Looking for guidance

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Morningsunshine
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Looking for guidance

Postby Morningsunshine » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:31 pm

Hello my name is Ali and I'm looking for some help.

I would like to experience no-self and have that state of awareness be lasting.

I have an intellectual understanding of no-self and feel that I may have had glimpses of it. There have been times when I see I am just a concept, and think I have been able to realize the place beyond thought and mind. I have felt great peace there but it only lasts for an instant. There is a desire to rest in this space but my mind doesn't want to stay there. I get pulled back into "dealing" with the physical world in front of me and believing that I am a "me" out of habit (it seems?) and believing I am separate from everything. I think there is fear around the lasting realization of no-self and a belief that it's not compatible in my world (I'm a wife and a mom of a one year old child. How will I function with no self?) But I want to see the truth. I feel like this realization is on the tip of my nose but I cannot see it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance:)
Ali

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:16 pm

Good morning sunshine!

First I do have one rule...When I ask questions that you answer (When Ready.) them with complete honesty, and what you feel is 100% True and Concise. 

Please take time daily to perform "The Work" and LOOK introspectively...This in essence is a dysfunction of how one processes thought. What we are doing is challenging and triggering the thought process and shedding light on what truly is behind these thoughts...

One last thing I need to ask, is whatever spiritual practices, beliefs or readings, please put them on hold until we are done. They are of NO use here. You can revisit these when we're finished...

I realize that life gets a bit hectic, If you can check in and let me know how you're doing daily, we can address where you're at on the path.

The Key here is Focus, Courage and Commitment, if not this will take far longer than it should. 

Are we Good??...Let's get Started.

So what expectations do you have from liberation ?

And what comes up when I say "There's no such Entity "Self" in real life at all??"
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Morningsunshine
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Morningsunshine » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:24 pm

Hello Cam-RT! :)
Thank you for working with me.
I agree to the things you ask of me.

You asked what I expect from liberation. I expect to see and experience the truth of who we really are. And then to live continuously in this truth instead of searching and searching and trying to get there. I would like this realization to be a permanent. There may be still more work to do with the ego, but I would know the truth and live and approach all things from this space. As far as feelings go, I would like to feel connected to everything and see no separation. I think this would feel like home. I expect that my ego would take a back seat and not have as much power, as a result I would be free to be more loving and compassionate instead of closed down and fearful. Thinking less, and just living, being.

When you say there is no entity "self" in real life at all - I'm having a hard time with this one. Could you ask this in a slightly different way so I know what you mean? I see that beyond all things there is a field of Nothing, silence, peace. Is that what you mean by real life? Or do you just mean that the "self" is just a false idea created by the mind? I guess I'd like to see what you mean by "real life" so I know how to answer.

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:24 am

Good Evening Ali...
Just wanted to answer your first post with the sunshine remark cause it sounded so beautiful!! ;^)

Anyway...
I expect to see and experience the truth of who we really are. And then to live continuously in this truth instead of searching and searching and trying to get there. I would like this realization to be a permanent.
Very good Response! The two main aspects from the start is desire and No "earth shaking/Sky opening" expectations...The reason being that no two people are the same when "IT" hits. Some are subtle and some are OMG!!..."Once it's seen it can't be unseen" AND "after care" is important once you're through because, as time go's by this "Gift" will deepen and broaden depending on what you choose to do with it...
There may be still more work to do with the ego,
I prefer to view thoughts and Ego as one, Yet the ego go's a bit deeper that thought, because it's more like a "survival instinct", It's hard coded in our DNA just like animals...Have you ever stood on the edge of a cliff or done something death defying and you've felt that "RUSH" that's a pretty good example of how ego's in the background try to keep the body from harm...yet there are the "social aspects" that...Well, I hope you catch my drift here ;^)
I think this would feel like home. I expect that my ego would take a back seat and not have as much power,
Thinking less,
It's the mind's job is think We're not after shutting down thought or Ego...Just seeing "The Truth" is where we get you through "The Gate"... A by-product of liberation is getting perspective and clarity that leads to this in time I assure you...
When you say there is no entity "self" in real life at all - I'm having a hard time with this one. Could you ask this in a slightly different way so I know what you mean?
In asking this question I was attempting to see your physical response in the loosing of "you" some react with fear and even a physical uneasiness when challenged in this way; Depending on how strongly they're attached to these thoughts...
I see that beyond all things there is a field of Nothing, silence, peace.
Wow! you surprised me with this response...I was going to address this in my next post. BUT I'll go ahead and address this now!

In essence what we are dealing with here, is a dysfunction of the thought process that in fact creates what appears to be a separate being ( A thought.) that points toward ownership/identity that in reality doesn't exist...

Let me explain how this occurs right now. ( The UN-liberated state.)


The mind in addition to being and incredible processing and storage device also
is a labeling machine that lables experience as soon as perception happens...

Here's is an example...

Thought triggers feeling, feeling gets labeled--->New trigger--->Feeling gets
more intense--->more labels--->Vicious feedback loop...

This goes on endlessly as long as this mental dysfunction persists...(The Self)

Try finding some negative or insecure thoughts...The more intense the better for this exercise... Feel how the body responds when these thoughts arise?<-----You can use the body as a tool to trace back thoughts that are associated to "The self"...Remember the body doesn't lie. This reflex is the same if someone was to slap or punch you and the body automatically reacts to protect itself...TRY IT!! get the feel of that sensation. This to will help guide you.

Now when you bring up these thoughts what's behind them?... What's in control?
Okay now look at your answer....
I see that beyond all things there is a field of Nothing, silence, peace.
Does this make sense now?....Do you have any questions before we move on from here??
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Morningsunshine
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Morningsunshine » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:33 pm

Hello CamRT,
Thank you so much for your response!

I tried the negative thought exercise you suggested. I felt a lot of tight energy in my belly and face. I traced the thought through to the original idea or sense of not being enough or "less than" others. The original idea was that "I am not enough". Then I asked it "who is not enough?" and there wasn't anything there. The whole thing disappeared and there was just clear space. Very interesting. I know I've been carrying around this idea for the majority of my life and it was just made of smoke. When I looked it in the face it disappeared into thin air.

I also thought a lot about what you said about thoughts or self wanting to claim ownership over things. I practiced experiencing sounds like our air conditioner and tried to withhold this self coming in and claiming ownership of the sound happening. Doing this I realized that it's really a habit of my mind to immediately label sensory experiences with a badge of "I" "me" and "mine" when these things are just happening in the environment. Why do they have anything to do with "me"? I feel excited by this. It seems like I saw part of the lie.

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:01 pm

Good Afternoon Ali...
Hope you're having a good weekend :^)
I felt a lot of tight energy in my belly and face. I traced the thought through to the original idea or sense of not being enough or "less than" others. The original idea was that "I am not enough". Then I asked it "who is not enough?" and there wasn't anything there.
Very Good!!...I've got one more exercise to help further see how the body reacts to thought, later in this post...
The whole thing disappeared and there was just clear space. Very interesting. I know I've been carrying around this idea for the majority of my life and it was just made of smoke. When I looked it in the face it disappeared into thin air.
Excellent!!...These thoughts just come and go like clouds in the sky! Some Clouds are big and Ominous and others are little (kinda like chatter)....Your mind is the sky (infinite), the rest is just the weather ;^)
I have a friend that likened "The Work" as hiking up the side of a valley that's full of clouds, and as you climb higher and higher eventually you begin to see clearer and clearer as you go. (seeing and putting in perspective the thought's that one see's as a "self" behind them...)
I feel excited by this. It seems like I saw part of the lie.
Yup!! I had a client that described this like "peeling" the rubber bands off of a rubber band ball, one after another until "nothing" is left...

Okay, please take about twenty minutes or so and try and pay paticular attention to how the body reacts as you perform this excercise...

First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..

Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.

Again watch what is happening in the body.

Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Your body knows. I is a label, not experiencer. Not a thinker, not a doer, not a hearer of rain. I is not what makes eyes blink and it is not a breather, it's a word, that is used for convenience of communication. If it's believed to be an entity, the mind is confused, the body is tensed up. Unconfusing it is simple- bring attention back to now and look once again- is there a me behind the word 'me'?

Life is happening. Looking is happening. Getting lost in the story is happening. With or without label I.

What is not on automatic?
And do we really need to be enslaved by labels? After all, experience is what labels point TO.

Look. Don't think, just look.
The body is the slave to the mind...
You are literally the imagination of yourself!! ;^)
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Morningsunshine
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Morningsunshine » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:58 am

Hello CamRt,

I actually did the exercise you suggested and had it all typed out with comments but then for some reason the message got lost and didn't go through :( oh well. No problem! I will tell you what I realized though.

In doing the excerise I saw that by labeling everything with an "I" that it removed me from the experience that was happening. It deadened the experience somehow. It made me feel removed and disconnected from what "I" was supposedly involved in!
The second part of the exercise made me feel more involved and more alive! Everything else felt and seemed very alive too... vibrant like I was seeing everything for the first time. I felt a clarity and as though there was no confusion or effort involved or needed at all from me or anyone.

So life is happening and flowing and doesn't need this outside party to come in and claim ownership over the experience when it does nothing and is nothing. Life is happening without an "I" thought. The I thought is totally unnecessary! It feels really good to see this.

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:56 am

Good evening Ali...
So life is happening and flowing and doesn't need this outside party to come in and claim ownership over the experience when it does nothing and is nothing. Life is happening without an "I" thought. The I thought is totally unnecessary! It feels really good to see this.
Pretty cool huh!...The body literally snitches off these thoughts that point to "Nothing"!
So try to keep this in the back of your mind each day... I still do... From Time to time I'll catch that" twinge" and stop and take a double take on the tightness and trace it back....Every time it's the same, and I'll get a little chuckle and shake my head. ;^)

Outside of a thought, belief, or memory, where or what is Ali??
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Morningsunshine
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Morningsunshine » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:35 pm

When I ask myself that question I can honestly say that I don't know where, or what Ali is, outside of a thought, memory or belief. What is Ali? There is nothing there.
But...now I hear my mind start to argue. My mind says even though I'm not a thought belief or memory I must be a conglomeration of all these things ...plus this unique body in space and time...I'm a woman with unique physical characteristics, I was born on a specific day and time...and even though others may share similar attributes, they may not have my unique combination of attributes that create this "Ali". This is how I refer to myself in the social world and how people locate me in the social world. Are these just beliefs?
Ugh! My first response felt so simple pure and clear. When I started to analyze it, confusion and frustration set in. I don't know what Ali is, but my mind keeps saying I must be somewhere!

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:41 pm

Good Afternoon, Ali...
When I ask myself that question I can honestly say that I don't know where, or what Ali is, outside of a thought, memory or belief. What is Ali? There is nothing there.
Yup! Society has created and passed this down to us from when we being to communicate as children...It's tough being a grandfather and seeing the children go from just awareness and wonder to "me" and "mine". But that's just how society is! :^(
But...now I hear my mind start to argue. My mind says even though I'm not a thought belief or memory I must be a conglomeration of all these things ...
Yup! That's "The Self" trying to gain some traction by calling in all these thoughts to keep you at bay...
Here's a quote to put things in perspective...

"Thoughts/demons are empty projections of "The Self"...Their objective is to "occupy" us NOT to defeat us"
plus this unique body in space and time...I'm a woman with unique physical characteristics, I was born on a specific day and time...and even though others may share similar attributes, they may not have my unique combination of attributes that create this "Ali".
"YOU" are NONE of these....
You've seen the "nothing "but have you "gone into it" ?? TRY IT! <------This is "THE REAL YOU"...Pure, formless, Energy...Emanating from within.

Your body given at conception houses and supports the "being" within. One day your "time" will come and you will return to the nothing that you were born from...
This is how I refer to myself in the social world and how people locate me in the social world. Are these just beliefs?
Ahhh...Beliefs! This quote from Jed Mckenna was very powerful in helping to combat "beliefs"...

"Everything we know, no matter how sure we are, is really just belief, and ALL beliefs are self limiting and serve to reduce the truly infinite to falsely finite".
Ugh! My first response felt so simple pure and clear. When I started to analyze it, confusion and frustration set in. I don't know what Ali is, but my mind keeps saying I must be somewhere!
Yup!...That's pretty typical of what I see with other clients, It doesn't want to be seen for what "IT" is, it has spun around and around all these years feeding on the energy and attention you give it!... Without it, it's just another thought.
"Nothing can exist that is not contained within the present"...

Tomorrow try this....
Observe what happens when waking up in the morning, and just focus on looking for whether there is an "I" that wakes the body and brain, or whether it wakes on its own.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:52 pm

One more thing...
Ugh! My first response felt so simple pure and clear.
It really "IS" that simple!..."The Truth" is clear, shedding the light of truth (on all these thoughts) will prove this to you!

All that is false will burn and fall away... All that remains "IS" the "Truth".
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Morningsunshine
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Morningsunshine » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:43 pm

Hello CamRT,

So this morning there was a loud noise that woke me. There was a short time where there was just awareness and clear space. I thought about you and what you asked me to notice and thought that this must be it? No thoughts of self came in. In the past I have noticed that same clear space when waking up. Before the whole story comes in of who I am and what day it is, etc. there is just an alert awareness that has no story yet. I have to put the pieces together and remember who I am or who I believe myself to be.

I've also been doing the negative thought exercise a lot. When negative or fearful feelings have come up over the past few days I locate the feeling in my body and then trace the thought back and ask "who" is there thinking this? There is nothing behind the thought. It disappears. I love this exercise! It really works.

So I feel like there is a battle going on with thought. I experience this place of pure clear awareness but there is something that wants me to believe that it can't be so simple. There is something that wants to get a hold on something that is familiar and known and that has characteristics. But then I realize that this clear space has been the only constant in this life. It's the only thing that I can consider real because it is the only thing that has consistently been with me throughout my life. It doesn't have characteristics but it has always been there regardless of what this body and personality have been doing. It is the only "solid" thing that there is if you can see what I mean? So why am I still trying to grab at an illusion? Can it really be this simple?

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:27 pm

Hello Ali...
I've also been doing the negative thought exercise a lot. When negative or fearful feelings have come up over the past few days I locate the feeling in my body and then trace the thought back and ask "who" is there thinking this? There is nothing behind the thought. It disappears. I love this exercise! It really works.
More like "what is there"? Embrace the nothing...Go straight in! (when the chance arises) There's nothing to fear! This is the very essence, this infinite space that's always with you...
I experience this place of pure clear awareness but there is something that wants me to believe that it can't be so simple. There is something that wants to get a hold on something that is familiar and known and that has characteristics.
Why hold on? Just let go and just "BE"!....There's no liver (Not the organ)...Just life!
So I feel like there is a battle going on with thought.
This is a battle...They don't call this liberation for nothing ;^)
That is not the Truth must be destroyed<---referring to the connection or indentifaction with the illusion of a Self.
But then I realize that this clear space has been the only constant in this life. It's the only thing that I can consider real because it is the only thing that has consistently been with me throughout my life. It doesn't have characteristics but it has always been there regardless of what this body and personality have been doing.
Beautiful! And it is! ....Like I said above embrace this! ...It's pure, ever present, formless energy...Next time you go out look around and notice the wild life all around us every thing that lives has this. Yet we take for granted every day this precious gift we have until something threatens to take that away...Reach down and feel your heart beat, do you feel it?...Each beat is one beat taken away from "this" time you have left to live!...This is your ONE shot.

Believe it or not there is is two kind's of people... Those that achieve liberation in their lifetime, and those that catch a glimps of "IT" and the moment just prior to ones death... One way or another you WILL get this! ;^)

We simply are not our thoughts...We are blessed with intelligence, imagination and creativity. Yet we need to realize that we are a part of life also, and not live out our lives in our heads!!
So why am I still trying to grab at an illusion?
Sounds kinda silly huh?? :^D

As a matter of fact, let's try this.... Go through the rest of the day imagining there is no "I" or self controlling anything at all just to see what that would be like.  

Without that self, would daily living be different than it is now?
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Cam-RT
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Cam-RT » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:59 pm

Hey Ali ....

Just caught this just wanted to clarify....
and the moment just prior to ones death...
At the moment just prior to ones death...
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Morningsunshine
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Re: Looking for guidance

Postby Morningsunshine » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:10 pm

Hi Cam,

Yesterday life was just flowing without any mental commentary about the self. It was so natural. I felt happy just to go with the flow of life. And I realize that life has always been happening - life is happening with or without a sidelines sportscaster giving a play by play report about what is happening. And in reality, or reality itself is playing the game or just being without a "self"! The trippy thing to realize too is that no one else has a self either. We are just energy moving and flowing.

Something was realized a while back with my son. He is a year old now, and watching him grow has shown me just what you are talking about. He has no self that is directing or controlling his growth and development. It is all happening in its own very naturally. Walking is something he was no wiIlful control over, but it happens. His body knows how to do it. He has no "self" yet but he is growing and developing and living and being! He laughs and is happy and does everything very naturally without any mental commentary!

I feel like I see it. Language is a funny thing. It brought us into an illusion and it seems like it's also the tool to get out of the illusion. But then after that, using language is a hindrance. Now that I keep thinking about the realization I made and trying to convey it to you, I get all lost in words again. When words cannot touch reality. They only leads us there. To use words to describe life is to walk backwards away from the gate...?


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