short and sometimes longer, but time is a manmade thing. Don't worry, we all come to the right destination, but the journey is more important. :-) So think about this carefully, if "I" doesn't exist, something does exist what does that mean? Just relax and let the thoughts flow. Are you senses, sight, hearing, touch, smell, are they " I " ? Also, again describe your breathing and body sensations when thinking of this. Are you breathing slow and regular, fast, and shallow? Warmly, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Jorge786
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: Hello

Postby Jorge786 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:08 am

...So you cannot die,

that phrase has caused an "insight" into me, it's real!, if there's nothing inside, if there is not "me" and the other "things", then everything is one thing, then only there is a transformation, not "death" like my perception said, nothing dies!.

and now, I relax, my breathing is calm, I feel the need to meditate, and let my senses "work", I will write tomorrow

thanks for this
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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Metta777
Posts: 880
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Location: Northeast USA
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Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:05 am

YES!!!!! Very good Jorge. Your welcome. Continue to let your breathing and senses do their work, feel deeply.
........"then everything is one thing,"......... :-)
"This too shall pass"

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Jorge786
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: Hello

Postby Jorge786 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:22 am

Thanks Metta

Let me make a comment: sometimes I feel fear about to lose the humanity in me, i know in a somehow is stupid, because at last, humanity is a sort of pain.
I feel I would be lost the desires, interests, this joy I feel to be, the joy of my relationships, goals, joy of achieving these goals, I will lose those things?
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
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Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:40 am

No, in releasing your self from all the labels, expectations, illusionary thoughts, false ideas, ego, you have more joy because living is in the present, no false thoughts to disturb you. All is one thing. Tell me, Jorge, how can your thoughts be real when you think you are watching them. When a baby is born the baby does not know he is separate from the mother. Only through conditioning, labels, teaching thoughts and ideas to the baby eventually it grows into the illusion. It is like we are babies and we know that there is no separation from the ,"Divine". You don't exist as Jorge, but you cannot die. So how is it you cannot die? Are you only thoughts, seeing,smelling, thinking, and that is all? Or something else?
"This too shall pass"

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Metta777
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Location: Northeast USA
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Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:41 am

No past, no future, only joy in this moment, NOW, :-)
"This too shall pass"

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Jorge786
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: Hello

Postby Jorge786 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:40 am

You don't exist as Jorge, but you cannot die. So how is it you cannot die? Are you only thoughts, seeing,smelling, thinking, and that is all? Or something else?
ok ... something else ... What could it be? ... (I am deviating with that question?)... Consciousness?? Unfortunately I think in terms of "consciousness" as the thing that "thinks", as the "thing" wich said: you exist.
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:53 am

The ego will fight hard to keep you in illusion. If a person goes blind, does he lose the " I " ? Part of it? Are the senses the " I " ? Yes or No? Deviations are fine, but my questions need answering directly. So the " I " is consciousness? What about when a person is sleeping? Is there an " I " that is watching and says he is asleep? If your leg is cut off, do you lose part of your " I " ? If so, how do you know that? Who is knowing that? Breath deeply twice, feel it going in and coming out, is that the " I " ? Answer in detail, why it is or is not the "I" . Thank you, Warmly, Metta777
"This too shall pass"

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Jorge786
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: Hello

Postby Jorge786 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:38 am

certainly we are not our senses
words maybe not mean exactly the same in Spanish and English.
I think there is a thing called "conscience", which is the consciousness of knowing that we exist, the realization of our existence is that we talk about? or is it something else?
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Hello

Postby Metta777 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:55 pm

[quote="Jorge786"]certainly we are not our senses "=quote] Good Jorge, we are not our senses. Conscience means something else entirely. Jorge we can't relive our past, or change it, it does not exist except in our imagination. We can't live the future, because it is only our imagination, it does not exist. We can only live now. Feel your body,your breathing, how is this happening? Do you think " I must breathe"? Or is it just happening?
Is that the "I" running the body? Do you say, " I " must move my body and eat and breathe? Or does it just happen? Does life just happen? Metta
"This too shall pass"


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