TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

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Jenny
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TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:17 pm

HI, I AM JENNY ORTUÑO FROM COSTA RICA.

I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING ALL MY LIFE, I WAS BORN WITH KRISHMANURTI'S BOOKS AND IN CONTACT WITH ADVAITA SINCE 2000.

I KNOW AT A LEVEL THE PERSONAL ME DOES NOT EXIST. I HAVE INVESTIGATED ALREADY. BUT I DO NOT FEEL THIS REALIZATION OR SEEING IS DEEP ENOUGH. I STILL IDENTIFY A LOT WITH THE ME AND SOMETIMES CAN CAUSE SUFFERING SPECIALLY WHEN JUDGING MYSELF OR WHEN FEAR ARISES.

THE IDEA OF SEARCHING I DO NOT EVEN TOUCH IT. I KNOW ALREADY IT MAKES NO SENSE. BUT IF FOR SOME REASON I GIVE IT CREDIBILITY, THE DESPERATION I FEEL IS VERY INTENSE.

I REALLY WOULD LIKE HELP TO INVESTIGATE THIS MORE DEEPLY UNTIL I HAVE A DEEPER REALIZATION OF THE TRUTH.

I DO FEEL READY. I AM VERY TIRED OF THE ILUSION. THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT IN MY LIFE.

THANKS,

JENNY

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Ilona
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Ilona » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:07 am

Hi Jenny

I see you made it to the forum :) welcome here.
Can you switch of the capitals on your keyboard, it makes the text difficult to read.

Ok, so you say that you know that personal me does not exist. Good, so what does this word me point to?
What is the I in your sentences?

See, you either see it or you don't, you can't half see it, same like you can't be a little bit pregnant.
What do you expect from this seeing? Write it all down, please, with whole sincerity.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Jenny
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:00 am

Hi Ilona:

Thanks for answering.
I am going to be as honest and clear as I can.
What do I see? I see that the I is a just a thought. If I look for the I, cannot find it. It is a thought that is constantly forming itself associated with different stimuli.I also see a pleasure and of course a pain in believing there is a real me there. I see there is an attachment to that and there is probably a fear of being absolutely nothing.
I also see a lot of identification happening with the me. I also see a great non conformity with that. If at a level a know there is no me, so why is there so much identification? This makes me think I am not seeing deeply enough and I am asking guide in this true seeing.
When an identification occurs what I do is just feel the sensation in he body and then something opens up, but
I really want to see....
and what do I expect? I guess I expect not to identify so much if there is a true seeing.I expect to see more the identification as an identification (with more distance) when an identification occurs.
I have seen at a level but I need to see deeper and I am willing whatever it takes.
I appreciate very much you guide in this.
Love,
Jenny

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Ilona
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:01 am

Thank you for answer.
All identity is assumed. Identification happens and it sticks because there is a belief that there is something for that identification to stick to- me.

There is nothing behind word me. It is a thought, a word that is used in comunication.

Tell me, is there a difference between how these words feel:
I, me, self, Jenny, table, unicorn?

Which words point to something real?
How do you know?

If we say- it rains, does it mean that it is doing the raining?
I we say- I breathe, does it mean that I is doing the breathing?
If we say- it hurts me, does it mean that it is doing hurting to a me?

Write what you see here as you see.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Jenny
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:07 pm

Thanks for your quick answer. I am really into this. i want very much to see deeper.
the words I, me, self, jenny, table and unicorn do feel different. the words I, me, self and Jenny are associated to a bundle of emotions. the others aren't. these is the difference. which words point to something real? All of them are just concepts. the words table and unicorn are ideas about a material form (that seems to us material) the rest of the words are concepts referring to another concept. So they are really ideas about ideas. (this is good to see) I see a bundle of ideas. a matrix of ideas. so the me seems to be a bundle of ideas.
I see the raining is happening, and I have seen at times that the movement in this body is just happening and there is nobody doing it but most of the time I am assuming there is a me doing it. I guess its this: an assumption. I will spend the whole day today (its 6 am here) just watching this assumption. How is the conclusion that there is a me moving this body happens? Is there a me moving this body? Is there a belief assumed and not seen?
Thanks so much,
Jenny

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Ilona
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:45 pm

It is very interesting that you put table and unicorn in the same category- something pointing to material form.
Is it?
Is there a real unicorn or only in imagination?
How about Santa?
How about computer screen?
How about this me?

Can you see a difference here?
I say real is that which can be experienced through senses and does not dissapear if you stop believing on it.

When I say: look for batman in your room, do you even turn your head? Why?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Jenny
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 pm

Yes, it is weird about the unicorn, but i of course see that difference between a unicorn, a santa, a batman, a me to a table, a chair and a bed. the thing is we also relate to the chiar, the table and to the bed trough concepts about it.
yesterday I went to work with the intention to look who moves the body. is there someone moving it? and the thing that came later on is that there is a huge part who does not want to see.... because if it does it will know there is nothing here.
once a had a seeing of reality. and what I saw was the energy that is here in which all happens and I also saw the material form and the me and its story was absolutely absent without existing. it was very shocking. at the same time it was beautiful and scary in the sense that there was absolutely nothing there( in relation to the me) After that I understood perfectly well why it is so difficulty to see the truth, just because there is a supposed pleasure in thinking you are somebody and in being very busy solving problems and even suffering.
so, yesterday, after seeing this, I have been questioning myself if i want to let go of the the me. there is a part that wants very deeply and there is another part stopping it, doing all it can to distract, confuse and escape from this. Because yesterday i also had the impression that when you totally want to see, seeing the truth is very simple. it is actually very obvious.
so, i have also been asking who is moving the body? It is interesting that it seems that there is an idea that says I have to go to the kitchen and then the body moves to the kitchen. But.....who is producing the idea itself? Is seems its just happening. the idea its just happening and it seems that the idea of a me its just happening also.
it is all just happening.......
love and many thanks,
Jenny

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Ilona
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Ilona » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:57 am

dear jenny,

i see you taking steps and getting closer.
in this post there is an exercise, do it and tell me what you have learned from it. http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html


sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Jenny
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:12 pm

Dear Ilona:
Yesterday I continue seeing not only if I am really wanting to die (I know the death refers only to the belief of an ilussion because there is nobody here to die) but also how much my life has been on looking for peace, and being well, and not suffering. so how much have I wanted really just to know the truth? that is a question I made to myself yesterday. and of course I see everything: a desire for truth, a desire not to suffer and a compensation on being someone. the wanting a compensation is of someone who has suffered.
the exercise this morning was very interesting, I am going to described all I say with it.
1- in the first part, mentioning the I and the me, naturally was a beautiful meditation with open eyes. the attention was on was happening. this naturally made the mind silent. the i and the me did not matter. the i and the me naturally began to be less used. on one moment the cat bit my hand the then there was a desire to use the me. so, i saw that when there was more identification there was a greater desire to use the me.
2 the second part of the exercise, without using the i and the me was more interesting! it began well, but a threat began to be experienced in the body, a pressure. the more pressure in the body, the more thoughts and stories wanted to come! the threat and the pressure were about really experiencing there is no one here, and so it seemed the illusion began feeling threatened and began to invent things. Looking back, this has been for me the story of this year. Last year the ego was seriously questioned and this year the mind has seemed to invent interesting projects to distract me and call for an identification.
So, where I am with all this? I am here, watching the mind wanting to survive as an identity the more the intention to know the truth grows. Also, the exercise made me remember the beauty of just being the watcher, the watcher that can be in complete stillness.
thanks very much for answering every day and sticking up with me.

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Ilona
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Ilona » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:13 pm

Good work. It is interesting to see how mind starts to protect the images. Now it likes the image of watcher.

There is no watcher.
There is no observer, there is no witness.

There is no subject doing action of watching.

See if you notice if there is a gap between watcher, watching and the watched.

Getting close.. :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Jenny
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:43 pm

yes, there is no gap between the watcher, the watching and the watched. It is just is.
I am looking at if there is a watcher or not. There is no identity watching. There is just watching happening. So, if there is a subject, there would be just a subject without an object. It is a wonderful being "being".
Is is beautiful. right now I have no more words.
thanks Ilona.

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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Ilona » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:17 pm

very nice.

can you describe how your day is going? what do you notice doing normal tasks, what is the mood, what have you learned, how does it feel?

please write what you see in direct experience.

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Jenny
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:47 am

I actually would like to observe more days. because in the past experience it could vary. For example I would be very content some days, with a lot of joy and awareness and then something hapenned and I would identify with something quite intensively.
today in the morning I was meditating on something the course of miracles calls authorship. so simple: the idea of a me thinking he is the one doing, when it is just life manifesting. It is pretending to be the author of what is not,
This was my experience this morning.
Yesterday I was very conscious at times and concentrated at other times in what I was doing, When there is concentration there is less awareness of awareness. ( And this is a question I have: can one be concentrated and aware at the same time?) Continuing with yesterday. at some moments when I was seeing people I would just see them as a manifestation of life. At some moments I am watching my thoughts and feelings ans seeing them as a manifestation of life. I so not remember having intense reactions yesterday.
Let me look very carefully for some days and I will report. What do you think?

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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Ilona » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:09 pm

Thanks for answer Jenny.

This recognition is not about a state. States come and go, recognition is permanent, it does not come and go, what is seen once can be seen in different situations, in different states, what is true is true from every angle.

Going in and out of experiences is part of the movement.
Going in and out of story is also part of the movement and part of the story. It's like if you watch a film and get sucked into the story. You can always step back and know that it's a movie, zoom in and out.

When we get lost in activity, all there is is that activity. Feeling and experiencing it fully, is part of the movement.
It's not about changing how life flows but recognising that there is no mover.

Please write every day, writing helps to focus and clarify the mind.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Jenny
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Re: TRUTH REALIZING. WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH ILONA

Postby Jenny » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:27 pm

Hi Ilona:
Thanks so much for this dialogue.
Yes, it is very true: what is seen is seen even if one gets stuck in a story at a moment. so, this is the key of the matter. all my confusion really began out of this. Because.... I am hearing people talking about ego dissolving when the truth is seen. I have seen there is no doer. But..... when the story is believed, is there a believe in the doer? I would say yes,. When a story is believed you go into the movie and believe in the character of the story and the drama that can happen to that character. Then of course, you can step back. For me before this dialogue, this happened this way but it could take several days to get myself out of a story. Actually to get out of the story I would have to be very present in my body feeling the feelings etc. then I could see its a story and so this is really my question. this is why I began this dialogue and this is why i said I expected to have less identification.
this dialogue or investigation with you has felt very good and I appreciate it immensely, your service, your time your care. I would say I am more clear and also has seen more clearly the games the mind has been playing on a very subtle form. At the end of last year I could see searching made no sense. But what I see now is that I did not stay fully here with that truth, but started in a distraction trip just not to be fully present with that truth. In other words there was no more apparent search but there was a pretense of an escape from that truth. I began seeing this was happening and that's when I looked for this dialogue. so, it is as if searching is clearly leaving here and the mind made its way to have me leave here in another way.
Although it sounds silly (because it is impossible to leave home) now it feels like coming back home. I am very grateful.


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