Requesting a Guide-Almost there

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JCarol
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Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:19 pm

I have been reading threads and need a guide. Is anyone available to help me through the Gateless Gate? Joan Carol

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mag
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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby mag » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:26 am

Hi Joan! I could help you.

So just a few things before we get started:
  • I will be making questions to you and expect you to answer honestly based on your immediate experience. Stories and philosophies are nice, but not needed here :)
  • We both commit to writing at least one message per day unless otherwise informed.
  • You can leave all other materials and practices for the duration of this dialogue
Do these expectations sound like you would be able to commit to them?

When making questions to you, I will mostly look at your last reply because it's up-to-date reflection of where you are at the moment. For this reason, don't bother if I happen to ask same questions several times or ask you to do same exercises again.

I would like to know your expectations about liberation. What would change in your life?

There is nothing personal in LIFE. What is the evidence in your direct experience that you exist as a personal being, as a separate self?
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JCarol
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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:00 pm

Hi Mag! Thank you for taking me on. Ha.

Yes, I can commit.

I don't expect the illusion to change. I expect to see who I am. "My illusion" is a happy one and I know enough (but I know I don't know) to not expect a lot to change in the dream. I desire to help others and I am determined to see.

There is nothing personal in LIFE. What is the evidence in your direct experience that you exist as a personal being, as a separate self?
This is a tripping point for me. I have been reading the threads and get a sense of no personal self, but then I realize that the observer is part of the illusion as well. Is that correct? I was walking yesterday and the scenery was passing by in 3-D as if on a movie real. My awareness is that there is a looker (I am struggling to describe my experience). I type-but who types? Need help here.

Thanks a million Mag. I am in PDT-Oregon.

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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby mag » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:42 pm

... but then I realize that the observer is part of the illusion as well. Is that correct?
Yes, observer is just an identity and all identities are part of the illusion. We want to step out of all identities.

What kind of feelings and thoughts are triggered when I say:

You don't exist, and never did.
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JCarol
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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:02 am

I don’t exist and never did? I feel calm. No emotional hit. I don’t have any feelings in my body. I have repeated it over and over during different times just now and while reading some of the threads over the past several days; same thing-no physical reaction. The question popped up in my mind, “Do I really believe I don’t exist.” No answer came in response.

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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:56 am

Oh my gosh. I think I've got it. I looked and looked and can find "I" anywhere. HAAAAAA! Oh my gosh. Not the observer, not the body, not the mind, not the thought that there is a mind. No where to be found when looking for "I". HAAAAAAA! The room is here, the TV is on, the hands are typing--but no "I" anywhere. Is this it? Tingling in the body. Body feels stoned-loaded. HAAA. Body is stone-cold sober, yet eyes look out and see as if body is stoned. HAAAA! Is this it?

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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby mag » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:58 am

If Joan is not, what remains? How would you describe life without Joan? If you don't believe in "I" anymore, there will be something different in your daily experience. Experiment a bit, and report me.
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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:03 pm

Mag, yes. Thanks. After sleeping on it, I still feel like laughing my head off. I keep questioning this realization. I'll see how the day goes.

I'll report back. Thanks for being there. Blessings. JC

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JCarol
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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:44 am

Hi Mag,
(Forgive my punctuation and grammar-writing as if speaking.)

I thought I’d share just a little about who I am so that you don’t think that I am wasting your time with such a sudden experience of a shift.

Sober 22 yrs. Seeking all of my life, literally, a deep desire to know the truth from a very early age. Church when young, Seth, New Age thought and then non-dual teachings beginning in 1989. Serious seeking for the last eight years. But, to no avail. Conceptually, yes. I understood many times over. Experientially-absolutely not. Could never figure out how to SEE and understand that no “I” exists.

Last night I feel I truly realized that truth about who I am (not). Ha. I was always looking for “me” inside me. Then it hit me while reading Jamie’s story in Gateless when he was being pressed to ASK. Clinging. I will never be the same again. At that moment, I realized there is no “I” anywhere. No concept, no identity, no nothing. HAAA!
I was so shocked that I shared that I felt stoned. What I meant by that was my surroundings looked and felt electrified. This wasn’t a spiritual experience. I have had spiritual experiences (or what I thought were spiritual experiences). This was a direct, unequivocal KNOWING who I am. The seeking ended and there was a tremendous sense of relief to finally understand what the sages and many of my contemporaries have been talking about. I now know why Jeff Foster was laughing on that YouTube video. The great Cosmic Joke. We don’t exist. I had read and studied and watched videos over and over and over again for decades with people telling me this same thing-we don’t exist. Jesus and Ramana and Swartz…I understood but never GOT IT. Last night ended my search.
If Joan is not, what remains? How would you describe life without Joan? If you don't believe in "I" anymore, there will be something different in your daily experience. Experiment a bit, and report me.

So, today: I work in a locked mental health facility working with people with schizophrenia and the like. Stressful, but enjoy it very much. I get up at 4 am. I awoke today at 2 am but didn’t have any sense of the usual panic about not getting enough sleep. In fact, I turned on the TV and watched a Masterpiece Mystery that I enjoy. Started my day and didn’t feel anything different except a deep sense of calm. Not elation; not depression--just a flat feeling of calm. The day was over- the-top busyness and stress but it rolled off of me like water off a duck’s back. My mind was calm all day. No thoughts of the future or past. The usual thoughts of body identification did not hound me. A miracle of a day. Usually, I would be wiped out, stressed-out and perhaps short with the residents, crabby, and exhausted. The only thoughts today were about the fact that life just rolls on and I don't have anything to do with it. What a relief. I don't have to control or direct. I can relax and enjoy the rest of my bodily existence as a spectator. Yahoo. Finally, the brass ring.

I know there will probably be some back and forth with the "I" until a constant state of calm endures. I have read of many awakening stories and realize that there may be more to this and I am very open to being authentic and true. Please advise me as you see fit. I am so grateful to have someone to guide me. Blessings, Joan

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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby mag » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:17 am

Wonderful, Joan, really wonderful!

I don't doubt your realization of no-self, even if I would be knowing nothing about your journey of the past. So, let's proceed to the final questions:

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

Please, answer in detail. I will show your answers to other guides, and they may have further questions.
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JCarol
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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 pm

Thanks for you encouragement and validation Mag. I'll answer these questions this evening when I get home from work.

I have goosebumps of joy. Ha. Blessings, Joan

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JCarol
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Re: Requesting a Guide-Almost there

Postby JCarol » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:18 am

Hi Mag,

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? How about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

There has never been a ‘me”. There is no self. This is a fairy tale. There is no separation because nothing exists. The aliveness is all there is. This is love.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

The illusion of separate self never started and will never end because it has never existed. That is the big joke.

3) How does it feel to see this? Describe in detail.

Relief. The search is over. I feel so grateful and at peace. Fear has fallen away. Confident that every moment is perfectly perfect and I no longer have to control anything, including my dear husband. A sweetness of being. Plus, the big benefit of not having to talk Advaita talk anymore. Holy Cow Batman! What a relief.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?
Just invite them to look. Is there an “I” anywhere in your field of view? Can you control your thoughts? Do know what the next thought will be or is it just appearing? Where does a thought come from? What happens to a thought? Ask yourself, “Is the mind a thought? What is behind the thought of “I”, me, or self? Just check it out for yourself. Nothing to teach or learn. Just look. And then send them to LU.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? Was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? What exactly happened?

I had just read my guide Mag’s answer to my question about the illusion of the “observer”. He validated that the “observer” is an illusion as well. I have always been looking for freedom from “me” inside of me-my mind. I then began reading the stories in the Gateless Gate about Jamie and Shane. I got to the part in Shane’s story where Elena was pushing Shane: “Ask yourself, ask where you hang on. What is that? Please do not go into equanimity, go hot and desperate and ask. “Where the hell am I clinging?! Ask! Investigate!” I demanded to know where I was clinging. I looked up from the computer screen and a shift in perception just happened. I’ve read those at LU call it popped. That is exactly what it felt like; like someone flipped the light switch. I realized “I” did not exist. Then, I began to laugh. The surroundings felt electrified, bright and shiny. Then a big sigh of relief. The search had ended.

I know this is the beginning not the end, but the search is over.

Thank you so much for your contributions to this site. Humbled and grateful that you are there to help. Blessings, Joan

Please, answer in detail. I will show your answers to other guides, and they may have further questions.


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