Wake Me Up so I never fall asleep well

[David Finlayson]

Hi all,

I've just joined the site and wondered where to start, felt I've been courting awakening long enough so in at the deep end it is. I have lots of stories spiritual, teachers, brief periods of seeming liberation. The mind is mostly quiet now, the practices left unpracticed, but still I don't feel liberated, the body is recovering from past maltreatment, and still fatigued at time, dark emotions engulf me and I still have a sense oftentimes of my true life's work as yet not started, a sense of a great purpose to serve, to create harmony and inspire a connection to truth. My job or my identification with it appears to cause a sense of dullness and fatigue at times, but provides well for myself and my family. There is some sense of not wanting everything to fall apart, but I sense this will or won't happen regardless of any want.

I'm not sure I ought to begin quite yet, as I am away from home with work from Tuesday to Thursday next week, and may have only limited time to inquire, however there is never a right time for the timeless I guess.

Your in truth

David

[David Finlayson]

Hi all,

I've just joined the site and wondered where to start, felt I've been courting awakening long enough so in at the deep end it is. I have lots of stories spiritual, teachers, brief periods of seeming liberation. The mind is mostly quiet now, the practices left unpracticed, but still I don't feel liberated, the body is recovering from past maltreatment, and still fatigued at time, dark emotions engulf me and I still have a sense oftentimes of my true life's work as yet not started, a sense of a great purpose to serve, to create harmony and inspire a connection to truth. My job or my identification with it appears to cause a sense of dullness and fatigue at times, but provides well for myself and my family. There is some sense of not wanting everything to fall apart, but I sense this will or won't happen regardless of any want.

I'm not sure I ought to begin quite yet, as I am away from home with work from Tuesday to Thursday next week, and may have only limited time to inquire, however there is never a right time for the timeless I guess.

BACK NOW READY TO GO!

Your in truth

David

[Eloratea]

Hi David,

let's start with your expectations from this.
This is simple and in most cases not what you expect it to be.
Yet this inquiry requires absolute honesty, focus and commitment.

If ready, after getting clear with your expectations, let's see what do you refer to when you use word "I"?

Best regards.

[David Finlayson]

Hi Eloratea,

Thanks for picking up my post

Expectations

Interesting, when I look for the expectations most immediately disappear or dissapate, seen to be false. Lets see, what came up hung around - freedom, release from suffering or worry or stress, unbounded health & vitality, clarity, peace, an ease or lack of tension throughout the body and mind, clear knowing of what is the right action in each moment, deep intuition, sense of oneness or wholeness and connection. Not much then. Oh and joy and happiness. Service to all. And fun

I see that these may or may not be fulfilled not as a constant experience anyway. I have some desires in there.

I see that I want this more that anything and that life is naturally free of identification, I believe if I could get myself (or the I) ought of the way, that life flows carries me at all times in perfection.

Use of the word "I"

I use it in describing actions, feelings, thoughts, wants, declaring ownership, opinions, my work or profession also finer perceptions. I can see I am identified with myself and my life story, particularly where it causes pain or it is not as "I" may have wanted it to have gone.I know intellectually and sense more deeply that this is false but still the pattern perpetuates. I have seen through all this, yet continue to get sucked in or give my attention to subjects matter, thoughts, feeling, losing the awareness of the awareness.

I have also had periods where that identification has not been present and have felt carried in the flow of life without the operation of that identification.

How to stop being caught in the false?

Kind regards,

David

[Eloratea]

Hi David and thank you for the answer.

I have to ask you to leave all your expectations here as we don't need them at all for this.
Some of them may come true, some not. You can check on them later if you will wish so.
This isn't a magic that will fix your life story, but there will be a new perspective on it.

I believe if I could get myself (or the I) ought of the way, that life flows carries me at all times in perfection.

There is already no you at all, just the life flow.
But there is belief in this „I“ thought that creates an imaginary gap between you and life.
Can you point to that „I“ or to the border between you and life? Is there someone looking through your eyes or it is just looking?

I use it in describing actions, feelings, thoughts, wants, declaring ownership, opinions, my work or profession also finer perceptions. I can see I am identified with myself and my life story, particularly where it causes pain or it is not as "I" may have wanted it to have gone.I know intellectually and sense more deeply that this is false but still the pattern perpetuates. I have seen through all this, yet continue to get sucked in or give my attention to subjects matter, thoughts, feeling, losing the awareness of the awareness.

Here right now, what is your direct experience? Is there you?

I have also had periods where that identification has not been present and have felt carried in the flow of life without the operation of that identification.

How to stop being caught in the false?

Just realise there is no one to be caught. Only thoughts about being caught or not. After the experience; pure experience without experiencer.

All the best.

[David Finlayson]

Hi Eleanor.

Thank you for your reply.

I have to ask you to leave all your expectations here as we don't need them at all for this.
Some of them may come true, some not. You can check on them later if you will wish so.
This isn't a magic that will fix your life story, but there will be a new perspective on it.

[/color]

Yes I see this, still some hankering there for a magic fix perhaps, yes I can see this is of no use all based on an imaginery I.

I believe if I could get myself (or the I) ought of the way, that life flows carries me at all times in perfection.

There is already no you at all, just the life flow.
But there is belief in this „I“ thought that creates an imaginary gap between you and life.
Can you point to that „I“ or to the border between you and life? Is there someone looking through your eyes or it is just looking?

I can see borders I have made however they are imaginery, constructed out of concern for this I, the face holds tension, perhaps the mask of that I, it feels like a hook though the jaw pulling down and to the side (not painful however). There is some rest and sense of deepening.

When looking for it, I cannot find the I. It is a story I tell, a claim made. I am looking, or there is a looking, in the moment there is not a someone. I comes in and says I cannot believe I didn't exist. I am this seeing only, or there is seeing, the mind is coming up with objections, the eyes close.

I use it in describing actions, feelings, thoughts, wants, declaring ownership, opinions, my work or profession also finer perceptions. I can see I am identified with myself and my life story, particularly where it causes pain or it is not as "I" may have wanted it to have gone.I know intellectually and sense more deeply that this is false but still the pattern perpetuates. I have seen through all this, yet continue to get sucked in or give my attention to subjects matter, thoughts, feeling, losing the awareness of the awareness.

Here right now, what is your direct experience? Is there you?

There is a sense of a me, that is is my body here typing, however it is just a body sitting here typing, the identification continually reasserts itself, there is a feeling of a fine flow of energy, a high pitched sound, I remember being aware of this as a small child. the eyes close again, the thought that I ought not to be doing this now, in my office at work. its OK though.

I have also had periods where that identification has not been present and have felt carried in the flow of life without the operation of that identification.

How to stop being caught in the false?

Just realise there is no one to be caught. Only thoughts about being caught or not. After the experience; pure experience without experiencer.

Yes,it is glimpsed but fleeting as subtle identification with the body, the thoughts or feelings appear to corrupt. I am a nobody, it seems there is resistance to this, but not much. There is no body home, no one here, there is a sense of not letting this fully in. Circling the rim.

There is a sense of something energetic happening in the body. The identification with the I is persistent.

I was going to say I will continue to look, but it is seen in that instant that there is no I looking, then I start thinking about it. How to remain in this fully? Maybe its not being fully seen.

Thank you

David

[Eloratea]

I can see borders I have made however they are imaginary, constructed out of concern for this I, the face holds tension, perhaps the mask of that I, it feels like a hook though the jaw pulling down and to the side (not painful however). There is some rest and sense of deepening.

Have you made that border or it is made by thought about separate self, „I“ arising?

When looking for it, I cannot find the I. It is a story I tell, a claim made. I am looking, or there is a looking, in the moment there is not a someone.

Look: is there anyone telling the story, or the story goes by itself?

I comes in and says I cannot believe I didn't exist. I am this seeing only, or there is seeing, the mind is coming up with objections, the eyes close.

They are all just thoughts. Coming from the learned patterns of thinking and believing. Just see them as they are.

There is a sense of a me, that is is my body here typing, however it is just a body sitting here typing, the identification continually reasserts itself, there is a feeling of a fine flow of energy, a high pitched sound, I remember being aware of this as a small child. the eyes close again, the thought that I ought not to be doing this now, in my office at work. its OK though.

Can you see how thoughts just label pure experience? And „me“ is one of them?
What is sense of "me" if not labeled that way; If it is just sens of being-ness, aliveness, awareness?

Just realise there is no one to be caught. Only thoughts about being caught or not. After the experience; pure experience without experiencer.
Yes,it is glimpsed but fleeting as subtle identification with the body, the thoughts or feelings appear to corrupt. I am a nobody, it seems there is resistance to this, but not much. There is no body home, no one here, there is a sense of not letting this fully in. Circling the rim.
There is a sense of something energetic happening in the body. The identification with the I is persistent.

Feel whatever arises, it is ok. Just see how thoughts make impersonal experience personal.
Expand the attention whenever possible from just thoughts to the whole experience; sensations, feelings. Open it all around :)

I was going to say I will continue to look, but it is seen in that instant that there is no I looking, then I start thinking about it. How to remain in this fully? Maybe its not being fully seen.

Who wants to remain fully in what? Keep looking.

Warm regards.

[David Finlayson]

I can see borders I have made however they are imaginary, constructed out of concern for this I, the face holds tension, perhaps the mask of that I, it feels like a hook though the jaw pulling down and to the side (not painful however). There is some rest and sense of deepening.

Have you made that border or it is made by thought about separate self, „I“ arising?

I have made a border through thinking, that "I" itself being made of thoughts about a separate self, ah yes the border and the I construct itself stem from or are made from thought about a separate self. There being no me to make a border.

When looking for it, I cannot find the I. It is a story I tell, a claim made. I am looking, or there is a looking, in the moment there is not a someone.

Look: is there anyone telling the story, or the story goes by itself?

Again "I" had thought "I" was telling the story, but the story and the I thought are not separate, or the stories are of no consequence without a belief in the "I". The story goes on by itself, and is perpetuated by the "I", otherwise it fades into grey, as it is no longer given life or re-birthed through the "I" thought.

I comes in and says I cannot believe I didn't exist. I am this seeing only, or there is seeing, the mind is coming up with objections, the eyes close.

They are all just thoughts. Coming from the learned patterns of thinking and believing. Just see them as they are.

Yes, there is some awareness of energy or fear around the solar plexus and throat area, thought of various sorts, seeming to stem from the belief in an I or a me.

There is a sense of a me, that is is my body here typing, however it is just a body sitting here typing, the identification continually reasserts itself, there is a feeling of a fine flow of energy, a high pitched sound, I remember being aware of this as a small child. the eyes close again, the thought that I ought not to be doing this now, in my office at work. its OK though.

Can you see how thoughts just label pure experience? And „me“ is one of them?

Yes. I can also see that the me wants to get this, which creates tension and a seeming separation from pure experience

What is sense of "me" if not labeled that way; If it is just sens of being-ness, aliveness, awareness?

That would be free, there is not that sense here at the moment, there is tiredness and identification, there is awareness of it, but seeming ownership of it as a me not getting this.

Just realise there is no one to be caught. Only thoughts about being caught or not. After the experience; pure experience without experiencer.
Yes,it is glimpsed but fleeting as subtle identification with the body, the thoughts or feelings appear to corrupt. I am a nobody, it seems there is resistance to this, but not much. There is no body home, no one here, there is a sense of not letting this fully in. Circling the rim.
There is a sense of something energetic happening in the body. The identification with the I is persistent.

Feel whatever arises, it is ok. Just see how thoughts make impersonal experience personal.
Expand the attention whenever possible from just thoughts to the whole experience; sensations, feelings. Open it all around :)

Yes, there is tiredness, and vibrancy at the same time

I was going to say I will continue to look, but it is seen in that instant that there is no I looking, then I start thinking about it. How to remain in this fully? Maybe its not being fully seen.

Who wants to remain fully in what? Keep looking.

It can only be the imaginery me, I am that awareness,

Many thanks

Warm regards.

[Eloratea]

That would be free, there is not that sense here at the moment, there is tiredness and identification, there is awareness of it, but seeming ownership of it as a me not getting this.

Relax. It is already here. Get more in touch with direct experience; Sensations, feelings. Go in nature. Notice whatever arises in experience. Is there „you“ in equation except in thoughts?

That would be free, there is not that sense here at the moment, there is tiredness and identification, there is awareness of it, but seeming ownership of it as a me not getting this.

Look that tiredness where it is? Isn't it also just part of this experience? Feel it. Stop labeling it, just feel the sensations.

And what is ownership? Watch how it comes into being. What makes any thing, thought or feeling being „yours“?

With Love.

[David Finlayson]

That would be free, there is not that sense here at the moment, there is tiredness and identification, there is awareness of it, but seeming ownership of it as a me not getting this.

Relax. It is already here. Get more in touch with direct experience; Sensations, feelings. Go in nature. Notice whatever arises in experience. Is there „you“ in equation except in thoughts?

There is no you or me, I have to spend time in thought for work or so it seems and appear to lose touch with direct experience, or run over them, there is no me except in thoughts.

That would be free, there is not that sense here at the moment, there is tiredness and identification, there is awareness of it, but seeming ownership of it as a me not getting this.

Look that tiredness where it is? Isn't it also just part of this experience? Feel it. Stop labeling it, just feel the sensations.

It is felt it when I turn awareness to sensation, being lost in thought and the belief there is an I doing all this is tiring.

And what is ownership? Watch how it comes into being. What makes any thing, thought or feeling being "yours"?

Again it is only arising through I or me thoughts, that is mine or I believe I am an I. There is an I thought wondering if that imaginery I is making progress/ getting this right and some doubt that it might not be, lol how rediculous.

Love,

David

[Eloratea]

Hi David,

There is no you or me, I have to spend time in thought for work or so it seems and appear to lose touch with direct experience, or run over them, there is no me except in thoughts.

Thoughts are also useful. It is necessary to use them for the work. Just see when they are not necessary, not useful.
See when they come interpreting experience and making concepts which are soon believed to be true. Than we naturally look for the liberation from those concepts.

It is felt it when I turn awareness to sensation, being lost in thought and the belief there is an I doing all this is tiring.

Do you have control over actions or thoughts? Or they arise and thought about you doing it come later?

Again it is only arising through I or me thoughts, that is mine or I believe I am an I. There is an I thought wondering if that imaginery I is making progress/ getting this right and some doubt that it might not be, lol how rediculous.

Yes, it is a bit paradoxical. Just take your time to notice the experience. Have some quite time.
What is David?

Love.

[David Finlayson]

Hi David,

There is no you or me, I have to spend time in thought for work or so it seems and appear to lose touch with direct experience, or run over them, there is no me except in thoughts.

Thoughts are also useful. It is necessary to use them for the work. Just see when they are not necessary, not useful.
See when they come interpreting experience and making concepts which are soon believed to be true. Than we naturally look for the liberation from those concepts.

Often the thoughts are not useful, coming from fear they run largely as a comfort blanket, justifying, explaining, excusing, over preparing for that which needs no further preparation. Better not to form the concepts in the first place, and yes liberation from concepts once they are formed.

It is felt it when I turn awareness to sensation, being lost in thought and the belief there is an I doing all this is tiring.

Do you have control over actions or thoughts? Or they arise and thought about you doing it come later?

Yes, actions arise, thought about the action can arise before or after the action, and are rarely if ever of any use, the decision to act seems to be made or the action occurs, irrespective of the thoughts. There is no control over either.

Again it is only arising through I or me thoughts, that is mine or I believe I am an I. There is an I thought wondering if that imaginery I is making progress/ getting this right and some doubt that it might not be, lol how rediculous.

Yes, it is a bit paradoxical. Just take your time to notice the experience. Have some quite time.

Yes quiet time, this weekend, or now, only now

What is David?

David is not real, stories proliferate, ideas of who or what I am, a reference point in space where this being/ seeing seems to be located. Much of the beliefs previously held are gone or falling away, but the identification with the I remains, to a degree. David is another label for the imaginery I. But it could also be a calling home, the beloved beyond all concepts and identification.

Love.

Love is what is here when the identification dissolves


Love


David

[Eloratea]

Hey David,

Could you please quote only the text from previous post, it will be easier to read :)

David is not real, stories proliferate, ideas of who or what I am, a reference point in space where this being/ seeing seems to be located. Much of the beliefs previously held are gone or falling away, but the identification with the I remains, to a degree. David is another label for the imaginery I. But it could also be a calling home, the beloved beyond all concepts and identification.

David is a name for the character in this life story. And that is fine. It is label for the particular body-mind. (We don't get here into reality of body-mind as solid separate object…,just take it as it is usually perceived)
But it is not you. You is just a thought, label appearing in this awareness, in this experience beyond words. Can you see that?
Can you see the difference between direct experience and thoughts? How clear is that?

Could you describe your actual experience here, right now?
What is relation between you and this experience?

Love is what is here when the identification dissolves

It is always here, but it kind of becomes more clearly visible when identification dissolves...

Love.

[David Finlayson]

Hi Eloratea

Could you please quote only the text from previous post, it will be easier to read :) - Okay dockey


David is a name for the character in this life story. And that is fine. It is label for the particular body-mind. (We don't get here into reality of body-mind as solid separate object…,just take it as it is usually perceived)
But it is not you. You is just a thought, label appearing in this awareness, in this experience beyond words. Can you see that?

Yes.

Can you see the difference between direct experience and thoughts? How clear is that?

The difference between Direct experience and thoughts, when there is an awareness is clear, what becomes less clear is subtle feeling tones that can seem part of a me as they are closely identified with, its a me feeling this way for example. At times there is a heaviness to experience, a dying off of past attachment and identification, old emotional pain surfacing to be truly seen, not making it about a me experiencing or going through it and just cleanly seeing it without any sense of suffering is what is the sense just now.

Could you describe your actual experience here, right now?

As above, this feeling of being down or low, manifesting as a weightedness in the chest or heart, and a fuzzy energy in the head.

What is relation between you and this experience?

The experience is as it is. However the me feels that it is experiencing it, telling a story about where it may have come from, what it may be about, but just bringing the attention back to the felt sense without any story or ownership. There is sadness, maybe some suppressed anger, although not sure as that always was supressed. The experience is pure.

Love is what is here when the identification dissolves

It is always here, but it kind of becomes more clearly visible when identification dissolves...

Yes, the identification comes and goes, love is always there yes, the awareness of it appears to come and go.

Love.[/quote]

Many thanks,

David

[Eloratea]

The experience is as it is. However the me feels that it is experiencing it,

You are not „looking“ here in direct experience. If „me“ is just a thought, how can thought feel?
It can't. It is still just another thought: me is feeling…
Story is going on it its own. Just notice. There are sensations and there are thoughts about sensation.
Is there anything outside of the experience having it?
Is there inside and outside of the experience?

With Love.