Ready to see clearly

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:52 am

Hi, I'm looking for several guides that would be willing to take on a hard case....been around the spiritual block so to speak, and now just want simplicity and clarity and to lay the other baggage down...Thanks!

Scott

User avatar
Eloratea
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Eloratea » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:30 am

Hi Scott,

Why do you consider yourself to be a hard case?
Anyway, what is your self? When you say “I” what do you refer to?
Do you think simplicity and clarity are to be attained? By someone?

Please, look at your expectations from this and write them all here.
Simply and clearly as possible :) Honesty is the key for this and looking in actual direct experience, without much thinking and using words you heard or read somewhere.

Best,

User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:32 pm

Hi Eloratea,

Thank you for your response. I think I may be a hard case because I come with a lot of preconceived notions/ mental concepts of how the experience of liberation/enlightenment is to look.

When I say "I" I am referring to my everyday sense of self, a seeming continuity of some basic feeling/awareness. I have had experiences where my sense of self seems "transparent," at times. I have also had experiences of profound simplicity and clarity, but they were fleeting. I do want to attain them (but like many of my expectations around this, I feel like they may be somewhat naive or childish.)

My expectations would include a sense of deeper awareness, peace, calmness of thought, freedom, "lightness/clearness," connection to a deeper truth or reality, and a type of emotional or spiritual "healing." I also have some aspirations to be able to accomplish this and then help others do the same.

User avatar
Eloratea
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Eloratea » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:35 pm

I think I may be a hard case because I come with a lot of preconceived notions/ mental concepts of how the experience of liberation/enlightenment is to look.
It is ok if you can leave them now all. :) Actually that is necessary to proceed further.
Later you may check on those expectations and you might find some of them being fulfilled. But, it is good to know, that this is almost never as it was expected to be. Expectations are images created by thoughts which may have no connection with reality. Here we only want to see more clearly things as they already are and to see better difference between real and imagined; between directly perceived and thought about.
When I say "I" I am referring to my everyday sense of self, a seeming continuity of some basic feeling/awareness. I have had experiences where my sense of self seems "transparent," at times. I have also had experiences of profound simplicity and clarity, but they were fleeting. I do want to attain them (but like many of my expectations around this, I feel like they may be somewhat naive or childish.)
Sense of self is just a sense of aliveness or awareness, labeled with “I”. If there is belief that there is a real entity behind it is assumed to be a sense of separate self.
But sometimes mind just stops projecting imaginary “I” and there is that feeling of clarity and transparency. It could be called natural state, but it can not be attained or possessed by someone, as there is no one, just thoughts that arise in that transparency; which already is here and now.

If I say that “I” is just a thought what comes up?

Warm regards!

User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:32 pm

If I say that “I” is just a thought what comes up?

I can feel that feeling/awareness and see that "I" is just a mental label placed on it. But then very quickly I start trying to "grasp it," and the mind starts trying to "seek" or "understand" and makes a lot of noise.

User avatar
Eloratea
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Eloratea » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:58 am

I can feel that feeling/awareness and see that "I" is just a mental label placed on it. But then very quickly I start trying to "grasp it," and the mind starts trying to "seek" or "understand" and makes a lot of noise.
It is ok, there is no control of thoughts. Just expand awareness beyond thoughts and notice whatever arises.
Come to direct experience, here and now.
Is there anyone having this experience, or it is just an experience?
Is there anyone looking, or it is just looking?
Is there anyone breathing, or it is just breathing?

With best wishes.

User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:32 am

It is ok, there is no control of thoughts. Just expand awareness beyond thoughts and notice whatever arises.
Come to direct experience, here and now.
Is there anyone having this experience, or it is just an experience?
Is there anyone looking, or it is just looking?
Is there anyone breathing, or it is just breathing?


Thank you!

In a way, I am understanding that it is just that easy, I know that a lot of that is also conceptual for me, and I am having a hard time staying with the experiential nature of it. I am holding these questions in mind and trying to look at what they point to...Any other pointers would also be helpful.

User avatar
Eloratea
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Eloratea » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:41 am

Hi Scott,

Yes, it is simple. Every experience is already made of awareness and here we just point to that awareness, to that aliveness which is already here.
And thought „I“ is one of the thoughts appearing as any other thought or perception.
Though it is simple, it requires ripe mind, somewhat quietened or exhausted of all the concepts and stories and dramas.
Once mind sees that there is no „I“ entity, that there is nothing in the middle of the onion, something changes in perception, thoughts also change. It is called perceptual shift.
If you can attentively look here right now in actual experience, you can already see it.
I could just recommend to spend more time in silence, in inquiry, so that thoughts and feelings become more transparent.
And keep looking. Is there a border between inside and outside; is there a dividing line between here and there?

Warm regards.

User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:39 am

And keep looking. Is there a border between inside and outside; is there a dividing line between here and there?


Awesome....

Thank you

***Deep Bow***

User avatar
Eloratea
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Eloratea » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:22 pm

You may also let us know if and how those pointers work for you.

Warm regards.

User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:41 am

Eloratea, Thank you so much. After a week to ten days of working with this regularly, holding your pointers contemplatively, I have felt what seems like substantial shifts. The sense of "I" still persists. It seems to have receded into the distance inside....if that makes any sense, but is still there. Any more advice?

Thanks again,

Scott

User avatar
Eloratea
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Eloratea » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:45 am

Hi Scott,

tell me more about that sense of "I", how does it feel. From experience, not from too much thinking and explaining.
If it wouldn't be labeled as sense of "I", what would it be?

Warm greetings!

User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:40 am

I really am having a hard time answering, please bear with me. When looking there isn't anything there and there is a sense of freedom that arises, but the sense of I returns as soon as the thoughts start.

User avatar
Eloratea
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Eloratea » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:21 am

Hey Scott,
I understand what you mean. Look deeper. What really returns? Belief in thoughts!

It is long time conditioning, so it doesn't go away all at once. But there is always possibility to question thoughts that arise. When seen more deeply they stop triggering sensations and that specific thought pattern dissolves.
There is no separate self to come and go. Just thoughts and feelings that arise. But none of them means that there is a self. Just a belief, or remnants of it, somewhere in the mind, that shape the experience.
But the clarity of the presence and awareness is always here/now unaffected by any of the clouds.
Feel that and let the experiences unfold as they do. But question content of the thoughts.

User avatar
Valentrs
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Ready to see clearly

Postby Valentrs » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:28 am

That is true. Beliefs (thoughts/conditioning) that the thoughts are generated by an "I". More sitting with this, something is shifting, but there is also doubt that it could be so simple! Not with you or the pointing, but in "me," and the work in the past. What has taken me so long?


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests